Won't start

NateRW21

NateRW21

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Alright, I haven't really dug into it yet but I'm lookin to hear if anyone else has had similar issues, hopefully giving me a direction to take this.

Tried to start my LS friday after it sat for a couple weeks in the garage. It fired up and was making a pretty nasty sound. Sort of a knocking, but the radio was on so I couldn't really tell what sort of knock I was getting. So I shut it off really quick. Turned off the radio and tried to start it again. Engine turns over, but does not fire. It seems as if there is zero ignition or fuel delivery. However, I've not checked either yet. I'm just crossing my fingers that someone will say something like "Oh yeah, I had that exact same thing happen and it turned out to be my crank position sensor". I'll be digging into it this week when I have some time.

Unless someone speaks up here, the first spots I'll be checking will be:
-Codes (my reader doesn't work with it- have to get one from autozone)
-Fuel
-Spark
-verify timing components are all in order (chains in tact, cams moving)
-Check valves, ensure none are visibly damaged
-Check spark plugs for damage

The biggest worry here for me is the noise it made when it initially started- it didn't sound very healthy. Had it just decided to crank but not fire I'd be a lost more at ease about the situation.
 
NateRW21 said:
Alright, I haven't really dug into it yet but I'm lookin to hear if anyone else has had similar issues, hopefully giving me a direction to take this.

Tried to start my LS friday after it sat for a couple weeks in the garage. It fired up and was making a pretty nasty sound. Sort of a knocking, but the radio was on so I couldn't really tell what sort of knock I was getting. So I shut it off really quick. Turned off the radio and tried to start it again. Engine turns over, but does not fire. It seems as if there is zero ignition or fuel delivery. However, I've not checked either yet. I'm just crossing my fingers that someone will say something like "Oh yeah, I had that exact same thing happen and it turned out to be my crank position sensor". I'll be digging into it this week when I have some time.

Unless someone speaks up here, the first spots I'll be checking will be:
-Codes (my reader doesn't work with it- have to get one from autozone)
-Fuel
-Spark
-verify timing components are all in order (chains in tact, cams moving)
-Check valves, ensure none are visibly damaged
-Check spark plugs for damage

The biggest worry here for me is the noise it made when it initially started- it didn't sound very healthy. Had it just decided to crank but not fire I'd be a lost more at ease about the situation.
Click to expand...

Sounds just like when my secondary timing chain broke. Broke upon start up and never cranked back up until I fixed it. Hopefully that is not your problem. Good luck and I would take the valve covers off first.
 
:q:q:q:q man, that is exactly what I did NOT want to hear!

Did it cause any damage? Valve to piston contact or anything of the sorts? Did you fix it yourself or pay to have it fixed?
 
NateRW21 said:
:q:q:q:q man, that is exactly what I did NOT want to hear!

Did it cause any damage? Valve to piston contact or anything of the sorts? Did you fix it yourself or pay to have it fixed?
Click to expand...

I had 3 slightly bent valves, but the pistons were fine. I fixed it myself and replaced all the chains, tensioners, guides, and seals while I had the timing cover off. I pulled the head with the motor still in the car and brought the head to the machine shop to get fixed. I then put it all back together and everything has been fine. It's been 25,000 miles now and still running strong. I know a guy that can give you a great deal on all the ford parts if you want them.
 
SlickLS said:
I had 3 slightly bent valves, but the pistons were fine. I fixed it myself and replaced all the chains, tensioners, guides, and seals while I had the timing cover off. I pulled the head with the motor still in the car and brought the head to the machine shop to get fixed. I then put it all back together and everything has been fine. It's been 25,000 miles now and still running strong. I know a guy that can give you a great deal on all the ford parts if you want them.
Click to expand...


Crap, I was worried you'd say that.

If that's the issue, I'd be inclined to replace all timing chains while I'm digging into it. This is deff not something I wanted to do. I'll be in touch if that proves to be the problem here.
 
