upgrading system

Mine hits plenty hard.
3.7 cu ft is optimal for 2 12's.
It keeps popping the trunklid open :D
 
3.7 may be optimal for YOUR 2 12's, not all subs are the same

kicker recommends between 1.75 and 3.25 per 12 sub and that's not including the port volume, optimal is usually in between max and min depending the the freq that you want it tuned to. that's 2.5 per so 5.0 total plus the ports which would bring you up to the upper 5's maybe 6,
 
Ok, that's not true. 2 battery system is the best way to go because...

The main battery controls the car vitals and the 2nd battery is what the amps draw from. While the car is running the 2nd battery is charging.


And you dont need a new alternator. Your lights dont dim because of your alt. Your amps are connected to your battery. Alt's for charging not power draws.

Do whatever you want.
 
Xrumer said:
Ok, that's not true. 2 battery system is the best way to go because...

The main battery controls the car vitals and the 2nd battery is what the amps draw from. While the car is running the 2nd battery is charging.
Click to expand...

wow really, are the two batterys not on the same circuit, unless you have one hell of a diod both batterys will power both the car and the amps, and if the car is running, the only time the amps will pull power from the battery is when the voltage drops below 12v, if your cars voltage is dropping below 12v then you have a problem, and that means that the batterys are not getting charged (bad for the batterys) if you keep trying to pull 200amps out of an 140 amp alt, then you are going to burn that f#$%er up.

Xrumer said:
And you dont need a new alternator. Your lights dont dim because of your alt. Your amps are connected to your battery. Alt's for charging not power draws.
Click to expand...
the alt can only charge, when the voltage in the system is above the voltage in the battery, which can only happen if the system(read ALT) can supply enough power for the entire system(car, battery, amps)

I will say it again if the problem is the amps are using 150 amps and the car needs 50 amps to run (with all of the electronics the LS has i doubt its that low) and the stock alt can only produce 140 amps, how do you think that adding a battery is going to fix the problem, batterys can only store power not produce it. if any thing it will only put more strain on the already over taxed alt.

Xrumer said:
Do whatever you want.
Click to expand...


I have done what i wanted, and in such, i have a pair of 15" L7's that hit 154 decibels in a sealed box with no light dimming what so ever, and i'm still running a single factory battery. but by all means don't listen to me, its not like I've been an installer for the last 11 years and have built 6 trophy winning competition vehicles
 
1LoudLS said:
3.7 may be optimal for YOUR 2 12's, not all subs are the same

kicker recommends between 1.75 and 3.25 per 12 sub and that's not including the port volume, optimal is usually in between max and min depending the the freq that you want it tuned to. that's 2.5 per so 5.0 total plus the ports which would bring you up to the upper 5's maybe 6,
Click to expand...

You guys make too much of this port tuning stuff.
With a spread of almost 2 to 1 it's not that critical.
I have a box in the trunk of my camaro convertable that due to space considerations is 2/3 the recommended minimum size Rockford recommends, and it sounds great.
And it has short long rectangular ports.
But if you're just going to throw in box that kills your trunk space might as well be a big one.
 
port volume and tuning is very important, if something sounds good in an incorrect box just imagine how much better it will sound in the correct box. i have seen great subs sound like a$$ because of the box and i have also seen a great box make terrible speakers sound wonderful, in a lot of cases the box is just as important as the driver that's in it, look at bose for example, they spend ridiculous amount of money in engineering to make very good sound come out of crappy foam and paper speakers, and its all due to box design and proper tuning.
 
hey congratulations for posting a link that has conflicting info on it. I'm sure that won't confuse any one, the best part is one of the guy that even says

"upgrade your alternator" and
"worst case scenario, add batteries, but if it were me, this would be last resort."

or the guy that says

"The down side to two batteries is the second battery robs the alternator of power to keep it charged that would otherwise be used by the audio system.

As batteries are really just for starting the car, a second battery isn't the best choice. If you need more amperage, get a bigger alternator."

and I'm really impressed in how your "perfect example" clearly showed exactly how and why a second battery is so much better than a H/O alt.
 
the boston oval sub :q:q:q:qing pounds if you amp it nicely. its what im putting in my ls when i get the money and boston stuff is always good.
 
Any jerk off can post what he thinks on Yahoo answers, the main comment that was picked as the right answer is the dual batteries... this is a waste of time. It's cool w.e u want.
 
see, i just finished wiring my buddies stereo up. has a amp pushing about 400 watts nothing special. he puts his two 10 inch clarions in a sealed box in his trunk turns it on and sounds good. I grab my old computer sub (logitech z-5300e) and wire it up, dual ported 8 inch and it starts rolling back his odometer. THEN i grab my 10 inch rockford fosgate t1 in a bassworks ported box and it blows both the 20 fuses on his amp. all the same song at the same volume level with vehicle running. anyone care to explain?
 
