ABS issue when braking, dealer charging $3000+

dtwizzy

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Hi, community I am at a point where I think my time with the LS is OVER! I have an issue with the ABS that started 5/30/15 while on highway felt a slight vibration pulled over noticed a scrubbing noise and vibration in the pedals. This progressively got worse, went to local mechanic got a free brake inspection and brakes were good as well as rotors all the way around! Mechanic advised me to go to the Ford dealer to have an diagnosis on the ABS system, went there spent $99.95 and they stated that there is an issue with the wheel sensor on the right rear. They also stated that the suspension is in need of repair as well which I'am aware of and in no rush to fix at the moment, that is visible in the photos with the white lithium grease to eliminate noises and squeaks. In the photo below the yellow arrow is where the sensor is the red arrow is the axle (I think). Dealer stated that the wheel sensor(yellow arrow) is contacting the gear or the axle(red arrow). This is causing the ABS motor to turn on and do what its designed to to which cause the grinding noise with the brakes and vibration in the pedals. The wheel speed is incorrect which interferes with the sensor and the ABS due to the contact. The whole job per the Lincoln(Ford) Dealer is $3000 to fix all the issues honestly the value of the car isnt even that if it is, its not by much!

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Has anyone had this similar issue and YES I used the search function but nothing detailed to this specific issue, I have been quoted $90 to replace the sensor and labor, I have been putting a lot of money into this car and its reaching a boiling point! I need this car to drive to work it is my main car so Im not sure if replacing the wheel sensor and eliminating the contact will fix the issue with the ABS motor turning on! I need to drive this car at least until I can trade it in, and when I do I need a fix so that its not evident that there is an issue so I can get the most trade in value. Need some help and advice if anyone has experienced this same issue. What can be done!
2001 LS V8 Non-Sport

Thank You!

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I've seen a lot of the tone rings (the thing with the teeth that is contacting the sensor) crack or get chipped teeth. You would fix that by replacing the CV axle. That coupled with the sensor would eliminate anything at the wheel related to the ABS engaging. After that it would be the ABS controller or something somewhere else.

In the front the wheel speed sensor is buried into the wheel hub itself.

Usually ABS engagement feels like the break pedal is pulsing without moving. Sometimes it can feel like the car is shuddering. Your symptoms sound different from what I would associate with ABS engagement. Plus if that wheel speed sensor was bad then the traction control or advancetrac would be kicking in when going around turns or accelerating, etc. The same wheel speed sensor is used for both systems.

It sounds more like you got a hard spot in the rotor or that the rear brake isn't disengaging properly. Does the car smell like something is burning when you hear this noise? Could be as simple as the rear caliper is locking up.
 
It sounds more like you got a hard spot in the rotor or that the rear brake isn't disengaging properly. Does the car smell like something is burning when you hear this noise? Could be as simple as the rear caliper is locking up.

Thank you for your advice, there is not any smell when I apply the brakes at all! From what I can hear and feel the rubbing grinding noise is coming from the front left not the rear! I will have the front rotor replaced as well when I replace the sensor!

Also I have noticed that when I turn the wheel to the right and apply the brake this noise/feeling in the brake pedal is heard but not when turned to the left and apply the brake!
 
... Dealer stated that the wheel sensor(yellow arrow) is contacting the gear or the axle(red arrow). This is causing the ABS motor to turn on and do what its designed to to which cause the grinding noise with the brakes and vibration in the pedals. ...

Well, let's see if they are right about this. If they are, then you can make your car drivable for $0 (but without ABS and AdvanceTrac) while you figure out what to do. Unplug the wheel speed sensor on that wheel. This will turn the ABS and AdvanceTrac (or traction control if that is all you have) lights on, and turn those systems off. Better to have the ABS off, than to have it working incorrectly. If you unplug the sensor and the problem goes away, you know the dealer is correct. Others on hear have gotten the rear bearings and other parts replaced much cheaper. The dealer can only replace the whole assembly.
 
Well, let's see if they are right about this. If they are, then you can make your car drivable for $0 (but without ABS and AdvanceTrac) while you figure out what to do. Unplug the wheel speed sensor on that wheel. This will turn the ABS and AdvanceTrac (or traction control if that is all you have) lights on, and turn those systems off. Better to have the ABS off, than to have it working incorrectly. If you unplug the sensor and the problem goes away, you know the dealer is correct. Others on hear have gotten the rear bearings and other parts replaced much cheaper. The dealer can only replace the whole assembly.


