2006 gen 2 3.9 LS Loud ticking from PS Valve cover after Changing lower intake gaskets and cooling system components... 90k miles my only car... :(

[lookinglass]

Just bought the car a month ago, wanted to fix cooling system issues before they appeared. I* have a 2006 gen 2 3.9l in my ls with 90k. I used carb cleaner to clean the intake ports and i don't think anyleaves were dropped in the motor... it's running with a little vaccum leak somewhere and a loud clicking slapping from the ps front of the engine... wtf did i do????

 

[04 LSE]

I had a similar sound coming from the front of the motor... Something I did caused the timing chain tensioner to over-extend (I won't get into what I did to cause it) I thought I had broken one of the timing chain guides. I thought the same thing that I may have dropped something in the intake, I
bowered a camera and looked in all the cylinders. Took it apart to replace everything. What I found everything looked fine! The only thing I found was the chains were very tight, oil pressure pushed the tensioners out and made the chain very tight. Because these tensioners have a ratcheting system on them that doesn't allow them to retract, they stay where the oil pressure last pushed them to.
Mine made...what I thought was a loose/slapping chain sound that went away somewhat as it warmed up.
Turned out, as the motor warmed up the chain grew longer and quieted down some.
Mine is a 2004 3.9 with around the same mileage as yours. It is still apart, it was on the way back together until some medical issues got in the way, but I'm pretty sure that is what my problem was.

OK, I will tell you what I did... about ten years ago I was doing all cooling fix issues, valve cover, water pump, thermostat plastics, and hoses. Well, sometime earlier a transmission shop somehow bent the lower Harmonic balancer which was making the belt squeak. So I was going to replace it at the same time, I broke the bolt the... Old Timers Way (Pre Over Head Cams) by putting a socket and a breaker bar on the bolt and hitting the starter. It made an awful loud crack when it broke loose. So my guess is all the slack went out of the chains and the tensioners pushed out and locked the chain tight! I still may be wrong about all this, only time will tell for sure! All I know for sure is that... the chains were very tight, especially the P/S

I am not saying that is what your issue is.
If I had known what a Pain it was going to be to get the timing cover off... and the years it was in my way in the garage, I would have sold it! A friend would always tell me to sell it, I thought it was going to make a good retirement project!!
I still may have other issues as the oil pan had a very thin powdery-looking film much like a trans pan has in it sometimes. I'm assuming it was from the chains and guides as I drove it like that for a while!

 

[lookinglass]

I had a similar sound coming from the front of the motor... Something I did caused the timing chain tensioner to over-extend (I won't get into what I did to cause it) I thought I had broken one of the timing chain guides. I thought the same thing that I may have dropped something in the intake, I
bowered a camera and looked in all the cylinders. Took it apart to replace everything. What I found everything looked fine! The only thing I found was the chains were very tight, oil pressure pushed the tensioners out and made the chain very tight. Because these tensioners have a ratcheting system on them that doesn't allow them to retract, they stay where the oil pressure last pushed them to.
Mine made...what I thought was a loose/slapping chain sound that went away somewhat as it warmed up.
Turned out, as the motor warmed up the chain grew longer and quieted down some.
Mine is a 2004 3.9 with around the same mileage as yours. It is still apart, it was on the way back together until some medical issues got in the way, but I'm pretty sure that is what my problem was.

OK, I will tell you what I did... about ten years ago I was doing all cooling fix issues, valve cover, water pump, thermostat plastics, and hoses. Well, sometime earlier a transmission shop somehow bent the lower Harmonic balancer which was making the belt squeak. So I was going to replace it at the same time, I broke the bolt the... Old Timers Way (Pre Over Head Cams) by putting a socket and a breaker bar on the bolt and hitting the starter. It made an awful loud crack when it broke loose. So my guess is all the slack went out of the chains and the tensioners pushed out and locked the chain tight! I still may be wrong about all this, only time will tell for sure! All I know for sure is that... the chains were very tight, especially the P/S

I am not saying that is what your issue is.
If I had known what a Pain it was going to be to get the timing cover off... and the years it was in my way in the garage, I would have sold it! A friend would always tell me to sell it, I thought it was going to make a good retirement project!!
I still may have other issues as the oil pan had a very thin powdery-looking film much like a trans pan has in it sometimes. I'm assuming it was from the chains and guides as I drove it like that for a while!

Hey man i appreciate the reply. i will post a video tonight when i get home from work... it sounds right from where the tensioner is also... how hard of a job is it to replace? I can't remove my engine and if a shop will do it for a 1000 i can maybe swing that.. Oh and I've broken harmonic balancers that way before haha. sorry to hear that about your health... I also have no codes and the engine is not misfiring weird.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

The primary chains also have tensioners, and "ratchet" in the same way the secondary tensioners do.

