Hydraulic Fan Pump Bypass Belt Size 100"

hite337

hite337

Hite Performance
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I replaced my hydraulic fan with a Flex-A-Lite 180 electric fan a few months back and I looped the hydraulic lines to the fan pump. This worked good for awhile but my fan pump began to whine a little. I searched this site for info on belt sizes for people who want to remove the fan pump and run a shorter belt. Alot of people asked this question and a clear answer was never posted. So here it is...a 13/16" x 100 5/8" belt with 6 ribs will fit.

I did the old string around the pulley trick and I bought 4 belts ranging from 98-101" and the 101" fit with the belt tensioner guage reading dead center. The fan pump was a SOB to remove but 5hrs of hell and it is history.

I also bought a different idler pulley for the top idler. It is identacle to the lower idler pulley with the flange on the outside. I wanted the flange because I didnt know if the belt would try to come off or not. It appears to ride well on the pulley so the stock pulley without the flange will probly work fine.

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what would be a good CFM rating coming from a fan for a v6 lincoln? and the fan u bought wat was the dia?
 
good job converting it over.
ive always worried about the current draw because these alternators are weak. thats why they went hydraulic in the first place. my stereo already pulls more than the alternator can keep up with so i cant even turn my JL 1000/1 up very high. thats the only thing that kept me from converting mine years ago.
 
Heres a link to a 200 amp alternator for $230
http://www.dbelectrical.com/p-5124-lincoln-ls-200-amp-high-output-alternator-39l-00-01-02-8256.aspx

or a 220 amp for $270
http://www.dbelectrical.com/p-5123-lincoln-ls-220-amp-high-output-alternator-39l-00-01-02-8256.aspx


I think i"m going to upgrade to the 220 amp alternator soon. The only aftermarket electronic component I have is a radar detector for now but I will be upgrading the audio system soon. The electric fan draws up to 18 amps so I think I'm close to the limits of the factory alternator.
 
DB Electrical alternators SUCK

Those DB alternators are CRAP. I read reviews about how crappy they were, but some people said they had no problems. I put one on my girls car, and guess what, it is a piece of crap. I've seen others on this forum do tests as well, and they were pathetic. It isn't what they claim, but it is cheap. For her car, the lights all dim when driving, until you hit the gas harder, then it brightens up. I would never buy one again unless I absolutely could not afford another one. You don't want to have a bad alternator, spend money on a crappy one that works, and then want a good one later.
 
Yes they definately dont work with the gen1 LS. This thread hasnt been updated in awhile. I have tried several aftermarket HO alternators and had no luck. The LS's PCM controls the alternators output so it doesnt work correctly. Buy OEM Motorcraft reman alternators only....for now.
 
How does the computer measure the alternator's output anyway? It should be a wire that measures the voltage, and since it seems the computer can't be reprogrammed perhaps the computer's alternator measurement wire could be run through a variable resistor. When it's not making enough juice at idle, add resistance until the computer boosts output, then leave it there.

Thoughts?
 
Telco said:
How does the computer measure the alternator's output anyway? It should be a wire that measures the voltage, and since it seems the computer can't be reprogrammed perhaps the computer's alternator measurement wire could be run through a variable resistor. When it's not making enough juice at idle, add resistance until the computer boosts output, then leave it there.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Sorry, not nearly that simple. It looks at the duty cycle of the PWM signal that controls current to the coils in the rotor. You'd have to simulate a very dynamic signal.
 
So it doesn't measure the actual voltage on the system then? No, of course not because if it did then the computer would respond to more load on the system by increasing power to the system. Too bad there's not a way to just let the computer think it was looking at a valid signal, then put a regular alternator into the car.

Letting the computer look at a valid signal... wonder if there would be a way to record a 10 minute run of what the existing alternator normally sends to the computer, then stick it in a chip that would play that 10 minutes back to the computer in a loop? If so, it should keep the computer happy while allowing a standard alternator to be used.

I suppose there's no way to stick a Gen 2 computer into a Gen 1 car and have everything work correctly.
 
Nope, Gen 2 is a drive-by-wire, 1st Gen is cable driven throttle. Nothing drivetrain is interchangeable without serious modification, but big ups for the belt size, and whether or not I could just remove the pump.
 
Can't use a more common alternator because the case and mounting is unique to Gen 1. At least my searches didn't find anything.
Ford did it so they could further lower alternator output at idle, thereby reducing parasitic loss.
Aftermarket alternators just don't get it right because the computer is now directly controlling output of modified rotors and stators - and it doesn't respond the way the stock one does.
 
oddball said:
Can't use a more common alternator because the case and mounting is unique to Gen 1. At least my searches didn't find anything.
Click to expand...

I don't think this part is correct, because other people on this board have said that they installed new alternators on their cars only to find that they didn't work because the alt didn't have provisions for the computer control. So, other alternators do physically fit.

