Will this work - amp question

[myfirstlincoln]

Since I installed the new head unit I've been reading a lot about audio and am on a bit of an audio kick. I currently have a Pioneer 760 watt amp powering 2 12's and was wondering if I could also power another 350 watt amp (to power two 6x9 in the readeck) using the stock battery or would I need to upgrade the battery? I have infinity speakers in the doors which sound great but I hear nothing from behind me because the location of the rear speakers so plan to buy some infinity 6x9s for the deck.

 

[Onefreshls]

well knowing these cars are funny with electric i would up grade the battery and you can either do a alternator upgrade or put a 5 fared cap that will help. y dont you just buy a 5 channel amp and use that. jl makes a good one call the 900hd

 

[marcredd]

5 farad??? That is completely overzealous based on what the total wattge for those two amps come to. Personal preference, do the big 3. But the amount of power that is truly going to go to those 6x9's is small enough that you truly may be able to run it all off of your existing charging system.

 

[Onefreshls]

i just say the 5 farad cap bc i get it at a great price

 

[Lownslowlsc]

5 farad??? That is completely overzealous based on what the total wattge for those two amps come to. Personal preference, do the big 3. But the amount of power that is truly going to go to those 6x9's is small enough that you truly may be able to run it all off of your existing charging system.

x2

Ditch the cap idea and look into the "big 3". If you're going to upgrade the elec at all that should be more than enough. A bigger, badder battery is never a bad idea but doubt you'll need one with that setup..

 

[marcredd]

If you do some research online Fresh, you will learn a lot about how caps work and how to determine what size to use(if one still even wants to use one at all).

 

[Onefreshls]

yes all a cap does is store power so when the bass hits it does not draw off the alternator. big battery yes its good but battery only start's the car the alternator runs the car. so if i was to do anything besides the big 3 i would see if i could get the alternator amped up

 

[marcredd]

But there are effieciency implications if the size of the cap is not matched ideally with the power output of the application it is being matched with. Biggest is not always best. A properly functioning battery is part of the chain regarding a sound electrical system. It is not just an "as long as it starts everything is cool" item. Ask any long term LS owner who has experienced unusual electical issues. The battery comes up at times as the culprit but is often discounted or even overlooked.


edit....and yes I agree the primary function of the battery is to start the vehicle.

 

[BlackLS06]

A battery starts the vehicle but also helps to regulate voltage.

A bad battery will wreak havoc on the LS. My amp has more power than those two amps you are installing combined and i run the factory electrical with no cap or big 3 upgrade and on 2 gauge wire.

 

[myfirstlincoln]

I was thinking of a 5 channel but I read that it's best to have a dedicated amp for just your subs and I also see that that 5 channel JL is around $800...I'm not looking to spend nearly that much - I like the amp I have powering the subs and for about $60 I can get a matching 2 channel to power the 6x9's...and if it works with the stock battery and alternator, even better.

 

[BlackLS06]

Most people gut the factory subs and just add a sub and amp in the rear.

 

[myfirstlincoln]

I removed my factory subs and just planned to run one amp and subs, but like I said, I want more sound from behind me since the sound from the rear speakers seems to get trapped (my seats sit pretty far back) between the back of my front seats and rear seats. Plus I figured I'd try something different

 

[jinx8402]

I'm going to suggest something else:

Skip the rear speakers all together. Music was recorded, mixed and mastered to come from two speakers in front of you. All you're doing with rear speakers is bringing the image and staging backwards, away from the way it was intended to be listened to. I haven't had rear speakers in my cars for the last 8+ years and couldn't be happier.

Obviously, everyone has their own opinions on the subject, but just wanted to give you a reason not to spend the money to upgrade speakers/amps. Also, if you plan on watching movies in 5.1, then disregard my "opinion" as obviously nice rear speakers would be a must.

 

[Thirdworlddoug]

i run around 1000 rms on stock charging system and see no problems unless im really really railing the system i then see a little dim (most recently tygas song rack city lol)...i have had a cap installed before but after having one for about half a year i can say i will never ever put one in another car i own again. ive fried my last amp because of it. most installers ive ran across also would agree on going different routes when trying to get more power or constant power for your system.

Also when putting speakers in the rear deck just look out for the sun eatting away at the surrounds...but the stock charging system should have no problem handling that set up

 

[myfirstlincoln]

Thanks everyone...so if I do go with this setup, are there any tricks to running 2 amps? I looked online and see that I can splice the remote wire. I also see that some companies make dual amp install kits...

Is setting this up really as simple as:

Running 8 gauge wire from the battery to the 350w amp. Running 8 gauge wire back to the battery to ground. Running rca's from the back of unit to amp.

Running 4 gauge wire from the battery to the 760w amp. Running 4 gauge wire back to the battery to ground. Running rca's from back of unit to amp.

From what I've read, an inline fuse as close to the battery as possible is best. Do I need a fuse for both 4 gauge and 8 gauge? Any tricks to connecting the grounds or power since I"ll have 2 running to the same place?


After more reading and searching, I see a distribution block might be my best bet...something like?????
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1488523

 

[BlackLS06]

Yeah youll need a power distribution block or a battery terminal adapter either will work.

I like each power cable to have its own dedicated fuse plus the block can have a fuse as well.

 

[1LoudLS]

Is setting this up really as simple as:

yes, it really can be as easy as running power and ground wires directly from the battery to each amp.

