'84 Mark VII won't start!!!

[AKMKVII]

I purchased an '84 Lincoln Mark VII back in August of 2005. I've been an extremely happy owner until about two weeks ago. The weather here in Anchorage, AK was averaging around -10F then. The car had a few problems starting before the cold snap came. I figured it was mainly the battery, as the car came from Las Vegas. I'd had to jump start it for a few days to get it running. About two weeks ago, the car decided that it would not start. I tried to get it running for about 3 or 4 days before giving up and having it towed to a mechanic. They basically thawed out the car, charged the new battery, did an oil change, and changed a sensor. I picked up the car last week, drove it to my work, and finished up my work day. When I went to start the car, it turned over like a champ, but wouldn't start. I had the car towed back to the mechanic where they took another look at it. Roughly 5 days later, I picked up the car again. I stopped at a gas station, filled up the tank, and drove it to work. After work, I walked to the parking lot and the car wouldn't start again.

I was wondering if anyone out there has had a similar problem. I'm at my wit's end with this car. Any advice would be a major help. To me, it sounds like it's not getting spark, but I'm not a mechanic.

Here is the list of work that has been done so far:

• Changed spark plugs
• Changed plug wires
• Changed ignition coil
• Oil change
• Changed sensor (not sure which one)
• New battery
• Cleaned up distributor (wire brush)

 

[JoshMcMadMac]

What is the voltage at the battery? You first need to make sure your electrical system is up to the task of starting your car. Measure the voltage on the battery as well as the amperage. It also would not hurt to pull codes incase there are other issues that are complicating matter. Make sure that the "AMP" light in your car is connected, as this is in line with the charging system; if it's faulty you will not get a charge to the battery.

 

[NYC LS8]

Water in the fuel? Try some "heet", or 'dry gas' if it's that cold there.

Pull codes.

Check the fuel pressure.

Check for spark.

 

[Frat-man-du]

Sounds like Fuel pump is freezing or going out- bang the gas tank a few times to see if it starts if so replace the pump. If not check fuel pressure.

'Dry gas' is always a good idea in any cold climate.

 

[AKMKVII]

I forgot to mention that i did pour some "heet" in the tank. It was one of the first things i tried. When you turn the key, you can hear the fuel pump working. How well it works is in question. I suppose it could be failing. I'll check everything you guys reccomended. Thanks!

 

[AKMKVII]

I just got off the phone with the mechanic who has been working on my car. From what I understand, the car is flooding out. He reccomended that i pull the injectors and crank it until it fires. I was wondering what you guys think. He told me that they changed a temp sensor, a pressure regulator ?, and did something with the throttle or choke, I don't really remember what. The mechanic also mentioned that they didn't plug in a code reader, as the car is too old to be compatible with their equipment. Anyone know where to find a compatible code reader? It's a 1984 Lincoln Mark VII, 5.0 liter 302.

 

[JoshMcMadMac]

Anyone know where to find a compatible code reader? It's a 1984 Lincoln Mark VII, 5.0 liter 302.

Wal-Mart. Otherwise you can use a multi-meter, or if you are really hard up...a paper clip.

 

[AKMKVII]

Got the car to start. It seems to still have problems though. The engine sputters until it gets to about half throttle. Any thoughts?

 

[OldSchool1]

Got the car to start. It seems to still have problems though. The engine sputters until it gets to about half throttle. Any thoughts?

My 1984 needed a few things:
I had to empty the fuel tank twice to get all of the JUNK GAS and WATER out of it. I bought Dry Gas by the case and normally drive until the tank is empty and then drop in a bottle just before filling up. By the third tank, the fuel was better.

Replaced the battery, positive cable, starter, ignition module relay, and fuel filter and it STILL studdered and stalled until I cleaned the EGR valve and chamber. Unfortunately, after 20 years of mixing exhaust gas with fresh air, the chambers were almost COMPETELY blocked.

