0-125 in my LS

yeah rocket inspired me to start modding it.... and my tuner says he wouldn't go over 75 jets with a WOT switch because he thinks it dangerous... but I can clearly see the car can handle 100 jets from other members and was hoping for some tuning tips
 
Morbid Intentions said:
yeah rocket inspired me to start modding it.... and my tuner says he wouldn't go over 75 jets with a WOT switch because he thinks it dangerous... but I can clearly see the car can handle 100 jets from other members and was hoping for some tuning tips
Click to expand...

Shoot me a PM with your questions.
 
After owning both a '02 and '05 LS i dont think the 1st gen. owners know what their missing. Aside from the throttle by wire the performance difference is huge in my opinion. And its not just the performance there are alot of little things that make the 2nd gen. so so much more enjoyable. I've owned much more powerful and faster cars but the LS another story. My one run up to 135 mph i was amazed at how smooth the car handled at such high speeds. Its not the fastest, best handling most luxurious car but its probably the best all around package of all those attributes for its time. I've been in an old 5.0 mustang and some T/A's and at around 100 mph they started to shake and feel somewhat unstable. The LS feels the same at 100 mph than it does at 45 mph. My wife recenty took my car on a week long vacation and loved it, didnt want to give it back. Another thing with the SST, if your at say 50-55 mph and throw it into 4th it just seems to pull forever at a nice steady pace. Anyway, welcome to the 2nd gen. club. Enjoy.
 
Fla02LS, wasn't your Gen1 a V6? I thought it was... so its kinda stupid to compare the Gen1 V6 vs. the Gen2 V8.

I've drivin both Gen1 and Gen2 V8s and unless there next to each other its kinda hard to tell the difference in power. TBW is the immediate difference...not a good one.

Cool video. Have to say it seems slow watching it...but watching a video isn't the same. Notice it caught 4th mid 80s, shifting kinda early actually. She'll move better pushing the redline.
 
your a braver man than me. I drove stupid when i was younger, now im smarter and drive slower, i don't want to die. Good video though, really showcases the smoothness. Hope it wasn't too busy out when you were going.
 
yea i've driven a buddies 04 sport, looks just like nyc lsc's. wasn't surprised. just a little more luxurious on the inside.
 
02LSE96LSC91SE84TC said:
Watched it again and honestly think that was a low 15 sec run at best. Launch was weak.
Click to expand...

my best run to date is 14.7 @ 97MPH with a 2.4 60ft on a semi cool engine keep in mind nothing is done to my car

my norm runs mostly look like this

60ft: 2.3
1/8: 9.7 @ 74MPH
1/4 14.9 @ 95MPH

so where I'm pulling the same trap speeds as your modded 1st gen with my stock 2nd gen and my 60ft is significantly worse.... about 2-3 tenths

I would say there is a big jump between 1st and 2nd gen 242CI's... I would say stock my car is a mid 14 second car if I ever could launch worth a damn

add a set of DR's and a dyno tune and low 14's wouldn't be out of the question... my credibility is high in this area of discussion as my mustang frequented the track every weekend last year

if you judge cars with an ass dyno you will look like an ass in the end... just sitting in a car at WOT will not send off little guages in your kidneys that magically tell you how much RWHP and lbs torque a specific car has.... riding in a 300C it felt alot slower than my LS, but I think anyone can agree it's quite the contrary
 
Morbid Intentions said:
my best run to date is 14.7 @ 97MPH with a 2.4 60ft on a semi cool engine keep in mind nothing is done to my car

my norm runs mostly look like this

60ft: 2.3
1/8: 9.7 @ 74MPH
1/4 14.9 @ 95MPH

so where I'm pulling the same trap speeds as your modded 1st gen with my stock 2nd gen and my 60ft is significantly worse.... about 2-3 tenths

I would say there is a big jump between 1st and 2nd gen 242CI's... I would say stock my car is a mid 14 second car if I ever could launch worth a damn

add a set of DR's and a dyno tune and low 14's wouldn't be out of the question... my credibility is high in this area of discussion as my mustang frequented the track every weekend last year

if you judge cars with an ass dyno you will look like an ass in the end... just sitting in a car at WOT will not send off little guages in your kidneys that magically tell you how much RWHP and lbs torque a specific car has.... riding in a 300C it felt alot slower than my LS, but I think anyone can agree it's quite the contrary
Click to expand...