Do I need a fuse for both 4 gauge and 8 gauge?

yes, unless you dont want both of the wires protected, and want to risk the chance of fire.

Any tricks to connecting the grounds or power since I"ll have 2 running to the same place?

yes, put ring terminals on the wires, then remove the bolt that hold the battery terminals tight , then put bolt through both ring terminals for each battery terminals. then tighten

After more reading and searching, I see a distribution block might be my best bet

can make it look nice and neat and will easily cover fusing both wires

something like this would work great
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_36170_Xscorpion-MANL3024P.html

 

[Onefreshls]

yea Stinger makes really good stuff and when your buying your wire try and get oxygen free if you can.

 

[myfirstlincoln]

So I ordered my amp, wire, dist. block, and rear deck speakers. I currently have a new sub box, some decent Pioneer subs, and a decent Pioneer amp. As soon as the other stuff shows up I plan to install and I'll probably post some pics for those interested. I have off Monday so I may tackle this project then.

I'm using KnuKnonceptz wire and dist block as they seem to be a fair price for decent quality - we'll see when it arrives.

One quick question - Everyone says to ground the amps to the battery. Do you mean actually to the battery post itself or ground it to the bolt that the battery uses as a ground?

 

[msgtusmc]

Ground = < 1 ohms of resistance where ever you get it, if battery ground reads that use it, if not clean all connections or replace wire/terminals.
I have taken all my alternaters to a shop who upgraded them to MARINE, used on boats, alternators of much higher capacity. I also installed Odessey batteries in all vehicles with as much as 1100 CA. Never have electrical problems with any electrical upgrades.
My laternators all required new belts because of pully size changes. Can't have to much controlled power, electrical or HP !!!

 

[1LoudLS]

Do you mean actually to the battery post itself or ground it to the bolt that the battery uses as a ground?

either will do the trick as they are both ground points.

personally i would ground to the battery terminal, just like the positive wire.

then i would use a small piece of extra scrap wire to "double up" the factory ground wire (from the neg terminal of the battery to the bolt in the body, just like the factory battery ground) then you have 33% of the big three done.

and if you still have a foot or two left over, you can do the same to ground the motor to the body, then you will have 66% of the big three done. its the last 34% that is expensive and a pain in the @ss to do...

 

[silverbucket]

For what its worth: I replaced all of my speakers with infinity speakers, the two in the back door and the two in the rear deck are powered by a 4 channel JL amp. I also have a a JL12w6, powered by a JL mono amp.I haven't done the big 3 upgrade, I have a battery from o'reilly's, and no cap. no issues with the battery being drained, or anything like that. The only down side is sometimes depending on the song my lights will dim just a bit when the bass hits hard. My buddy works at a shop installing systems, and he says the big three upgrade should take care of that.

 

[myfirstlincoln]

A few updates as I spend the last 4 hours working on wiring.

1. KnuKonceptz wire seems to be pretty damn good stuff. Very thick, very flexible and fairly easy to work with. I haven't had power to anything yet which is obviously the true test but quality seems great.

2. KnuKonceptz set screws are a total pain in the A$$. First of all, the 4 gauge set screws were too large to fit into the power and ground slots on my amp so I had to grind them down (luckily I used my dad's bench grinder so it only took a minute and it looks clean). They are very beefy and I get that they are probably for much higher powered systems than mine, but a couple millimeters off the sides and the ends and it would have fit perfect. I'm also a little concerned that since they are so bulky, the ground and power are very close. They're secure so I don't see them moving or ever touching, but I could probably only fit the width of a car key/piece of cardboard between them if that makes sense. Also, the 0 gauge set screw is wayyyyy too small for their 0 gauge wire - took me forever to get the wire into the set screw.

3. The KnuKonceptz dist block looks to be great quality. I like how the fuses work and I also really like their "compression fittings." It was super easy to set up.

4. I got some infinity 6x9 speakers for the deck and I ran into another problem. I couldn't just mount them on the rear as the bars that run from the magnet to the cone were out to far so the speaker wouldn't sit flush. The bars (I don't know what they're called) hit the sides of the openings and prevented the speaker from falling into place. I needed to raise the speaker around half an inch. Luckily dad was home (I was using his garage) so he cut me some "speaker spacers" which worked great (He has his own shop so it only took him a couple minutes to make some nice spacers). Unfortunately, my stupid as$ may have screwed up a speaker. I attempted to use the screws from the original stock subs and I wasn't paying close enough attention/couldn't see it very well/it was getting late and when I tightened it down, it caught the rubber surround and smooshed it. I backed the screw out and the surround looks a little damaged but I don't think it's punctured. It just annoyed me because I was purposely going very slow and making sure everything was perfect and then I did that. Any thoughts on this? I don't think it's punctured but would a small dab of good rubber silicone help/give me peace of mind. I attached a couple pics and it actually looks quite a bit worse in person - it was dark and my camera phone sucks.

Tomorrow I'm hoping my second amp shows up in the mail. If it doesn't, is it safe to cap the end of the power wire which is supposed to run to that amp and use the car? I don't want to have to remove the wire from the dist block and go through that again.

Also, I'll take some pics of how I ran the wires/mounted the amps/mounted the deck speakers/etc.

 

[1LoudLS]

is it safe to cap the end of the power wire which is supposed to run to that amp and use the car?

tape it up and its good, no fuse to pull?

 

[jinx8402]

Good call on KnuKonceptz. Great quality, on par with bigger name companies, for great price. I've been using their stuff for years now.