 

[Lincolnlov]

Filter?

Unless I missed some posts I didn't see a recommendation for a fuel filter. Might be a cheap fix in this case!
Lincolnlov

 

[OldSchool1]

Unless I missed some posts I didn't see a recommendation for a fuel filter. Might be a cheap fix in this case!
Lincolnlov

It was mentioned in post #9 but it cannot be overstated. The 1984s and 1985s are more fuel sensitive than later models because there are only two injectors instead of eight.

 

[Lincolnlov]

Fuel filter

O.S.
Yep, it sure was! My bad. Must have been your pictures -- distracted me. Just too interesting!
You don't have pictures of that same service performed on the later models do you? Only had my actuator off and it was in reasonably decent condition for 150K so I decided not to tear off the other side.

 

[OldSchool1]

O.S.
Yep, it sure was! My bad. Must have been your pictures -- distracted me. Just too interesting!
You don't have pictures of that same service performed on the later models do you? Only had my actuator off and it was in reasonably decent condition for 150K so I decided not to tear off the other side.

Not yet ... but I still sugest cleaning everything related to the EHAUST GAS RECIRCULATING System.

 

[d14mimo]

Catalytic Converters

I had a similar problem with a 302 in a Mercury Grand Marquis. It was eqipped with California emissions system. This car would not start below 10F. The problem was the catalytic converters were almost completely plugged with a hard white substance. I broke this out with a rod and hammer and it solved the problem. Worth a look.

 

[AKMKVII]

I acquired a compatible code reader. Went through the KOEO and KOER tests. The KOER test gave a fault code of 41, test condition R. I looked up this code in the code reader's manual and it reads as "HEGO (HO2S) sensor voltage low / system lean". Any advice about this would be a huge help.

 

[8494]

I've had the same problem with my 84 MkVII. It seems to be the cold start system and fast idle. Since I have'nt had time to troubleshoot it I now simply depress the accelerator half way when starting the car cold. What was happening was the engine would flood. To start when flooded (just like the carb days) hold foot to the floor on the gas pedal while cranking engine. (may need boost) It always starts (eventually). I also disconnected the EGR electrical connector because the engine would stall anytime without warning at stop lights. Has'nt stalled since. I'll clean the EGR later. Thanks for all your tips!
RT

 

[OldSchool1]

I've had the same problem with my 84 MkVII. It seems to be the cold start system and fast idle. Since I have'nt had time to troubleshoot it I now simply depress the accelerator half way when starting the car cold. What was happening was the engine would flood. To start when flooded (just like the carb days) hold foot to the floor on the gas pedal while cranking engine. (may need boost) It always starts (eventually). I also disconnected the EGR electrical connector because the engine would stall anytime without warning at stop lights. Has'nt stalled since. I'll clean the EGR later. Thanks for all your tips!
RT

You're welcome.
Toronto hun?
Your definition of cold is different from mine. In my definition, a person could shiver and not worry about extremities falling off. When It's -2° F here in Pennsylvania, I keep the Kids home from school. As for your CFI engine, you qualify for an engine block heater up there. You also have condensation issues as the car is cooling down after being used all day.

What have you done to the car since owning it?

 

[8494]

I had owned an 86 LSC a few years back but retired it after 382000km (236840mi). I bought my 84 Mk7 in the spring 2005. I installed tires, complete new single exhaust with cat converter, fixed air suspension (dryer and front air bags/solenoids) replaced radio, tie rods. The rear air suspension now sits high when cold. The dealer who sold me the car replaced battery, regulator, and alternator. The gas guage works intermittently, the odometer stopped working since I disconnected the keyless entry. The dash guages would flash off and on all night after I parked it. I'm going to try the #15 ground wire. (digital dash)...speedo works! The heater core leaks into the passenger compartment when I stand on it, since bypassed I'll fix it in the spring. The power steering pump whines, steering rack leaks. I have replacements. I replaced the air pump twice. The second made even stranger noises than the first. Still running the original external fuel pump. Strange engine knock since changing the oil. I think its a rod but some mechanic friends think its only a lifter. Still runs great. Maybe take a closer look when it gets warmer. I drive the 84 regularly to work since its just a few miles I've been wrenching on cars since 16 so its more of a hobby than anything else. I have a MKVIII as well.
Gotta love these cars!