At your mod level DR's would be worthless. I ran a 14.2 with Custom tune and custom CAI and didn't have any traction issues whatsoever off the line.

Also the Gen2's do trap higher than the Gen1's most of the time but ET matters more to most. I would rather have a 14.4@97 than a 14.7@97. Also where Gen1's make up for it is in the launch. A Gen1 LS will usually 60' better than a Gen2, even if that Gen 2 is pushing more power. Even with a tune the TBW still leaves something to be desired.

Also, Jason goes to the track quite frequently so his "credibility" is pretty high here, especially with the LS platform. I will keep things short and sweet by saying that you are barking up the wrong tree with Jason (02LSE).

What Year and model of Mustang do you own? What mods? What ET's and traps are you seeing?
 
Morbid Intentions said:
my best run to date is 14.7 @ 97MPH with a 2.4 60ft on a semi cool engine keep in mind nothing is done to my car

my norm runs mostly look like this

60ft: 2.3
1/8: 9.7 @ 74MPH
1/4 14.9 @ 95MPH

so where I'm pulling the same trap speeds as your modded 1st gen with my stock 2nd gen and my 60ft is significantly worse.... about 2-3 tenths

I would say there is a big jump between 1st and 2nd gen 242CI's... I would say stock my car is a mid 14 second car if I ever could launch worth a damn

add a set of DR's and a dyno tune and low 14's wouldn't be out of the question... my credibility is high in this area of discussion as my mustang frequented the track every weekend last year

if you judge cars with an ass dyno you will look like an ass in the end... just sitting in a car at WOT will not send off little guages in your kidneys that magically tell you how much RWHP and lbs torque a specific car has.... riding in a 300C it felt alot slower than my LS, but I think anyone can agree it's quite the contrary
Click to expand...

I've trapped 98 several times.

Never doubted any of your times...only said that the video posted wasn't a 14sec pass and you obviously weren't at the track being timed so how could you argue different. Not calling your car slow, just saying its probably not its best sprint.

I'm very aware of the power difference between the 2Gens. The less than .2 I'm running slower than the fastest Natural Gen2s isn't exactly something your gonna feel as much as many act like you can. Everyone exagerates the power difference between the two. I chime in when it comes up. Fla02LS had a V6 Gen1 and then boasts the Gen2 V8 as so much superior...no sh1t.

Not sure who your calling a ass but I don't believe in butt dynos either, just don't think the 2 cars feel a whole lot different under WOT. I'll clarify...I didn't just drive a Gen2 V8, I ran it several times at the track.

Have you driven a Gen1 V8?
 
1st gen will do 145~150 mph
2nd gen 125 program limited

2nd gen VVT 270 hp and new second gear ratio and new final drive to 3.58.
The tbw in the 06 seems drastically improved from the early 03 I drove.
So the 2nd gen felt stronger all the way up the ladder.
They could have punched this engine out to a 4.3 but they had to stay smaller than the Jag and Aston Martin. Corporate decision.

I own both
I just had the rear gear and bearings done on my 1st gen 00 ls8 sport and changed to 3.58 gears and it runs very smoothly

Get
 
02LSE96LSC91SE84TC said:
I've trapped 98 several times.

Never doubted any of your times...only said that the video posted wasn't a 14sec pass and you obviously weren't at the track being timed so how could you argue different. Not calling your car slow, just saying its probably not its best sprint.

