A/C fuse or relay?
- Thread starter Fla02LS
- Start date
I guess its off to the dealer. Hate that place. I found the relay for a/c clutch. When jumped the compressor will engage but only runs for a minute or so then somehow disengages. Bad sensor? I'm thinking something electrical. If the compressor will run and will blow cold but shut down after a certain amount of time what would that point to? If i turn the car off and let it sit for five minutes and restart, same thing..... compressor comes on, runs for a bit, then shuts off. Also when i hooked a gauge up to the low side port the reading was high.
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
So, the PCM will turn the compressor off if the high side pressure goes too high or too low, the evaporator temperature goes too low, the engine overheats, or idle speed drops too low, or if it's badly misfiring.
None of that matters if you bypassed the AC clutch relay (11-5 under the hood). Bypassing that relay narrows your problem down to a bad or miss-adjusted clutch. My limited experience says that it just needs to be adjusted. You take the front plate off and you'll find that there are a few shim washers on the shaft behind the plate. Take one of those off and reinstall the front plate and you should be good.
My Ranger (same AC clutch) had the symptoms that you describe. I fixed it by removing one of the shims from the clutch.
Please note that the dealer will not change just the clutch. They will insist on changing the AC compressor with the clutch. I don't know if they will be willing to do the air-gap adjustment on your existing clutch before condemning it.
None of that matters if you bypassed the AC clutch relay (11-5 under the hood). Bypassing that relay narrows your problem down to a bad or miss-adjusted clutch. My limited experience says that it just needs to be adjusted. You take the front plate off and you'll find that there are a few shim washers on the shaft behind the plate. Take one of those off and reinstall the front plate and you should be good.
My Ranger (same AC clutch) had the symptoms that you describe. I fixed it by removing one of the shims from the clutch.
Please note that the dealer will not change just the clutch. They will insist on changing the AC compressor with the clutch. I don't know if they will be willing to do the air-gap adjustment on your existing clutch before condemning it.
Thanks for the info, but that raises more questions.
1)I saw in the repair manual there is a section on air gap adjustment. Seems straight forward but what exactly is the function of the "air-gap" and what does an adjustment fix?
2)Is it logical to start replacing part by part a clutch that has 176k miles on it? The price for new parts dont seem that bad so would it make more sense just replacing it? Doesnt the replacement of the clutch require removing the compressor anyway?
3)Brings me to the next question...why the hell wont a dealer replace just a clutch? Is it they dont want to or is it some rule they have? A part is a part and if it needs replacing then what do they care.
4)Dont know if you remember but going back to last July my a/c was acting up where it would be perfectly fine from 35mph+ but would loose its cooling capacity when stopped....is that symtom related to the clutch issue or still pointing to compressor?
5)If my compressor isnt totally shot yet (still blows cold when its in a good mood) could i not just get away with a direct replacement of the compressor and not all the additional parts that seem to go along with the compressor? I see online a new oem compressor is $362, not bad, dont know the labor to install at dealer though. I understand it requires a evac/vac/fill but it shouldnt be that many labor hours.
6)Does a new compressor come with the clutch/pulley/etc attached?
Im kinda looking at this the same way as my tranny. It was going out and instead of replacing part by part i just went with a whole new oem tranny. Im sure a compressor and related parts have a certain lifespan and im sure its near its limit. Im focusing on the compressor and I just think a $1400 job replacing 3/4 of the hvac system seems excessive.
May or may not. I changed out my daughter's (2000 V6 LS) compressor in a couple/3 hours or so. That was with a compressor where I had to swap over the clutch and pulley. With an all inclusive compressor the job would have taken much, much less time. Not really a difficult job, just a pain as you're working over your head, on your back. I would just replace the whole thing. IIRC, you can get a complete compressor (field, clutch, pulley...) for under ~$300.
Where would you suggest? I checked Team Ford and they list a compressor for $362. Wonder if that is a "complete" compressor.
So you replaced just the compressor and not half the parts along with it. Did the repair turn out ok? A/C worked fine after replacement?
I bought the compressor from Team and it wasn't all inclusive. I had to transfer over all the stuff on front. I would trust Rock Auto and probably get the Spectra new all inclusive compressor. Changing out all that stuff on the front was a bear! Her A/C has been blasting cold air since the recharge!
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
1. Without the air gap, the clutch wouldn't be able to disengage.
2. I'd just try the adjustment first. If that didn't do it, then replace the whole clutch assembly.
3. They don't like call backs. Maybe the clutch was damaged by a bad compressor that required too much force to turn. It's safer to them to just replace it all.
4. Yes, could be either.
5. Probably you could. At that mileage, I would still want to replace the receiver/dryer.
6. They usually do from Ford. Probably not so much for aftermarket.
2. I'd just try the adjustment first. If that didn't do it, then replace the whole clutch assembly.
3. They don't like call backs. Maybe the clutch was damaged by a bad compressor that required too much force to turn. It's safer to them to just replace it all.
4. Yes, could be either.
5. Probably you could. At that mileage, I would still want to replace the receiver/dryer.
6. They usually do from Ford. Probably not so much for aftermarket.
My experience is the opposite.
