Media deception concerning the Beck rally?

[Calabrio]

I take issue with your indictment of Palin as being "crazy."
It's really a ridiculous claim your making, repeating the sentiment of the media that fuels your opinion.

There's nothing crazy about her.
And, before you say it, she's not stupid either.

You can observe that she was ill prepared for the adversarial and hostile media she encountered after being thust int he the VP candidate position in 2008. But that was because of the gross ineptitude and poor planning of the McCain campaign.

She's repeatedly demonstrated just how smart and politically savy she really is. At times, she has defined he political dialog using only her facebook page.

Frankly, I find the attacks on her offensive because they are completely baseless. People who really don't know better, who don't understand how the North Eastern media culture works still take what they 'report' at face value and let it shape their opinion. The fact is that the mainstream media and political left have invested a tremendous amount of time, energy,and money, not simply in beating her politically- but in destroying her as a human. By attacking her personally, attacking her family, harassing her, and essentially trying to intimidate her. Why? Because of the woman's charisma and because they can't tolerate or afford to have a dynamic and attractive traditionally conservative "feminist" redefining their leftist movement.

I have no idea how her husband tolerates it and refrains from beating the hell out of some of the agitators and reporters that provoke them. Politics aside, I think the Palin family is representative of this country in a good way and we'd be well served to have more people like them in the Congress and elected office..

Likely, you'll respond to this by taking issue with her framing of the "Death panels" issue associated with the Obamacare bill. I think we've addressed that in the other thread.

 

[shagdrum]

Not that my individual vote matters much, but hey, I am just trying to convey my feelings on the matter.

Do you think politics should be dominated by "feelings"? That "feelings" are a solid and reliable basis for political principles and worldviews?

 

[04SCTLS]

I found this article entertaining
_______________________________________________________________

There Can't Be a Liberal Palin

• Posted: August 31, 2010 at 10:53 AM
• By Amanda Marcotte

http://www.doublex.com/blog/xxfactor/there-cant-be-liberal-palin

Jessica, I'm happy to see you take on the task of promoting fiery progressive women to be the sort of "Sarah Palin of the left," a job the Democratic establishment has basically refused to do. But I have to take issue with the way that Sarah Palin is assumed to have a lot of power because she can get a lot of attention. Honestly, if someone waved a magic wand and made her and Hillary Clinton sudden death contenders for the presidency right now, Clinton would win in a heartbeat. Being able to get a lot of attention doesn't mean you win anyone's hearts. Look at Paris Hilton.

Hanna, I have to disagree with your assumption that a liberal version of Sarah Palin would have to compromise on basic issues, such as a woman's right to exhibit willingness to be nonprocreative at any point in time without apology. To be the "Sarah Palin of the left," you would have to be able to be as firmly on the left as Palin is on the right, and that would mean being pro-choice without apology.

But you can't really draw direct equivalences, for a couple of reasons. One is that Palin's main appeal is that she offers herself as proof that a sexist culture's lies aren't lies. In a sexist culture, women are expected to be strong yet submissive, maternal yet sexually exciting, sure-footed enough to get all the work that's put in your lap done, but not intelligent so that you threaten insecure men. Real women basically find these conflicting demands to be impossible to achieve. Sarah Palin draws in her worshippers by implying all you need to be the perfect woman who manages to fit every single male fantasy is to vote Republican. She hides the ugly realities of how she isn't doing it all, and people gather around her, wishing to believe.

Liberals can't be fed a fantasy woman because we don't even agree on what our fantasy is. Many liberals are openly uneasy with feminism, lured by conservative arguments about how women having too much freedom would mean the end of sexual fun for men but the beginning of a sea of dishes and nagging. Many male liberals, particularly in positions of power, are openly made uncomfortable by feminist demands, even when they agree intellectually that women should have rights. (Witness the way that Democratic men in Congress erupted into childish giggling when asked by their female colleagues to listen to a presentation on the economic value of contraception subsidies.) Even when liberal men can manage not to squirm, many still have a tendency to dismiss "women's issues" as second-tier concerns, as if half the population were a narrow special interest group, like people who want ferret-owning to be legal in New York City.