I'm very aware of the power difference between the 2Gens. The less than .2 I'm running slower than the fastest Natural Gen2s isn't exactly something your gonna feel as much as many act like you can. Everyone exagerates the power difference between the two. I chime in when it comes up. Fla02LS had a V6 Gen1 and then boasts the Gen2 V8 as so much superior...no sh1t.

Not sure who your calling a ass but I don't believe in butt dynos either, just don't think the 2 cars feel a whole lot different under WOT. I'll clarify...I didn't just drive a Gen2 V8, I ran it several times at the track.

Have you driven a Gen1 V8?
Click to expand...

it's just from the few posts that I've seen from you I thought I saw a pattern and it reminded me of the V6 S197 guys getting all butthurt over the new edge GT drivers.... it just looked like you were trying to shift the sand into people thinking that both cars are equally fast... which isn't true, because a 2nd gen 3.9L LS will inch out a new S197 V6 mustang in a heartbeat but lose by about 2 cars against a new edge GT
(I moderate a mustang forum... so bear with me on reading things into different posts lol, they tend to be a riley bunch)

now that I know where you are coming from I would go back to owning a gen 1 LS in an instant... why? electronic throttle body... the pause it gives me when I punch it isn't what I like in a car... but that isn't to say an SCT flash on the drums won't take care of that and then some, I'm just debating on whether I should do it or not

but from what I have seen from research and track visits a 1st gen LS will turn low 15's with the possibility of dipping into 14's on a perfect run....
a 2nd gen will turn high 14's and in retrospect hit mid 14's on a perfect run

and I do agree with you on the not too big of a difference department.... but if you analize both cars from a tuner perspective if you have 30 more horses at the motor... that 30BHP after going through the shafty 5 speed auto and IRS is going to shell out MAYBE 10-20 more RWHP as a package.... and coupled with the torque advantage a 2nd gen will outlaunch a 1st gen (with a competent driver lol) and inch away through every gear... although the overall feel will not change

and as per punk city... my 2nd gen has hit 135 in a race agaist a RWD trailblazer SS (only lost by a car lol) so I think you are a little off on your MPH limit
 
Morbid Intentions said:
it's just from the few posts that I've seen from you I thought I saw a pattern and it reminded me of the V6 S197 guys getting all butthurt over the new edge GT drivers.... it just looked like you were trying to shift the sand into people thinking that both cars are equally fast... which isn't true, because a 2nd gen 3.9L LS will inch out a new S197 V6 mustang in a heartbeat but lose by about 2 cars against a new edge GT
(I moderate a mustang forum... so bear with me on reading things into different posts lol, they tend to be a riley bunch)

now that I know where you are coming from I would go back to owning a gen 1 LS in an instant... why? electronic throttle body... the pause it gives me when I punch it isn't what I like in a car... but that isn't to say an SCT flash on the drums won't take care of that and then some, I'm just debating on whether I should do it or not

but from what I have seen from research and track visits a 1st gen LS will turn low 15's with the possibility of dipping into 14's on a perfect run....
a 2nd gen will turn high 14's and in retrospect hit mid 14's on a perfect run

and I do agree with you on the not too big of a difference department.... but if you analize both cars from a tuner perspective if you have 30 more horses at the motor... that 30BHP after going through the shafty 5 speed auto and IRS is going to shell out MAYBE 10-20 more RWHP as a package.... and coupled with the torque advantage a 2nd gen will outlaunch a 1st gen (with a competent driver lol) and inch away through every gear... although the overall feel will not change

and as per punk city... my 2nd gen has hit 135 in a race agaist a RWD trailblazer SS (only lost by a car lol) so I think you are a little off on your MPH limit
Click to expand...