So as it would turn out it didnt work at all yesterday and today the a/c was working perfectly fine. Cant be compressor or refridgerant level, maybe some clutch component. Possibly some kind of short in wiring somewhere. Whatever it is it can work perfectly fine one day and do nothing the next. I'm dropping off at dealer tomorrow to have a thorough diagnostic done. Could be a $40 sensor, could be a wire that needs to be fixed, or could be the clutch. Whats frustrating is the random nature of the issue. The service advisor did say they would do a part replacement on just the clutch or clutch coil but pointed out that with a compressor that has as many miles as it does it doesnt really make sense to put a new clutch assembly on a 176k mile compressor, and i agree. I did call Team Ford and part#2R8Z19V703BA for a compressor does include clutch and pulley assembly. Cost is $412. The cost for the clutch components (clutch, coil, plate) would total around $100. So for $412 i think its worth it to add in a new complete compressor. Again all this depends on whether they can pinpoint a short or sensor or something secondary.
Freakin LS!!!! After dropping $3000 for a new tranny i will damn sure be keeping it for as long as it will last.
Freakin LS!!!! After dropping $3000 for a new tranny i will damn sure be keeping it for as long as it will last.
Reminds me..... Years ago our Sable had a similar problem. Eventually it quit cooling at all. Turned out to be the magnetic field. It was replaced and the A/C worked fine until we traded it in on the 2000 LS.
I would still get that other compressor from Rock Auto. The warranty is better and the unit is considerably less expensive. Assuming you do the hard part.
What is magnetic field? What is the part? Clutch coil? Air gap adjustment?
I plan on going the easy way by having dealer to the "hard" part and they will only allow an install on an oem part. Wont install an aftermarket.
Clutch coil. Roger......
Interesting. That part alone is only $46. Does the compressor have to be removed to replace clutch coil?
Alldata shows removing the compressor. It also shows 1.4 hours labor.
Is Alldata a pay service or a free site? I'd love to know what to expect when a repair is needed.
It doesn't look like a fun job. Check post #27.
http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?t=67407
http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?t=67407
It's a pay service. I have access at LLSOC.
Verdict is in. I think? Dealer says there is a leak in the manifold line. It was low in R134 causing the off and on problems. He explained it wasnt low enough to completely shut off the compressor, but with a low charge depending on the time of day (outside temp) and the workload on engine the clutch would disengage. Something to do with the load on the compressor and lack of R134. I guess that would explain why on hotter days it wouldnt work at all and cooler days it would work sometimes. I told him if that is the case then i'll run my chances that its a slow leak....just having them do a evac/vac/fill and see how that goes.
what does 11-5 mean? Exactly where do you bypass the clutch relay so that the clutch
what does 11-5 mean? Exactly where do you bypass the clutch relay so that the clutch
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
To bypass the relay, unplug the relay and push a wire or bent out paper clip into the relay socket, across the relay contacts. If any part of that is unclear, you probably shouldn't do it. It's dangerous anyway because if the PCM is locking out the AC clutch due to low or high pressure, you will do damage to the compressor.
Here is some general AC knowledge for y'all:
First, R-134 is refrigerant, not Freon, and definitely not "coolant", coolant is mixed with water and circulates between the radiator and the engine to keep engine temperature at a tolerable level
If your compressor is NOT running, your refrigerant pressure will almost always be HIGH. this is why when checking pressure you should always set the climate control to MAX AC and let it run for about 5 min before taking any readings.
A compressor will NOT kick on if the pressure is too low, this has to do with pressure switches in the compressor itself and almost nothing to do with the PCM. Also, even if the gauge reads high, your pressure can still be too low to cycle the compressor (see above info) rule of thumb here is, after checking all electrical connections, add a half can of R-134, following the directions on the can, if the compressor still doesnt cycle, go to the fridge, grab a beer, return to garage while drinking beer, curse loudly, kick tires, throw now empty beer can, and call a professional.
First, R-134 is refrigerant, not Freon, and definitely not "coolant", coolant is mixed with water and circulates between the radiator and the engine to keep engine temperature at a tolerable level
If your compressor is NOT running, your refrigerant pressure will almost always be HIGH. this is why when checking pressure you should always set the climate control to MAX AC and let it run for about 5 min before taking any readings.
A compressor will NOT kick on if the pressure is too low, this has to do with pressure switches in the compressor itself and almost nothing to do with the PCM. Also, even if the gauge reads high, your pressure can still be too low to cycle the compressor (see above info) rule of thumb here is, after checking all electrical connections, add a half can of R-134, following the directions on the can, if the compressor still doesnt cycle, go to the fridge, grab a beer, return to garage while drinking beer, curse loudly, kick tires, throw now empty beer can, and call a professional.
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
I'm sorry, but you are very wrong in this case. There are no pressure sensors inside the compressor. There is one pressure sensor on the LS. It is on the high side of the system. The PCM won't engage the compressor clutch if the high-side reading is too low or too high. The PCM will also not engage the compressor clutch if the evaporator temperature is too low, the engine temperature is too high, or the idle speed is too low. I did explain all that at the start of the thread.
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
I'll see if I can find a picture for you. I still recommend that you not do this.