Plus, liberals don't have as many contradictory demands, so we don't really need fantasies spoon fed to us that these contradictions can be managed. We don't have a need to believe women can be appealingly stupid yet capable—we're fine with just plain smart women. We're not nearly as invested in the idea that our leaders should demonstrate a sexual magnetism that we're lacking in our own lives. How well a candidate shoots a gun or how productive his or her loins are doesn't matter as much to us. Politicians like Palin understand that their base is insecure and needing of distracting fantasies, and so it's just a matter of providing them. But the emotional needs of the liberal base are far harder to sum up and provide with a few photo ops.

 

[Calabrio]

yeah, her refudiate fiasco

Really, a fiasco?
Would that be on the same kind of fiascol as talking about visiting 57 states, with one left to go....
YouTube- Obama Claims He's Visited 57 States

Or sending your two year old to get a breathalyzer for their asthma
YouTube- Obama Asthma Teleprompter Gaffe

When writing, or twittering, something, it's not a indicator of intelligence if you mistakenly combine the words refute and repudiate. That's just a mistake. The fact that the political left thinks it's appropriate or honest to harp on it, to make it a "fiasco", demonstrates just how politically insecure they are and how invested they are in destroying her personally.

although she does know how to sell herself to those that defend her.

What you mean is that she's not pandering to blind, leftists and partisan Democrats. She's not pandering to the North Eastern Republican establishment either.

Something of note, you'll find that all posts about Palin from the left won't address the irrational hate and personal attacks directed at her from the left. They won't address how that's been determined to be a political necessity so that leftists "feminists" can claim a monopoly on that identity. No, you'll just harping on the "fiasco" of a woman 'twittering' the word refudiate-
the honest mistake of combining the words repudiate and refute. It's an honest mistake that happens when you write what fluidly and as you hear it in your head. Those are words with very similar meanings.

A mistake I would bet that most people here wouldn't even have picked up on the first time they saw it.

 

[fossten]

yeah, her refudiate fiasco shows that. she's so smart she can make up new words without meaning trying to sound smart instead of writing out a few more words to make her point.
although she does know how to sell herself to those that defend her.

This from a guy who violates nearly every grammatical rule every time he posts. Par.

You can observe that she was ill prepared for the adversarial and hostile media she encountered after being thust int he the VP candidate position in 2008. But that was because of the gross ineptitude and poor planning of the McCain campaign.

I disagree. There are literally hours of footage that were never aired. Most likely the stuff they showed on TV was the weakest stuff they could find. Likely she had some strong, endearing answers that they blithely left on the cutting room floor.

 

[shagdrum]

yeah, her refudiate fiasco shows that. she's so smart she can make up new words without meaning trying to sound smart instead of writing out a few more words to make her point.
although she does know how to sell herself to those that defend her.

When it comes to any and every public figure, you can always cherry pick and find things to make any of them seem like an idiot...as Cal just pointed out.

These type of little "points" don't amount to anything.

Snarkiness and contempt are not substitutes for reason.

 

[shagdrum]

I found this article entertaining

"Entertaining" is about all it is.

 

[04SCTLS]

"Entertaining" is about all it is.

That's why the smileys

People try to knock her down but she just gets back up.
"Refutiate" was hardly a fiasco more like endearing that she coined a new word without trying.
She's no genius but certainly a capable politician.

 

[shagdrum]

She's no genius but certainly a capable politician.

She is also not someone prone to intellectual hubris, both personally, or in human capability generally. That is a far more important trait then having someone with the right academic pedigree in office.

 

[FIND]

Do you think politics should be dominated by "feelings"? That "feelings" are a solid and reliable basis for political principles and worldviews?

because context really never was important to you in a discussion. Then again, thought was never a solid or reliable basis for your political principles and worldviews, so I guess I will just let your statement stand as it is.

 

[FIND]

I take issue with your indictment of Palin as being "crazy."
It's really a ridiculous claim your making, repeating the sentiment of the media that fuels your opinion.

There's nothing crazy about her.
And, before you say it, she's not stupid either.

You can observe that she was ill prepared for the adversarial and hostile media she encountered after being thust int he the VP candidate position in 2008. But that was because of the gross ineptitude and poor planning of the McCain campaign.

She's repeatedly demonstrated just how smart and politically savy she really is. At times, she has defined he political dialog using only her facebook page.