Xrumer said:
Any jerk off can post what he thinks on Yahoo answers, the main comment that was picked as the right answer is the dual batteries... this is a waste of time. It's cool w.e u want.
Click to expand...

Actually you are wrong, and 1loudls is right. I have been building systems in cars for almost 18 years now, and the CORRECT answer is to upgrade the alternator. All a second battery does is create a greater power draw. If you can't produce the power, what good will having a second battery do? If you put in a good battery, and upgrade your alternator to a H/O alt, you WILL see a difference. And, your lights won't dim on you.
I have upgraded my alt to a H/O alt, haven't changed out the battery yet, but I do have a voltmeter wired in, and I can tell you that my system hasn't dropped below 14.3 volts since I made the swap. My lights don't dim on me, and I even get tighter bass response. I like bass too, but I also like to hear the music as well. And you can see from the sig that I have a few components installed in my LS as well.
 
if any jerk off on yahoo answers can post an answer, then why did you link to it. the correct answer was chosen by the asker, you know the dude that has no clue in the first place

thank you TheArchaic1, it good to see that the people that actually built systems know what is going on
 
fastmark1993 said:
see, i just finished wiring my buddies stereo up. has a amp pushing about 400 watts nothing special. he puts his two 10 inch clarions in a sealed box in his trunk turns it on and sounds good. I grab my old computer sub (logitech z-5300e) and wire it up, dual ported 8 inch and it starts rolling back his odometer. THEN i grab my 10 inch rockford fosgate t1 in a bassworks ported box and it blows both the 20 fuses on his amp. all the same song at the same volume level with vehicle running. anyone care to explain?
Click to expand...

The T1 could be wired to a lower impedance then the amp could handle, for example, the sub could have dual 2 ohm coils, if wired in parallel the load would be 1 ohm, if the amp is not 1 ohm stable (few are) then you would try to work the amp a lot harder than it is capable of and the amp would either go into protect mode or blow the fuses
 
1LoudLS said:
The T1 could be wired to a lower impedance then the amp could handle, for example, the sub could have dual 2 ohm coils, if wired in parallel the load would be 1 ohm, if the amp is not 1 ohm stable (few are) then you would try to work the amp a lot harder than it is capable of and the amp would either go into protect mode or blow the fuses
Click to expand...

Very few subs are dual 2 ohm coils.
Usually they're dual 4 ohms so you can hook up 1 sub at 4 ohms or 2 ohms.
If you have 2 subs you can have either 4 ohms or 1.(series, parallel)
My Rockford BD 1000.1 is 1 ohm stable but it toasted the dual coil Audiobahns I had wired in double parallel.
The Cadence's I have now are single 4 ohm coils that come out to 2 ohms in parallel and are rated 2000 watts continuous together.
 
04SCTLS said:
Very few subs are dual 2 ohm coils.
Usually they're dual 4 ohms so you can hook up 1 sub at 4 ohms or 2 ohms.
If you have 2 subs you can have either 4 ohms or 1.(series, parallel)
My Rockford BD 1000.1 is 1 ohm stable but it toasted the dual coil Audiobahns I had wired in double parallel.
The Cadence's I have now are single 4 ohm coils that come out to 2 ohms in parallel and are rated 2000 watts continuous together.
Click to expand...

a lot of higher end subs are available in both dual 2's and dual 4's, you usually see the dual 2's in a sub that can handle enough power for the same companies big mono amps in a one amp per sub situation, for instance i have a buddy that has been a hard core rockford fanatic for close to two decades, last summer we built him a system with two 12"T2's (the dual 2's) and a pair of p1000-1bd's driving them, the amps are rated 1000W @ 1 ohm, which is perfect for the dual 2 ohm subs wired in parallel.

also my L7's where available in dual 2's (though i opted for dual 4's so i could run them off of 1 amp)

JL even makes a 13" W7 with dual 1.5 ohm coils.

my first system in high school had six 10" mtx 5000's with single 6 ohm coils ran in two set off of two 2 ohm stable amps (back then as a kid i thought that the more the better)

yes dual 4 ohm coils is the most common but there are plenty of others, i was just throwing out one of the more possible options for his situation. he just as easiely could have had two dual 4's and his amp could be a 2 ch bridged, and bridged could only be 4 ohm stable(2 ohm stable in stereo), and the clarion's he tried first could have been 8 ohms, are 8 ohms common? no, but they do exist and i have had too many customers just come in with mismatched crap that wont work together because they bought them off of different people and no body knows to check this stuff out first
 
1LoudLS said:
if any jerk off on yahoo answers can post an answer, then why did you link to it. the correct answer was chosen by the asker, you know the dude that has no clue in the first place

thank you TheArchaic1, it good to see that the people that actually built systems know what is going on
Click to expand...