 

[OldSchool1]

I had owned an 86 LSC a few years back but retired it after 382000km (236840mi).

Let's have a moment of silence for that awsome machine ...

I bought my 84 Mk7 in the spring 2005. I installed tires, complete new single exhaust with cat converter, fixed air suspension (dryer and front air bags/solenoids) replaced radio, tie rods. The rear air suspension now sits high when cold.

That's the condensation issue I mentioned. My lines would freeze untill I refreshed the dryer.

The dealer who sold me the car replaced battery, regulator, and alternator. The gas guage works intermittently, the odometer stopped working since I disconnected the keyless entry. The dash guages would flash off and on all night after I parked it. I'm going to try the #15 ground wire.

Ewww.
Does it have an aftermarket alarm?

(digital dash)...speedo works! The heater core leaks into the passenger compartment when I stand on it, since bypassed I'll fix it in the spring. The power steering pump whines, steering rack leaks. I have replacements. I replaced the air pump twice. The second made even stranger noises than the first.

Air compressor or smog pump? My original air compressor was very quite. You might have to beat it a few times to get it to actually pump air but it was quite I replaced it last month

Still running the original external fuel pump.
Wer're gonna pay something like $200.00 for a new replacement. I just can't seem to catch one of these at the yards.

Strange engine knock since changing the oil. I think its a rod but some mechanic friends think its only a lifter. Still runs great. Maybe take a closer look when it gets warmer.

I use like an oil thinner (Gum Out) before changing the oil in the 1984. Twice in six months, the car has had a brief tick after the change. The tick has gone away within 24 hours each time.

I drive the 84 regularly to work since its just a few miles I've been wrenching on cars since 16 so its more of a hobby than anything else. I have a MKVIII as well.
Gotta love these cars!

 

[8494]

Fun or futility?

Quote:
I had owned an 86 LSC a few years back but retired it after 382000km (236840mi).
Let's have a moment of silence for that awsome machine ...

I did'nt have near the problems with the 86 LSC that I'm having with the 84. I think a lot has to do with how the car was looked after. I'll take a high mileage highway car over a low mileage city car any day.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 8494
The rear air suspension now sits high when cold.
That's the condensation issue I mentioned. My lines would freeze untill I refreshed the dryer.

I hear ya there....

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8494
entry. The dash guages would flash off and on all night after I parked it. I'm going to try the #15 ground wire.
Ewww.
Does it have an aftermarket alarm?
No the alarm is OEM from the factory and it still works!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8494
whines, steering rack leaks. I have replacements. I replaced the air pump twice. The second made even stranger noises than the first.
Air compressor or smog pump? My original air compressor was very quite. You might have to beat it a few times to get it to actually pump air but it was quite I replaced it last month

I have the rack and PS pump, bought at wrecker for next to nothing. I spent the day stripping several MKVIIs and took a couple of armfulls of parts for less than $100.00

Still running the original external fuel pump.
Wer're gonna pay something like $200.00 for a new replacement. I just can't seem to catch one of these at the yards.

Nothing really special about that fuel pump. Can substitute a modern one if required from what I can see. The manual says CFI uses two fuel pumps. One on the frame and one in the tank. I find this hard to beleive.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 8494
Strange engine knock since changing the oil. I think its a rod but some mechanic friends think its only a lifter. Still runs great. Maybe take a closer look when it gets warmer.
I use like an oil thinner (Gum Out) before changing the oil in the 1984. Twice in six months, the car has had a brief tick after the change. The tick has gone away within 24 hours each time.