Sounds like the only way this would work is for people to push SCT to add alternator control to their programmer, then push out an update if their programmers are able to be updated. While you Gen 1 owners are at it, push to have them add PATS disabling. Might have a better chance of getting each done if two things are being updated at once.
 
Telco said:
I don't think this part is correct, because other people on this board have said that they installed new alternators on their cars only to find that they didn't work because the alt didn't have provisions for the computer control. So, other alternators do physically fit.

Sounds like the only way this would work is for people to push SCT to add alternator control to their programmer, then push out an update if their programmers are able to be updated. While you Gen 1 owners are at it, push to have them add PATS disabling. Might have a better chance of getting each done if two things are being updated at once.
Click to expand...

I've tried running this by Torrie a year ago when Hite posted his HO alternator resolution thread. He said the only provision he has currently is upping the voltage in the car. Apparently the factory program is set for 15 volts and Torrie said he could bump it to 16 volts. I neglected to try this because if I'm only getting ~14.3 readings at 15, how would increasing it to 16 help?

I've been working with Wrangler Power products during this time, and I should post this in the other thread, but we went with a smaller pulley on a 160 amp unit....no luck. The tried a different regulator...no luck.

Then we got our hands dirty - we went to a hairpin style alternator and a custom bracket to get it to mate to the car....that helped but still had poor idle output. 12.9s - low 13.

Then they wanted to use a pigtail harness on a higher regulator (Toyota I think) so that the plugs would connect, but the power source would be an external ignition source. It looked like an octapus, and guess what, still didn't work.

The only conceivable route to get this to work is having them come up with a program for alternator output at idle or simply turn it off. Not sure who can do this, probably someone with more clout than myself who may know Torrie well.

In the meantime, I went with Oddball's controll board and a Napa reman. Works good except when turning the car on after it sits overnight it will do a weird surging, even in the 1,500-2,000rpm range until the car goes back to idle. Odd, but its nothing serious. Probably just needs a smaller pulley to get a little more out of it at idle
 
hite337 said:
I replaced my hydraulic fan with a Flex-A-Lite 180 electric fan a few months back and I looped the hydraulic lines to the fan pump. This worked good for awhile but my fan pump began to whine a little. I searched this site for info on belt sizes for people who want to remove the fan pump and run a shorter belt. Alot of people asked this question and a clear answer was never posted. So here it is...a 13/16" x 100 5/8" belt with 6 ribs will fit.

I did the old string around the pulley trick and I bought 4 belts ranging from 98-101" and the 101" fit with the belt tensioner guage reading dead center. The fan pump was a SOB to remove but 5hrs of hell and it is history.

I also bought a different idler pulley for the top idler. It is identacle to the lower idler pulley with the flange on the outside. I wanted the flange because I didnt know if the belt would try to come off or not. It appears to ride well on the pulley so the stock pulley without the flange will probly work fine.
Click to expand...



What did you do with all the hoses to the hydraulic pump?
 
Is anyone able to---

speak with authority regarding the alternator mounts for the Gen 1 and Gen 2? In other words, do both alts physically mount to their respective engines the same way?

KS
 
From what I have seen looking at pictures the gen2 alternator is located a bit higher on the block, about even with the crank. I'm not certain if the alternators themselves share the same mounting locations - as in whether g1 alternator will bolt to g2 mount and the other way around. According to online manual gen2 has three bolts while gen1 has two. I have been pondering the same question myself.
 
Thread revival here... I saw your video on YouTube. What did you use in running the wiress? What type of setup did you use?

Is it really just as simple as a ground, power, and a relay to a certain spot? I thought it might be but reading over the alternator load, would that have too great of an impact?

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
 
Kid_Lyrics said:
...? I thought it might be but reading over the alternator load, would that have too great of an impact?

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Do your front electric seat heaters still work? If not, you will probably be okay. (The seat heaters are a big load too. Eliminate them, and you may have enough left for the fan.)
 
joegr said:
Do your front electric seat heaters still work? If not, you will probably be okay. (The seat heaters are a big load too. Eliminate them, and you may have enough left for the fan.)
Click to expand...
I could try that.. I never use them.. even when it was cold..

Do you think I could wire a switch in so I can turn it off and on when it gets hot?
 
Tie into the power supply for the seats,KidL. It should be fused at the box, so you can tie in out there. Still,I'll leave it up to Joe on this.....he knows the layout. don-ohio :)^)
 
don-ohio said:
Tie into the power supply for the seats,KidL. It should be fused at the box, so you can tie in out there. Still,I'll leave it up to Joe on this.....he knows the layout. don-ohio :)^)
Click to expand...

No!. Don't do that. Seriously?

Get fan power at the stud hidden in the passenger side wheel well. On Gen I, that gives power to the starter and gets power from the alternator. On gen II, the fan is also powered from that connection (via a 50A or so fuse).
 
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