2001 Lincoln LS 3.9 V8 Fuel Pump question?

AmsterDutch

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Called tow truck company today at work and finally had my car towed back to my house, we had a blizzard in MN yesterday and wasn't able to get it towed..Just arrived home from work and saw that my car was sitting in the drive way ...jumped in the car and she popped right off...the car is running and sounding great...both times the car died in the last few weeks I was driving about 40 mph due to bad winter road conditions ...not sure if there is a connection to the 40 mph and fuel pump dying or if the fuel pump is on its way out ...the fuse and relay seem fine but will be changing them out when I install new pump tomorrow? This car has me spooked to drive it right now...don't want to end up on the side of the road ...one last detail weather conditions were freezing rain mixed with wet snow yesterday ...can someone describe how jet pump works when the car is turned off while pumping gas ...always wondered what triggers the pump if the car is not on? Thanks
 
The jet pump doesn't do anything if the electric pump is not running. It is "powered" by the movement of fuel from the electric pump.

There is no involvement when filling the tank. Fuel from the filler first fills the passenger side sump of the fuel tank. Once that sump is full, gasoline pours over into the sump of the driver's side. When both sumps are full, gasoline continues on to fill the tank above the sumps.
 
The jet pump doesn't do anything if the electric pump is not running. It is "powered" by the movement of fuel from the electric pump.

There is no involvement when filling the tank. Fuel from the filler first fills the passenger side sump of the fuel tank. Once that sump is full, gasoline pours over into the sump of the driver's side. When both sumps are full, gasoline continues on to fill the tank above the sumps.
Thanks Joegr ...I guess I thought it was more complex ...sounds like a really simplistic system Lincoln came up with when you describe it like that...thanks again
 
The jet pump doesn't do anything if the electric pump is not running. It is "powered" by the movement of fuel from the electric pump.

There is no involvement when filling the tank. Fuel from the filler first fills the passenger side sump of the fuel tank. Once that sump is full, gasoline pours over into the sump of the driver's side. When both sumps are full, gasoline continues on to fill the tank above the sumps.
What's your opinion on this Joegr ...would adding on extra length with the fuel injector hose apply to much stress on fuel pump causing the pump to over heat or something? Just really strange after sitting over night it started right up and works fine again...I mean is this fuel hose a technical measurement and must be a certain length? I'm probably over thinking this just don't want to buy another fuel pump within at least three years after installing the new one tomorrow...any thoughts are much appreciated
 
Extra hose won't bother it, as long as it is the same diameter or larger as the stock hoses.

I think that overheating of the fuel pump itself is unlikely, unless the tank was nearly empty (less than a gallon remaining). If it happens again, you might check on the REM.
 
Extra hose won't bother it, as long as it is the same diameter or larger as the stock hoses.

I think that overheating of the fuel pump itself is unlikely, unless the tank was nearly empty (less than a gallon remaining). If it happens again, you might check on the REM.
Will do! thanks Joegr
 
Will do! thanks Joegr
Dutch - do you have Forscan? Joegr recommended this to me about a year ago. I finally hooked it to the car this week. (Yes, I do have a lot of inertia and grass growing under me). Anyway this software (you need to download, install it for free and buy a device to connect your OBD2 port to your laptop. I bought an ELMconfig for $30 or 40) is quite good. It reads just about everything in the car and reports it all back. Will show DTCs that do not turn on CEL. It can also scope live data and will tell you fuel pressure etc. Quite remarkable for an almost free system.
I'm actually using it for a similar issue to what you've got. I finally reinstalled my rebuilt engine and hooked everything up. I expected to start it and drive it away but not so fast. It starts but after a few seconds it sputters and stalls like it's not getting gas. I'm learning a little about how the fuel system works and know enough that the fuel pump must be working since it starts (friend calls it 'choke mode') when switch to 'On' causes a couple spurts from pump to pressurize the fuel lines. But then it stalls and I think the pump at this point is not working and might be because it might not be getting input from the crankshaft position sensor, I dont know yet.
Point is the forscan quickly identified problem to the fuel pump area by producing a code P1641 which says 'Primary fuel pump circuit malfunction'. Now I need to determine exactly what that malfunction is. I've checked the fuse and the relay, both good. The fuel pump is brand new. The PCM should be telling it to run after start so I need to figure out how to check for proper inputs to it.
Wish me luck. Oh and I wish you luck. this system does not recommend using while you're driving of course. BUT I think it would be OK for it to be hooked up and configured to monitor some parameters while you're driving - place the computer on passenger seat or floor, maybe tape the OBD2 connector wire up away from your feet - and if/when it dies again you may have an indication as to why it did?
 