I think that you are correct, on my way to work the ABS and the Traction lights came on and there was not any vibration in the pedal no noise either. There was no scrubbing when I applied the brake, this happened while I was driving so I didnt disconnect anything at all. Once I stopped and turned the car off and started it back up again the lights were off and the issue returned again with the vibration and noise. I will disconnect the sensor and see how it goes. I did find a post on how to do that so thats easy enough to do. What if any potential problem could there be with driving without the sensor on, I know I would need to have this solved before the winter with the snow so that the traction control works.
 
My car did the same thing when the moronic dealer broke a wheel speed sensor on the front. Full ABS actuation would work on that wheel during any braking, causing the car to pull the other way with dramatically increased stopping distances. If the advancetrac and abs lights came on, it disabled and drove normal but I didn't like waiting for that. I pulled the fuse/relay for ABS (as the dealer should have done before returning the car) so that it was safe to drive until I got a new hub (once again, this was the front). Hopefully you just need the sensor and not the axle.

I was going to suggest checking for ebrake drag too until you got the abs/AT lights
 
My car did the same thing when the moronic dealer broke a wheel speed sensor on the front. Full ABS actuation would work on that wheel during any braking, causing the car to pull the other way with dramatically increased stopping distances. If the advancetrac and abs lights came on, it disabled and drove normal but I didn't like waiting for that. I pulled the fuse/relay for ABS (as the dealer should have done before returning the car) so that it was safe to drive until I got a new hub (once again, this was the front). Hopefully you just need the sensor and not the axle.

I was going to suggest checking for ebrake drag too until you got the abs/AT lights


Where was this fuse/relay located? Iam not familiar with fuse/relays but if I can just pull the fuse and stop the ABS that would be GREAT rather than having to jack up the car to disconnect the sensor! I have no ebrake drag at all that was checked by the Ford/Lincoln dealer on 6/2/15
 
remember the good old days, when the legend was printed on the damn cover of the fuse box!!! lol
 
At least its printed in the owners manual. I would have let him look for it himself but I wanted to be sure it was abs MOTOR since I was going from memory a year ago. I confirmed it was and spoon fed the info since I was there anyway.
 
Had a Taurus SHO where I just pulled the ABS motor/pump fuse to fix the same issue. In my case rust had built up under the tone rings and cracked a few. Drove fine other then the ABS light coming on since the motor couldn't be powered. Just had to be your own ABS system instead :)
 
Where was this fuse/relay located? Iam not familiar with fuse/relays but if I can just pull the fuse and stop the ABS that would be GREAT rather than having to jack up the car to disconnect the sensor! I have no ebrake drag at all that was checked by the Ford/Lincoln dealer on 6/2/15

Update: I was able to pull the fuse/relay from under the hood and it worked, the ABS light is on as well as the Traction control light and now there is normal braking. I do have a slight scrubbing noise when no brake is applied I think this may be the rotor or something that was affected by the ABS issue. I will have the sensor replaced and will update later.
 
Could simply be rust on the rotor rubbing the caliper bracket or a normal amount of rotor rubbing on the pad.

I'd be hesitant to call it normal. Just remember its now capable of 4 wheel skid (where steering is almost useless) and it won't do anything to combat traction loss or keep itself on the path it thinks you intended.
 
Just remember its now capable of 4 wheel skid (where steering is almost useless) and it won't do anything to combat traction loss or keep itself on the path it thinks you intended.

In other words you have activated.... "FUN MODE!"... assuming you don't wrap it around a tree or hug a wall first :)
 
Man,,,to listen to you guy's talk it's a wonder anybody survived driving before ABS or traction control or advance trac :)
After over 50 years of driving i have never been in an accident that any of that stuff would have helped.
common sense and knowing how to drive without computer aid results in a better driver more aware of the road and conditions.
The LS is only the second car i have had with ABS.
 
remember the good old days, when the legend was printed on the damn cover of the fuse box!!! lol

Legend... psht, ok. You and your fancy terms. "Chocolate box map" works for me

Man,,,to listen to you guy's talk it's a wonder anybody survived driving before ABS or traction control or advance trac :)

Just taking a moment to say AdvanceTrac is more than just safety; it's vector control. In a hard turn, it squeezes the two inside wheels' brakes to help rotate the car. In that regard, a human can't compete without 4 individual brake pedals and 4 feet to match. When talking engine swaps, people like to make jokes about me wanting to retain ABS/AT
 
Man,,,to listen to you guy's talk it's a wonder anybody survived driving before ABS or traction control or advance trac :)

but its a completely different story when you have been driving a car with all of its systems working, then all of the sudden your driving the same car with half of those system disabled... it would be very easy to slightly over drive into a corner and where the car would make corrections for you, it no longer does, this could make it very easy to wreck out a car when it no longer handles like it did yesterday.
 