Gen2 V8 owners can really bash on the Gen1 performance and again I will jump in on that as My Gen1 will match and even beat most Gen2s. Not saying stock to stock...just with the usual mods done the Gen1s seem to pick up more from those mods and pick up some of that 28HP difference leaving little difference. I may have lost what mine felt like stock as the drop in K&N and exhaust went on first month, followed by the different intake a few months later. I ran 14.5 several times like that before tune. Since the tune I've ran 14.4 5-6 times and 14.5 I've hit at least 40 times. Not to many LSes even Gen2s are doing that. I don't like to call cars factory freaks and assume any Gen1 can do the same as mine with the proper launch or maybe just me driving:p. Few LS owners take their car to the track and believe it or not when times are posted Gen1s don't seem to be far off track from the Gen2s.

The only thing a Gen2 has in the launch departmant is the 3:58s. The throttle cable seems to 60' better. I 2.1 most every time now many low. Another Gen1 owner on here has 2.09 60'...hes on 3:58s. BTW I'm still on 3:31s.
 
funkcity said:
1st gen will do 145~150 mph
2nd gen 125 program limited

2nd gen VVT 270 hp
Click to expand...
According to a reliable source, 1st Gen Sports have no speed limiter; 1st Gen non-sports are limited to 133mph, as are most 2nd Gen LSes. The speed limiter is lower on cars that were delivered with the H-rated tires.

I think you have a typo in there- 2nd Gen V8s have 280hp stock.
 
Morbid Intentions said:
it's just from the few posts that I've seen from you I thought I saw a pattern and it reminded me of the V6 S197 guys getting all butthurt over the new edge GT drivers.... it just looked like you were trying to shift the sand into people thinking that both cars are equally fast... which isn't true, because a 2nd gen 3.9L LS will inch out a new S197 V6 mustang in a heartbeat but lose by about 2 cars against a new edge GT
(I moderate a mustang forum... so bear with me on reading things into different posts lol, they tend to be a riley bunch)

now that I know where you are coming from I would go back to owning a gen 1 LS in an instant... why? electronic throttle body... the pause it gives me when I punch it isn't what I like in a car... but that isn't to say an SCT flash on the drums won't take care of that and then some, I'm just debating on whether I should do it or not

but from what I have seen from research and track visits a 1st gen LS will turn low 15's with the possibility of dipping into 14's on a perfect run....
a 2nd gen will turn high 14's and in retrospect hit mid 14's on a perfect run

and I do agree with you on the not too big of a difference department.... but if you analize both cars from a tuner perspective if you have 30 more horses at the motor... that 30BHP after going through the shafty 5 speed auto and IRS is going to shell out MAYBE 10-20 more RWHP as a package.... and coupled with the torque advantage a 2nd gen will outlaunch a 1st gen (with a competent driver lol) and inch away through every gear... although the overall feel will not change

and as per punk city... my 2nd gen has hit 135 in a race agaist a RWD trailblazer SS (only lost by a car lol) so I think you are a little off on your MPH limit
Click to expand...



I asked a few questions in post #12. What year and trim of Mustang do you have? Whats mods and what ET's?

Also, if the Gen2 LS starts out with 28 more hp at the crank it will start with 24 rwhp more being that the parasitic loss is the same on the Gen1 and Gen2 (or close enough to be negligible) you will only calculate the difference between crank and rwhp. You may want to recheck your math a little.

I do not remember when my Gen2 was stock anymore either but I still do not think they will 60' any better than the Gen1's with an equal driver. In stock form that TBW REALLY is a mess to deal with which really hurts the Gen2's on the launch. Now of course that will be made up by the end of the track and then some.

Jason has the fastest N/A Gen1 LS (or maybe that other guy might be? Who knows...) and I have the fastest Gen2 LS while both N/A and with power adder. When we raced he always barely nailed me off the line with the 60'. Then a little while later I would pull past him and ease ahead a few car lengths by the end of the 1320.
 