Okay, got the covers off- the chains seem just fine. Haven't been able to turn it over and watch for proper movement since I was working alone tonight. I'll have to get someone to help me out with it tomorrow.

Any other ideas what could cause a nasty knock-ish sound then turning over but not firing?

I'm inclined to start looking at crank and cam position sensors if the cams prove to be just fine. Anyone know how the engine would behave with a bad crank or cam sensor? I've never had one crap on me.
 
The chains might look fine, but a tensioner naw be bad and causing your motor to be out of time. These are zero tolerance motors so once they lose time then they will damage something in the process and that could be why it won't start back up and why it's knocking.
 
hmmm alright. Secondary on the right side isn't as tight as the left- but it's not that loose. I'll dig some more
 
I'm really doubting it's a timing issue. All four chains seem fairly tight, all eight cylinders blow air/pistons move. I'm going to plug this thing in tomorrow and see what codes come up. If that doesn't show anything, I'll try to hunt down my manual CD even more and trouble shoot
 
I had 50psi at the rail before I disconnected everything. What's the spec for pressure ignition on, engine off?
 
The service manual says acceptable range is 30-65 psi, 40 psi at the injector nozzle.
 
Well, so fuel delivery to the injectors isn't the problem. I still wonder if crank and cam sensors couldn't cause this
 
NateRW21 said:
Well, so fuel delivery to the injectors isn't the problem. I still wonder if crank and cam sensors couldn't cause this
Click to expand...

I don't see why they couldn't. Of course, there are probably a dozen other things that could too.

For grins, you could try disconnecting the MAF and seeing if it would start and run then. If so, it could be a problem with the MAF, a vacuum leak, or a PCM issue.
 
I have to get the valve covers put back, reinstall the fuel lines and coil on plug units... then I'll give it a shot. I should hope it's not the MAF, I just replaced that 3 months ago with an OEM unit. But hey, worse things have happened!
 
NateRW21 said:
I have to get the valve covers put back, reinstall the fuel lines and coil on plug units... then I'll give it a shot. I should hope it's not the MAF, I just replaced that 3 months ago with an OEM unit. But hey, worse things have happened!
Click to expand...

Before you put the covers back on, Look at the cams to see it they are in time.

The cams have flat spots towards the front that should both be on the same plane (flat edge ruler should lay perfectly flat once the motor is turned enough to line the intake and exhaust up) and both left and right side will have the flat spots on top at the same time during rotation.

That would be my main concern. If it jumped just one tooth it most likely was the exhaust and shouldnt hit the pistons but if it jumped several teeth it could.

While turning the motor over the chains may just get tight then loose, mine did. The lack of oil pressure can account for some slack but timing should still be correct.

Rotating the motor with one hand with the spark plugs in was fun but I made it work with minimal blood loss.

Report back on this!
 
Cams are good- both sides, the flat spots lined up. It's easier to turn when you have the spark plugs out btw! :-)

I'm very strongly believing my problems are electronic related at this point... but I'm not 100% either. I thought or sure I'd get SOME sort of code that might help me narrow down the search
 
Okay so I've been very busy lately- hadn't gotten a chance to dig into the car in a while. Got the valve covers put back on, installed three new COP units from autozone (I'm buying one at a time to maximize my rewards points- picked up a fourth yesterday). This is on top of the single COP unit I replaced in June. So I have four new COP installed now. I replaced the plugs... this is all just stuff I wanted to do anyway so I figured now is as good a time as any. Plugs only had 45k on them... mileage was decreasing so I figured the coils were getting a bit weak.

Anyway- got all that done and buttoned up... figure i'd try starting it. Turns over and sounds a bit like it wants to fire. Stepped on the gas and it was getting closer. So I did this a couple times and it finally started up. Let out a nice amount of smoke, idle smoothed out and it runs just fine.

Over-all... I have no damned clue why it did all of this. I'm at a 100% loss as to cause and solution.
 
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