Man,,,to listen to you guy's talk it's a wonder anybody survived driving before ABS or traction control or advance trac :)
After over 50 years of driving i have never been in an accident that any of that stuff would have helped.
common sense and knowing how to drive without computer aid results in a better driver more aware of the road and conditions.
The LS is only the second car i have had with ABS.
Its more like a don't sue me statement since you asked how to disable it. I think its even safer than running it enabled and broken. It seems like you can handle it but you can get quite a wide array of intelligence and self responsibility on the interweb so... disclaimer added :)

I agree with Frank and Loud about it possibly being a surprise when it does not do something, even if its subtle.

To play devils advocate, there are certain situations I hate the damn system and its hands down more dangerous to have it enabled when you have to take off quickly and its wet/sandy/snow-ice. You're in trouble if you forget to switch it off to get going, and in even more trouble if you forget to enable it again once you are going. The system has saved me once as I was turning on to a black ice covered on-ramp. I was going slow enough I likely would not have got hurt, but could have screwed up the car a bit.
 
To play devils advocate, there are certain situations I hate the damn system and its hands down more dangerous to have it enabled when you have to take off quickly and its wet/sandy/snow-ice. You're in trouble if you forget to switch it off to get going, and in even more trouble if you forget to enable it again once you are going. The system has saved me once as I was turning on to a black ice covered on-ramp. I was going slow enough I likely would not have got hurt, but could have screwed up the car a bit.

I think a limited slip diff would help a lot of those situations where you try to get going on slippery road, it kicks in, and you just crawl out into the intersection, but I haven't down that mod yet so I can't speak from experience. I just never break both rear wheels loose without trying. Maybe both wheels will break loose with an LSD almost as easily as a one wheel peel. I dunno. Hopefully I'll know within the next few months
 
It certainly wouldn't hurt (but the disabling of throttle is a killer). I intended to do this change a few years back so I already have the limited slip part. I just need a parts list to rebuild the rest of the diff. At this high mileage, I probably need a new (or less used) ring and pinion too so I may never get to it. I started looking at all of it again recently, including the 8.8 swap. My consensus ended up being, do nothing, or do the 8.8 swap with 4.10 gears and the custom mount bracket. I'm looking at picking up a certified EB Flex within the next year so I don't want to spend much on the LS... just enough to keep it running decent. I hope to keep it and get to it though since the Flex is in no way a replacement... that's the plan anyway.
 
Yes, if you are over 50 you have driven a car without the "stupit-proofing" as I call it. I would venture to say that most people under 30 have likely never really driven a car that didn't have at least ABS, and quite a few have probably not driven a car that didn't have some sort of stability control since their early 20s. Since both ABS and some sort of stability control are required on any 2011 model year or newer vehicle, it's likely only enthusiasts and gear heads will ever experience having to drive a car without all that stuff.

Still, nothing beats the thrill of a power slide :)
 
It scares me that anybody would drive on a public road in such a way that these driving "aids" would be needed on a regular basis.
i could be the car coming the other way !!
It's all kinda in a way defeating Darwin's law :)
 
It scares me that anybody would drive on a public road in such a way that these driving "aids" would be needed on a regular basis.
have you been out on a public road lately? there seems to be only three types of people out there...

the vast minority are good drivers
the vast majority is terrible drivers
then there is the group of people who just drive dangerously all the time...

so since most of the time I cant tell who is which one most of the time, I prefer most cars to have these babysitters in and working.



they probably don't need to be used on a regular basis, but chances are sooner or later there might be that one time when you actually could really use them, and well with them not working...

I would way rather have them working perfectly and never need them vs needing them once for the first time in your life and them not being there...


another way of looking at it, is the LS is now old enough and can be found for cheap enough that they are can commonly be owned by high school students or even as first cars. and well just about anybody can solve for X when the equation is a fairly fast(er) car + zero experience = X

sure you have had decades of experience, not everybody else has...
 

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