Thats what my mechanic friends say as well although the sound is more of a knock than a tick but it has'nt gotten any worse in the last six months of regular driving. I really beleive a beaing shell in a rod has spun or is worn. I'll try some of the oil thinner suggestions and if that don't work or If I get bored enough I'll replace the motor with a newer HO motor. The body is in good shape.

I see you have an obsession (collection) of your own. Nice!
Keep the shiney side up.
RickT

 

[8494]

Miserable contraptions

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8494
whines, steering rack leaks. I have replacements. I replaced the air pump twice. The second made even stranger noises than the first.
Air compressor or smog pump? My original air compressor was very quite. You might have to beat it a few times to get it to actually pump air but it was quite I replaced it last month

No I mean the smog pumps been changed twice. Still is'nt quiet enough for my me.
I've seized the suspension air pump many times from overwork when the front was leaking air. I've since replaced it since I did'nt want to chance any more aggravation from the AS.

 

[OldSchool1]

...
No the alarm is OEM from the factory and it still works!!
...

My 1984 does not have a factory alarm but the LSCs do. Try this:
Secure the vehicle. Using the door key, open the passenger door. The factory alarm sounds

I have the rack and PS pump, bought at wrecker for next to nothing. I spent the day stripping several MKVIIs and took a couple of armfulls of parts for less than $100.00

It's like burried treasure! I always run out of money before I run out of parts to buy.

...
Nothing really special about that fuel pump. Can substitute a modern one if required from what I can see. The manual says CFI uses two fuel pumps. One on the frame and one in the tank. I find this hard to beleive.

I have hands on with the fuel filter and have seen the frame mounted fuel pump right next to it.

I don't have hands on with the tank mounted pump and have only ~read~ that there is one in the 1984. I cannot confirm or deny that it even exists.

...
I'll try some of the oil thinner suggestions and if that don't work or If I get bored enough I'll replace the motor with a newer HO motor.
...

Most people are against the engine flush fluids. I like it simply because I get more CRAP out of the drain plugs when I use the flush as appossed to when I don't. Only my 1990 and my 1988 no longer get flushed before an oil change because I've done it enough times that they drain nicely anyway. On our 84's, IMO, an engine flush and a radiator flush can do only two things:
help or hurt My engine hasn't fallen out yet and the radiator still holds fluid. Ofcourse, now that I've said something, I'll walk out to the car and the 302 will be laying on the ground wimpering and the heater core will be on the back seat laughing at me.

I see you have an obsession (collection) of your own. Nice!
Keep the shiney side up.
RickT

Thank you.
Jerry "2ManyMarks" has even more (Mark VIIs) than me. I only have six.

 

[8494]

Fuel Pumps

Just for information purposes
top two are 84 CFI low and high pressure fuel pump
bottom is regular FI fuel pump (found at rockauto.com)

 

[OldSchool1]

Just for information purposes
top two are 84 CFI low and high pressure fuel pump
bottom is regular FI fuel pump (found at rockauto.com)

I've grown so accustomed to looking for parts in the yards that I sometimes completely forget to do parts searches online.

Low pressure in the tank and a HIGH pressure, frame mounted pump under the rear passenger's window. Thank you VERY much for the knowledge 8494.

Are these items that you've needed to replace/repair in the past?

 

[8494]

Pita

I had the fuel tank replaced on one of my MKVII's a few years back because the seams were leaking. I asked the tech if I should replace the FI fuel pump which is in the tank. His reply was "it could last a week or a few more years" so I left it as is. Lo and behold a year later the fuel pump stopped working (during the winter) so what's the moral of the story? If you drop the tank for repair REPLACE THE FUEL PUMP!
Reconditioned gas tank (http://www.gastankrenu.com/): approx 350.00 including labor
drop tank (again) and replace fuel pump: 500.00+ including labor
fuel pump only approx 250.00
hope this helps someone