ILLS said:
I asked a few questions in post #12. What year and trim of Mustang do you have? Whats mods and what ET's?
Click to expand...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cx4n3yq55Zc


04 mustang GT
BBK shorty headers, O/R prochamber, Magnapacks, 75mm TB/plenum, 4.10 gears, alternative auto tune....

13.9 @ 99MPH was the best for me... but the car is capable of around 13.6 IMO

I'm thinking about leasing an LS3 corvette come spring.... but it depends on how I feel at the time, I jump in and out of speed and luxury kicks and it will come down to whichever aspects I am feeling when the time comes
 
ILLS said:
At your mod level DR's would be worthless. I ran a 14.2 with Custom tune and custom CAI and didn't have any traction issues whatsoever off the line.

Also the Gen2's do trap higher than the Gen1's most of the time but ET matters more to most. I would rather have a 14.4@97 than a 14.7@97.
Click to expand...


you are failing to see the point of a trap speed... 14.7 @ 97MPH is due to my 2.4 60ft, when a car spins at the line it creates inertia to the tires that produce a higher trap... the trap, while showing your top end also negates any traction issues and lets you know what your car "should" run... on norm I trap around 95MPH which is a mid 14 second trap speed... as per 02LS's trap and ET

for instance my friends stage 5 cobalt SS ran a 14.4 @ 119MPH.... traction issues? lol yeah, but that trap speed says he has a C6 vette capability if he felt like setting his car up to hook at the line.... my LS goes from 2.2 60's to 2.5 60's..... and my 2.2 60's trap the same as our friend here (95MPH), henceforth cutting my short time down with tires would yield the exact same times as 02LS

in closing...while ET is important, if you have a crappy launch you need only look at your trap to see what you should be running
 
Morbid Intentions said:
you are failing to see the point of a trap speed... 14.7 @ 97MPH is due to my 2.4 60ft, when a car spins at the line it creates inertia to the tires that produce a higher trap... the trap, while showing your top end also negates any traction issues and lets you know what your car "should" run... on norm I trap around 95MPH which is a mid 14 second trap speed... as per 02LS's trap and ET

for instance my friends stage 5 cobalt SS ran a 14.4 @ 119MPH.... traction issues? lol yeah, but that trap speed says he has a C6 vette capability if he felt like setting his car up to hook at the line.... my LS goes from 2.2 60's to 2.5 60's..... and my 2.2 60's trap the same as our friend here (95MPH), henceforth cutting my short time down with tires would yield the exact same times as 02LS

in closing...while ET is important, if you have a crappy launch you need only look at your trap to see what you should be running
Click to expand...

Quite aware a higher trap can be had from a poor 60', as is ILLS..we're not failing to see anything.

Again I regularly trap higher. The 14.401@95.96 is impressive considering the low trap speed. My previous best was 14.423@97.78. Trapping high 97 was the norm (several 98 passes). If your suggesting you can beat the times of my slightly modded Gen1 with you completely stock Gen2, go for it.

14.401.jpg


14.423.JPG
 
Morbid Intentions said:
you are failing to see the point of a trap speed... 14.7 @ 97MPH is due to my 2.4 60ft, when a car spins at the line it creates inertia to the tires that produce a higher trap... the trap, while showing your top end also negates any traction issues and lets you know what your car "should" run... on norm I trap around 95MPH which is a mid 14 second trap speed... as per 02LS's trap and ET

for instance my friends stage 5 cobalt SS ran a 14.4 @ 119MPH.... traction issues? lol yeah, but that trap speed says he has a C6 vette capability if he felt like setting his car up to hook at the line.... my LS goes from 2.2 60's to 2.5 60's..... and my 2.2 60's trap the same as our friend here (95MPH), henceforth cutting my short time down with tires would yield the exact same times as 02LS

in closing...while ET is important, if you have a crappy launch you need only look at your trap to see what you should be running
Click to expand...