Frankly, I find the attacks on her offensive because they are completely baseless. People who really don't know better, who don't understand how the North Eastern media culture works still take what they 'report' at face value and let it shape their opinion. The fact is that the mainstream media and political left have invested a tremendous amount of time, energy,and money, not simply in beating her politically- but in destroying her as a human. By attacking her personally, attacking her family, harassing her, and essentially trying to intimidate her. Why? Because of the woman's charisma and because they can't tolerate or afford to have a dynamic and attractive traditionally conservative "feminist" redefining their leftist movement.

I have no idea how her husband tolerates it and refrains from beating the hell out of some of the agitators and reporters that provoke them. Politics aside, I think the Palin family is representative of this country in a good way and we'd be well served to have more people like them in the Congress and elected office..

Likely, you'll respond to this by taking issue with her framing of the "Death panels" issue associated with the Obamacare bill. I think we've addressed that in the other thread.

yeah..... ok, your argument sounds almost exactly the same as the Pelosi fanboys.

Is there some kind of requirement of any conservative to automatically say that anyone who disagrees with their views of a person is just brainwashed by the media? Maybe you are the one who is brainwashed by the conservative propagandist media. How bout until you get back to me with proof that you aren't brainwashed, you quit with the accusations?

 

[shagdrum]

FIND why are you so defensive? Why do you lie about those who call your views into question? A number of us have attempted to engage you civilly only to have that thrown back in our face. Our point of view has been disparaged as irrational, no matter the evidence and/or logic given in it's favor. Instead of civilly providing counterpoints to the arguments we raise, you impugn us and dismiss our point of view as uninformed and illegitimate.

Can you please lose the chip on your shoulder and stop dragging down discourse with your defensiveness?

 

[fossten]

These two words sum up every single one of FIND's posts:

"No U!"

 

[shagdrum]

because context really never was important to you in a discussion. Then again, thought was never a solid or reliable basis for your political principles and worldviews, so I guess I will just let your statement stand as it is.

:Bang

You know.... that is the kind of post that really adds nothing to discussion and only seeks to destroy any chance at honest discourse.

:iconcur:

 

[Calabrio]

...and for the record, while I don't think Obama is the intellectual powerhouse that the people at MSNBC and Newsweek present him to be, I certainly don't think he's stupid either.

I don't think he honestly believes that there are 58 states in the continental U.S. I think he was exhaust after having spent so much time on the campaign trail. Frankly, Obama is not a man used to working hard. (If you don't believe this, read his books, look at his career, look at his previous campaigns, his voting record, or his frequent travel vacations this past year). He said 57 instead of 47. Those things happen.

The same applies for the campaign event where he was hung up on the medical equipment. That doesn't make him stupid, it just demonstrates that he was tired and made a mistake.

We all do that. We're all human.
Even those living under a microscope.

But the ridiculous over reaction to a woman using the word "refudiate" on her twitter/facebook/social media comment demonstrates just how threatened by this woman the left is.

 

[FIND]

...and for the record, while I don't think Obama is the intellectual powerhouse that the people at MSNBC and Newsweek present him to be, I certainly don't think he's stupid either.

I don't think he honestly believes that there are 58 states in the continental U.S. I think he was exhaust after having spent so much time on the campaign trail. Frankly, Obama is not a man used to working hard. (If you don't believe this, read his books, look at his career, look at his previous campaigns, his voting record, or his frequent travel vacations this past year). He said 57 instead of 47. Those things happen.

The same applies for the campaign event where he was hung up on the medical equipment. That doesn't make him stupid, it just demonstrates that he was tired and made a mistake.

We all do that. We're all human.
Even those living under a microscope.

But the ridiculous over reaction to a woman using the word "refudiate" on her twitter/facebook/social media comment demonstrates just how threatened by this woman the left is.

FWIW, if Obama managed to convince that many people that he was the best choice for president despite his inexperience, despite his work history, and despite having any type of plan to deal with recession, he has got to be a pretty smart guy. You have to give him that much at least.

 

[fossten]

FWIW, if Obama managed to convince that many people that he was the best choice for president despite his inexperience, despite his work history, and despite having any type of plan to deal with recession, he has got to be a pretty smart guy. You have to give him that much at least.

No.

1. Economy in the toilet thanks to the housing bubble
2. Media shielded Obama
3. Media attack dogs all over McCain and (especially) Palin
4. Republicans losing their way fiscally, lost touch with voters

Mickey Mouse could have defeated John RINO McCain in that election.