Because these tensioners have a ratcheting system on them that doesn't allow them to retract, they stay where the oil pressure last pushed them to.

I don't think it works that way.

It seems that (maybe) the secondary chains are stretched, and/or there is an issue with the passenger side cam phaser.

 

[04 LSE]

As 04_sport_LS states it could be the secondary chain tensioner that possibly could be bad. That would be a pretty easy diagnosis and repair. Just pull the Valve Covers.
As far as the rest of the job. years ago, I was quoted $2500-$3000 from a couple of shops, and even more now. I bought a tool kit from someone on eBay... the Lincoln, LS Jaguar timing chain tool kit. The only things in the kit that worked were the bridge for the cams, the Pin Stop for the crankshaft to keep it from turning, and the shims. The other tools they showed plugging into the cam phaser...on the Lincoln would not engage with anything.
I'm not sure if 04 Sport is talking about the lower long-chain tensioners, but most definitely that is how they work. There's a paw and teeth on the plungers that do not allow them to retract unless Oil Pressure does it somehow internally. If that is true then mine was so tight oil pressure could not release it.
The most difficult part of the job was moving (to the side) the PS and A/C comp only inches... but allowed you to get the bolts on the bracket some Brain Fart designed to hold the pumps. That bracket bolts to the Eng. block and the timing cover. On the Alternator, a bolt and nut were a pain to get to. Also, my Crank Sensor was frozen in place had to destroy it to remove it. (Dremel tool with flexible shaft)
This Link was very helpful...

Timing Components: Service and Repair — 2004 Ford Thunderbird V8-3.9L VIN A Service Manual | Operation CHARM

Detailed repair manual for the 2004 Ford Thunderbird V8-3.9L VIN A.

charm.li

 

[joegr]

...
I'm not sure if 04 Sport is talking about the lower long-chain tensioners, but most definitely that is how they work. There's a paw and teeth on the plungers that do not allow them to retract ...

My wife had a Cadenza and its chain tensioners were the same way. This is possibly quite common.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

As 04_sport_LS states it could be the secondary chain tensioner that possibly could be bad.

Actually... I said the secondary chain was stretched, and/or a passenger side cam phaser issue.

If the secondary tensioners are all the way "out"... then the secondary chain is stretched.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

And if the tensioner is too far "out"... It might be at a failure point.

2 ways to find out. Fix it... or keep driving it. You'll find out one way or the other.

 

[lookinglass]

Im juast

My wife had a Cadenza and its chain tensioners were the same way. This is possibly qui

And if the tensioner is too far "out"... It might be at a failure point.

2 ways to find out. Fix it... or keep driving it. You'll find out one way or the other.

I just don't want to do more damage to it. Would a used motor be a easier alternative? I have never done as timing chain but i have done many timing belts, I'm not a pro anything but if anyone knows how hard the job is or has done this job before i would really appreciate the help my life depends on this car.....

 

[lookinglass]

My wife had a Cadenza and its chain tensioners were the same way. This is possibly quite common.

Will i cause more damage by driving it? are these interference engines? I see engines for around $1500... maybe i just a new engine and rebuild the old one for the future?

 

[lookinglass]

I just feel like shit because i don't know why this happened all of the sudden as I'm doing repairs. a hit to the pride and my life depends on this car. i just got her a month ago and i just got a job fixing cell phones in the city, and i saved for 2 years for this car. I was working oil change places and hotels while doing computer school. I just graduated last week.

 

[lookinglass]

would a used motor just be a better and cheaper idea? i can set them for around 1500k, i recon it would be as normal swap like any other engine???

 

[lookinglass]

As 04_sport_LS states it could be the secondary chain tensioner that possibly could be bad. That would be a pretty easy diagnosis and repair. Just pull the Valve Covers.
As far as the rest of the job. years ago, I was quoted $2500-$3000 from a couple of shops, and even more now. I bought a tool kit from someone on eBay... the Lincoln, LS Jaguar timing chain tool kit. The only things in the kit that worked were the bridge for the cams, the Pin Stop for the crankshaft to keep it from turning, and the shims. The other tools they showed plugging into the cam phaser...on the Lincoln would not engage with anything.
I'm not sure if 04 Sport is talking about the lower long-chain tensioners, but most definitely that is how they work. There's a paw and teeth on the plungers that do not allow them to retract unless Oil Pressure does it somehow internally. If that is true then mine was so tight oil pressure could not release it.
The most difficult part of the job was moving (to the side) the PS and A/C comp only inches... but allowed you to get the bolts on the bracket some Brain Fart designed to hold the pumps. That bracket bolts to the Eng. block and the timing cover. On the Alternator, a bolt and nut were a pain to get to. Also, my Crank Sensor was frozen in place had to destroy it to remove it. (Dremel tool with flexible shaft)
This Link was very helpful...