Morbid, I know very well how trap speed works. I race all the time and own a performance shop. I am sorry to say but I have driven the Gen2 LS to its full potential and it does not have a 14.4 in it like you may think while in stock form. The reason I would rather take the 14.4 @97 vs the 14.7 @ 97 is that it shows that car #1 is being driven closer to its potential than car#2...or that car #2 just get crappy 60' times which kills ET. In the case of the Gen2 LS it is the 60' times that hurt. Another for instance. I have ran a best of a 13.3@106.5 with my LS while on the spray. I had a terrible 60' for the power I was putting down. The reason for that actually was severe traction issues. I actually needed DR's and a LSD rear. Now anyone that knows anything about trap vs ET while also factoring in the launch could see that it was good for 12's easily once it actually had traction and could be driven to the potential that you see in the trap speed.

With your case I seriously doubt you are having traction issues with your stock Gen2. If you are then that is either the worst track in the country (they DO know what VHT is, right?) in prepping or you better stop racing in the rain. :D ;) Just a little humor. Either way the trap will most match the ET in that case as there isn't much to cause a big difference between potential seen in the trap and the ET ran.

When a vehicle is being driven near its potential you will usually see a slightly lower trap than when its spinning the tires on the launch. Usually a person spinning their tires on the launch will have a deceptively high trap, which is probably why you are even seeing 97mph traps. Trap is a guide, but even it is not an absolute. You have to look at the launch, the shifting, and so on to really understand what is going on in the run.
 
you guys are worse than the mustang guys lol

#1 argueing over dyno numbers is a pointless arguement because every car shows different numbers.... let me guess you run dynojet drums to see those numbers? 10-20RWHP ON A MUSTANG DYNO, which being a tuner you should know that is fairly accurate

#2 this thing started with stock for stock the 2nd gen is faster... which anyone in their right mind will agree to.... now it got switched around to a modded 1st gen being faster than a 2nd gen, and a my car is faster than yours" deal? lol make up your minds

#3 with that being said a dyno tuned,CAI, and exhaust 2nd gen vs a dyno tuned, CAI, exhaust 1st gen what would be faster down the 1/4 mile?

exaaactly... while it isn't alot of difference it makes a difference when you put them next to each other, ]

the simple fact that this arguement got brought on?
other 2nd gen owners got to you in the past so you have to chime in on every second gen topic related thing and talk about your car to prove it worthy.... deny it all you want, I've been doing the automotive forum thing for a looong time.... with that being said I will leave you guys to your forum ;)
 
Morbid Intentions said:
you guys are worse than the mustang guys lol

#1 argueing over dyno numbers is a pointless arguement because every car shows different numbers.... let me guess you run dynojet drums to see those numbers? 10-20RWHP ON A MUSTANG DYNO, which being a tuner you should know that is fairly accurate

#2 this thing started with stock for stock the 2nd gen is faster... which anyone in their right mind will agree to.... now it got switched around to a modded 1st gen being faster than a 2nd gen, and a my car is faster than yours" deal? lol make up your minds

#3 with that being said a dyno tuned,CAI, and exhaust 2nd gen vs a dyno tuned, CAI, exhaust 1st gen what would be faster down the 1/4 mile?

exaaactly... while it isn't alot of difference it makes a difference when you put them next to each other, ]

the simple fact that this arguement got brought on?
other 2nd gen owners got to you in the past so you have to chime in on every second gen topic related thing and talk about your car to prove it worthy.... deny it all you want, I've been doing the automotive forum thing for a looong time.... with that being said I will leave you guys to your forum ;)
Click to expand...

Ummm you brought up my car, I didn't.:shifty:.I didn't start the comparison, you did.

I just said the video looked slow and wasn't a 14sec. run. That seems to have gotten you worked up a little, I'm just responding.

The Gen1 vs. Gen2 comes up fairly often. The power difference is exaggerated, thats all I'm really saying. I passed on buying a Gen2 for a new truck last year.

Also.... you post like a Mustang owner.:p.Not me.
 
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