Of course, now I get to say 'I told you so.'

 

[04SCTLS]

You have to give him that much at least.

His only real success so far was getting elected.

 

[FIND]

No.

1. Economy in the toilet thanks to the housing bubble

And yet he still convinced everyone he could save the world.

2. Media shielded Obama

Oh really?

3. Media attack dogs all over McCain and (especially) Palin

Uh huh..... I saw PLENTY of bad press about Obama, more than I saw about McCain, then Palin came along, and she was the only person less prepared for a presidential race or a job in the White house than Obama

YouTube- Sarah Palin Gets VP Job Description Wrong

Not that that is the only instance...... Just felt it was a good reference to help stir up the memory of the election versus the current state of idolization that Palin is enjoying.

4. Republicans losing their way fiscally, lost touch with voters

So have they found their way yet, because most of them are still calling for Bush era financial policy.

Mickey Mouse could have defeated John RINO McCain in that election.

I'm not normally one for conspiracy theories, but I've wondered if Republicans purposely ran such a poor campaign this last election so that they could stick Dems with the economic situation and be able to shift the blame off of them. Honestly though, I thought McCain could have done a LOT better that last election. Joe Lieberman would have been a WAY better choice for VP than Palin was, despite his political affiliations, I think he would have brought McCain a huge amount of votes and really played to McCain's strengths, along with filling in some of the policy areas that McCain wanted to avoid. There were several other really good options for VP that he could have considered. From where I stand, it seems Palin lost him more votes than she gained, and for him to have defeated Obama in the last election, he really needed a running mate that appealed to more than the minority that Palin did at the time. Sure, Palin has been getting more and more hype and a much larger following since the election, in my opinion, that seems more a result of the anti-Obama sentiments.

Of course, now I get to say 'I told you so.'

Really? Depending on your point of view, he has accomplished a hell of a lot. Doesn't really seem to me that his policies have really hurt the economy. At least no more than Bush's had. Most of our national debt still came before he went into office and we have seen more economic stability coupled with slow recovery..... at least we were until the election started drawing closer..... Not to say that they are connected, but I wouldn't rule that out either. Oh well, your type seems to have this hard-on for blaming every economic problem this country has ever had on Obama, so..... guess this is all a moot point to you. No sense blaming any of the people who are causing any of these problems anyways, Wall Street can't possibly be blamed right?

 

[FIND]

His only real success so far was getting elected.

I'm normally not one for quoting political websites or blogs, however I will link to one on this occasion simply to demonstrate that "Success" is relative to your point of view.

http://www.obamaachievements.com/

 

[shagdrum]

...Palin came along, and she was the only person less prepared for a presidential race or a job in the White house than Obama

YouTube- Sarah Palin Gets VP Job Description Wrong

Not that that is the only instance...... Just felt it was a good reference to help stir up the memory of the election versus the current state of idolization that Palin is enjoying.

Actually, Palin got the job description of the VP right.

The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided.
-Article I, § 3, clause 4 of the United States Constitution​

In the mainstream media's sycophantic zeal to support Obama, they missed that fact.

 

[shagdrum]

So have they found their way yet, because most of them are still calling for Bush era financial policy.

Doesn't really seem to me that his policies have really hurt the economy. At least no more than Bush's had.

What, specifically, was bad about Bush's fiscal policies?

Most of our national debt still came before [Obama] went into office and we have seen more economic stability coupled with slow recovery

A: what was the primary source of national debt?

B: what recovery?

 

[fossten]

So have they found their way yet, because most of them are still calling for Bush era financial policy.

You mean the policy that saw 52 straight months of economic growth?

 

[FIND]

You mean the policy that saw 52 straight months of economic growth?

How about that national deficit and debt growth too? Or how about the loss of all of the last remaining restrictions on businesses to keep them from doing exactly what they did? Bush didn't do anything to help the job market, the economy was growing on its own, just like he didn't REALLY do anything to cause recession.

 

[FIND]

Actually, Palin got the job description of the VP right.

The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided.
-Article I, § 3, clause 4 of the United States Constitution​

In the mainstream media's sycophantic zeal to support Obama, they missed that fact.

Oh, so they are in charge of the United States Senate? If they want to they can really get in there with the senators and make a lot of policy changes? That sounds kinda different from casting a tie breaker vote.