Dutch - do you have Forscan? Joegr recommended this to me about a year ago. I finally hooked it to the car this week. (Yes, I do have a lot of inertia and grass growing under me). Anyway this software (you need to download, install it for free and buy a device to connect your OBD2 port to your laptop. I bought an ELMconfig for $30 or 40) is quite good. It reads just about everything in the car and reports it all back. Will show DTCs that do not turn on CEL. It can also scope live data and will tell you fuel pressure etc. Quite remarkable for an almost free system.
I'm actually using it for a similar issue to what you've got. I finally reinstalled my rebuilt engine and hooked everything up. I expected to start it and drive it away but not so fast. It starts but after a few seconds it sputters and stalls like it's not getting gas. I'm learning a little about how the fuel system works and know enough that the fuel pump must be working since it starts (friend calls it 'choke mode') when switch to 'On' causes a couple spurts from pump to pressurize the fuel lines. But then it stalls and I think the pump at this point is not working and might be because it might not be getting input from the crankshaft position sensor, I dont know yet.
Point is the forscan quickly identified problem to the fuel pump area by producing a code P1641 which says 'Primary fuel pump circuit malfunction'. Now I need to determine exactly what that malfunction is. I've checked the fuse and the relay, both good. The fuel pump is brand new. The PCM should be telling it to run after start so I need to figure out how to check for proper inputs to it.
Wish me luck. Oh and I wish you luck. this system does not recommend using while you're driving of course. BUT I think it would be OK for it to be hooked up and configured to monitor some parameters while you're driving - place the computer on passenger seat or floor, maybe tape the OBD2 connector wire up ,away from your feet - and if/when it dies again you may have an indication as to why it did?
All Good stuff Heyjewel, I'm at my wits end with this ...I started the car today and after starting fine good clean strong start up I go out about 10 minutes later and find it stopped running again...not sure if its the fuel pump yet ...waiting for the new module to arrive this afternoon ...I did however put a new pump in the existing module and still NO GO if I let it sit a while it will start and then sputter and die...I hear the pump turn on and it sounded like it was running but the engine quickly dies ....checking spark plugs next....crossing fingers that its something electrical on CARTER BRAND MODULE and NOT THE CAR lol! I'll keep you posted when I throw in new module...and yes I need to get forscan asap
 
Extra hose won't bother it, as long as it is the same diameter or larger as the stock hoses.

I think that overheating of the fuel pump itself is unlikely, unless the tank was nearly empty (less than a gallon remaining). If it happens again, you might check on the REM.
I once again heeded your advice and rebooted the PCM/REM and the car started and is running as normal again ....priceless info ...thanks Joe!
 
I once again heeded your advice and rebooted the PCM/REM and the car started and is running as normal again ....priceless info ...thanks Joe!

A temporary solution at best. As the PCM relearns, the problem(s) will become apparent again.
For the record, my advice generally is not to reset the PCM to try and fix things. It only temporarily hides some problems.
 
A temporary solution at best. As the PCM relearns, the problem(s) will become apparent again.
For the record, my advice generally is not to reset the PCM to try and fix things. It only temporarily hides some problems.
So what I hear you saying is that the car is going to eventually die on me again even though it's running like a champ right now? Why?
 
A temporary solution at best. As the PCM relearns, the problem(s) will become apparent again.
For the record, my advice generally is not to reset the PCM to try and fix things. It only temporarily hides some problems.
How many miles do I have to drive it before I know I'm in the clear?
 
There's no exact miles or time. It depends on the different conditions that you experience on your drives. There are some drive cycles that you can take that will ensure that it happens sooner rather than later, but I don't want to get into those. We had a guy on here that was crazy about them...
 
There's no exact miles or time. It depends on the different conditions that you experience on your drives. There are some drive cycles that you can take that will ensure that it happens sooner rather than later, but I don't want to get into those. We had a guy on here that was crazy about them...
I think you misunderstood this situation ...I did fix the fuel issue by installing OEM connector and new fuel pump assembly module...the problem was the PCM and/or the REM was not communicating with the engine correctly due to my car running previously with the wrong specifications because of makeshift fuel connector ...had it properly repaired with factory specifications where original fuel pressure should be ...hence after installing proper equipment and OEM parts the PCM needed to relearn the proper specifications I would imagine
 
...the problem was the PCM and/or the REM was not communicating with the engine correctly due to my car running previously with the wrong specifications because of makeshift fuel connector ...

Sorry, it doesn't work that way...
Fuel pump drive is instant by instant, and not learned. The PCM knows the fuel pressure at the fuel rails.

Anyway, I do hope your problem is gone. I just don't expect it to be. Time will tell.
 

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