No problem, I have been to numerous places and when someone asks how to keep their lights from dimming, you wouldn't believe how many "certified" installers will tell you that you need a second battery. I haven't and I won't let anyone touch a component to install it in my cars.
I learned the hard way, by ripping things out and putting them back in. I enjoy doing it and always have. I just hate the tools that think they know what they are doing and don't.
 
1st of all we were orignally talking about capactiors. How a 2nd battery is more effective. 1loud started talking about HO alt...
 
You guys are both right, and wrong. Capacitors suck and are a waste of money (Excellent discharge time, low exponential decay, but it's a fart in the wind in terms of any decent systems power needs), so is a 2nd battery (Awful discharge times, large exponential decay curve, super high capacity). H.O. alternator is a good start if you're starting a big system. Only problem is you are killing the life of your standard battery if you ever run your system without the engine on. You could by an overprice Optima yellow top to replace your current battery, and buy that H.O. alternator. But you are easily looking at over $500++. The guy that said adding a second battery will drain your system because the alternator can't keep up is wrong. Charging the battery is probably one of the smallest draws on the alternator. Don't believe me? Look at a semi-truck setup.. 4 or 6 HUGE batteries running off one 160 amp alternator, plus a crap-ton of accessories in the cab also drawing amps. The guy that says he's been installing for 18+ years scares me that he would recommend a H.O. Alt without doing the "big 3" and running 0-gauge from alt to batt, batt to frame, and frame to engine block. Putting a H.O. alt in your ride with the stock cables is like throwing a supercharger in your car but using the stock air filter. In some cases, doing 0-gauge in those 3 spots can help MORE then a H.O. alt.

What I would recommend is do the "big-3", skip the flashy useless capacitors and bulky, dangerous, 2nd batties, and get a power-cell like from Kinetiks. They have the fast discharge of a capacitor, plus the big storage of a battery. You also benefit from being able to mount the cell next to your amp which is a bigger deal then most people think. I've seen one of the smaller series start up a super duty diesel truck without any latency while still holding most of it's charge. Plus they are cheap online or your local shop might cut you a break if you bust their balls. I ran one (with 0-gauge big-3 of course) with my one 12" running 2500 watts RMS from a mono-block, and a 4-Chan Alpine 90x4 RMS for components on a STOCK alternator (I'll admit it was a 120-Amp alt Ford put in some Explorers) and my music, nor my lights, skipped a beat. Plus with the isolator, if I ever left my headlights on by accident, I could flip a switch and use my power cell to start my truck. $220-$250 should get you one that can handle two L7's EASY. Probably could get away with a 1400 depending on your amp. Don't listen to anyone else but me, I am obsessive compulsive with both A/B personality disorder, and I either don't know and refuse to enter a debate, or I'm right.

P.S. Unless you are getting a sweet deal on those L7's, take a look at some fi BL's. Trust me, you will not be disappointed...
 
i do agree with the big three, (no major system should not have it done) but that should have been done as part of the original amp install. you should never add a device to the car that doubles the power needs of the car, with out upgrading the wires that were designed to carry only the amount of power the the car uses in the stock condition.

semi-trucks also never have any electrical components that exceed the out put of the charging system, therefore they can charge multiple batteries with no problem

with a 2500 and 360 watt amps, you would be using (for simplicity sake, we're gonna assume that the amps are 100% efficient even though we all know that they are not even close) 2860 watts RMS (constantly) and some times more with peak power outputs. @ 14.4 volts (standard voltage output of a charging system with car running) would be 198+ amps, from the sound system alone not even counting what the car uses, so your alt puts out 120 leaving you batteries to come up with the extra 78 amps, bottom line if you drive around long enough with your music up, then no matter how many or how good your battery is, it(or they) will run out of stored power. I didn't make up the laws of electricity, you can think James Watt and Georg Simon Ohm for that, I just follow them.



BTW most amps are between 60% and 80% efficient, so the real numbers could be between 247 and 330 amps of current for the stereo system alone
 
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