Timing Components: Service and Repair — 2004 Ford Thunderbird V8-3.9L VIN A Service Manual | Operation CHARM

Detailed repair manual for the 2004 Ford Thunderbird V8-3.9L VIN A.

charm.li

Thank you soooo much man!!!!

 

[lookinglass]

As 04_sport_LS states it could be the secondary chain tensioner that possibly could be bad. That would be a pretty easy diagnosis and repair. Just pull the Valve Covers.
As far as the rest of the job. years ago, I was quoted $2500-$3000 from a couple of shops, and even more now. I bought a tool kit from someone on eBay... the Lincoln, LS Jaguar timing chain tool kit. The only things in the kit that worked were the bridge for the cams, the Pin Stop for the crankshaft to keep it from turning, and the shims. The other tools they showed plugging into the cam phaser...on the Lincoln would not engage with anything.
I'm not sure if 04 Sport is talking about the lower long-chain tensioners, but most definitely that is how they work. There's a paw and teeth on the plungers that do not allow them to retract unless Oil Pressure does it somehow internally. If that is true then mine was so tight oil pressure could not release it.
The most difficult part of the job was moving (to the side) the PS and A/C comp only inches... but allowed you to get the bolts on the bracket some Brain Fart designed to hold the pumps. That bracket bolts to the Eng. block and the timing cover. On the Alternator, a bolt and nut were a pain to get to. Also, my Crank Sensor was frozen in place had to destroy it to remove it. (Dremel tool with flexible shaft)
This Link was very helpful...

Timing Components: Service and Repair — 2004 Ford Thunderbird V8-3.9L VIN A Service Manual | Operation CHARM

Detailed repair manual for the 2004 Ford Thunderbird V8-3.9L VIN A.

charm.li

How hard is this to do? i have only replaced timing belts..

 

[lookinglass]

I also broke the fuel rail pressure sensor tightening the egr pipe nut. IDK if that could cause this?

 

[04_Sport_LS]

Will i cause more damage by driving it? are these interference engines? I see engines for around $1500... maybe i just a new engine and rebuild the old one for the future?

Well... as an afterthought, If the tensioner has the secondary chain too tight, it can potentially cause issues with the valve springs, causing binding and valves not properly closing.

There are shims under the rocker arms (cam followers), to adjust valve lash. Shimming the cam followers is a bit tricky and time consuming for the experienced mechanic. Let alone a novice.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

And yes... the 3.9 is an interference engine.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

Will i cause more damage by driving it? are these interference engines? I see engines for around $1500... maybe i just a new engine and rebuild the old one for the future?

You won't find a "new" (complete engine). Same with the transmission. The factory parts are drying up.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

i recon it would be as normal swap like any other engine???

Uhh... not exactly. The engines were mounted to the cradle, and installed from the bottom up.

It can be done from the top, but will be more difficult.

 

[04 LSE]

When I had trans issues I wanted to do it myself... was told I needed a special tool to align the torq converter to the motor/trans. The shop that did mine still had problems, they claimed to have The Tool, but twice I picked it up and it vibrated badly.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

And before this goes any further, I would have a title search and odometer check. 90k miles seems a bit low for all these problems.

Home | VehicleHistory

Pay the $6.50 (or whatever it is now) and have the title run. If the odometer has been rolled back... there are steps you can go through... to be compensated.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

When I had trans issues I wanted to do it myself... was told I needed a special tool to align the torq converter to the motor/trans. The shop that did mine still had problems, they claimed to have The Tool, but twice I picked it up and it vibrated badly.

Sounds like they didn't get things lined up properly. It's pretty easy to "tweak" the flex plate during install, if not paying attention.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

I'm not sure if 04 Sport is talking about the lower long-chain tensioners, but most definitely that is how they work

No. I'm talking the secondary chains at the cams... not the primary chains under the main cover.

 

[04 LSE]

The PIC with all chains on is how it looks right now if you want more Pic's

 

[04_Sport_LS]

Yeah... I hope I never have to dive in that deep. Mine has 283,000 on it, and very few problems have popped up.

The suspension rebuild was the biggest, but was worthwhile.

Guess I have been lucky (or blessed).