New and looking for some help.

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Rifleman@LaymansPC.com

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I recently bought a 2004 Lincoln LS V6 and am in love with the car, but have a few issues I'd like advise on. I'm beginning to think everything might be somehow related.

I recently had a code P2106 that pointed to the Throttle Position Sensor which I changed (the plastic housing of the original was actually melting) and it was also recommended to have the system PCM reprogrammed to correct the TPS issue (which also corrected a hard upshift issue).

Since getting the car I have had to replace the fuse that controls the traction control and D5>D4 (overdrive off) functions several times and finally ended up installing a 10A fuse (stock is 5A) in an attempt to get the device drawing too much power to fail so it can be tracked down and have had no issues with it since.

Now I am having a P0108 Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor Circuit High Voltage code. I have cleared the code twice, the car operates as it should until the first time I shut it off and restart it again, the engine light reappears with this code. Although the car still operates flawlessly, I do not want to run it with the light showing.

#1 (Please correct me if I am wrong) I assume the code is meaning to replace the MAPS?

#2 Is there any way of testing this circuit and knowing the ranges that would be "acceptable"?

#3 What are your ideas on any or all of these issues being related? If so where should I start in diagnosis and where could I find voltage and amperage specs on the different components?

#4 Do any of you think the issue could be caused from a failing battery (OE from '04). A few months ago I ran the battery low during cold weather and it almost would not start the car until turning off all accessories and waiting a few minutes for the battery to recover after reducing load. In reading through this FINE, FINE forum I've seen it mentioned on several occasions that a low battery can create many "weird issues".

Any thoughts are welcome and appriciated. Any solutions, I owe ya my life as I ABSOLUTELY LOVE this car on the twisties here in north-central West Virignia.
 
Semi-educated guesses even?

(Sorry, single day and the post was almost off the firstpage. Needed a reply to keep it active and I ReALLY need some thoughts on this.)
 
I have an 04 V6 and have had no trouble with it at all. I wish i could help you because not alot of people here have the V6's and haven't experienced it but someone will comment . Lot of guys here that not alot about cars
 
Very depressing...

I know the dealer will only replace sensor after sensor and never address the high voltage issue, if there is one, and if it's not intermittant making it nearly impossible to find by someone working by the hour...

I was really hoping for something similar from someone else.

Thanks for the reply though :)
 
it wouldn't hurt to get a new battery... sooner or later you'll need one anyway and it might do the trick.
 
Yes, you should replace the battery (with the correct, vented, battery). It has given you fair warning. The battery in my 04 failed just last December.

1. OBDII codes never mean to replace a sensor. They only indicate a parameter that is out of spec. It is up to you or the mechanic to follow the proper troubleshooting flowchart and determine what needs to be replaced.

2. The factory service manual gives all the info that you need to be able to test and troubleshoot this issue. The 2004 is very much like the 2006, and one of the forum members put the 2006 service manual on line. See the link below. Unfortunately for you, there was no V6 option on the 2006. I don't know if the V8 data for the sensor would be the same or not.
http://deneau.info/ls/

3. It's possible.

4. Probably not, but still a good idea to start by replacing the battery that you know to be weak.
 
Thanks for the link and input, unfortunately for me as well as the 2006 V8 owners, there is nothing at all in that service manual pertaining to the Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor (but hey, the more stuff like that is linked the better)

I've been doing a good deal of reasearch on the issue and since I believe in "the purpose and power of community forums" like this, I'll share. I haven't seen this info listed elsewhere (after many hours reading) so I'll toss it out there for anyone who finds it interesting or useful.

As everyone knows the battery is dealer only item, call any parts store asking about one, nothing is listed in their systems. Ask about the S-Type on the other hand, they have them in stock and have the same ratings (or slightly better depending on which models they have available) as well as having a proper venting system. *DOWNSIDE* The Jag battery is slightly longer than than the LS version, making it not set down in the tray fully. The battery would fit, and set flush with only minor modification to the lower tray, and all the factory "tie-down" hardware would fit and work perfect. So that is something I am curently considering as allot of parts stores do stay open later than the typical dealership, and therefore warranty assistance at an odd time of day or weekend would be MUCH easier and worth the slight modification to the tray. I may get a tray out of a wrecked car and modify it for installation into my car so I'm not limited to running only the truck while I do the work and can take my time to allow it to appear factory.

The MAP sensor for the car is equally hard to get ahold of. Local parts stores do not have any numbers listed. Dealer has it listed as Motorcraft# 3w4z12B579AC. Local dealer wants $215. I have found it (supposedly new) on ebay for $30 and online retailers for $80 to $240. Apparently it fits many vehicles, and a couple different engines. I'm going to cross reference the number at the local stores and see if I can come up with anything there. I'm beginning to get the feeling Lincoln owners are subsidizing part cost for Ford and Mercury owners.

I'll keep updating if the thread lives on and there is any interest and feedback.

Thanks in advance for any more thoughts or opinions.
 
Well it's awesome to see someone who does their homework. Good job finding out the battery issue. You will be a valuable member to the forum and community.
 
3w4z12B579AC looks like the part number for a MAF, not a MAP. The gen II V8 doesn't seem a have a MAP (unless you count the fuel pressure and fuel tank pressure sensors).
 
Da**it yes :) I've fell prey to the same thing many do there. Got the wrong number from the dealer. It's 5:25 here and too late to call the Parts Dept. today.

If as suggested about, that replacing the sensor wouldn't be what needs done on a P0108 code (MAP Sensor High Voltage), what would need done?
 
I had no trouble finding a proper battery for my car a few months ago. I limped into a CarQuest after all my electronics went dead. If they didn't have the correct battery I would have been screwed.
 
Just hit up a local NAPA. I got mine through my uncle at NAPA and its a deep cycle gel battery, half the size and the same power. Anyways, I do believe the same spec replacement battery is a size 65, The batteries we sell at my work which is just a midwest chain, is the 6571, I think 71, or 70. Same size as the 101 but more power. There are plenty of options as for batteries, just go to a NAPA or autozone and bring in the 101 and size em up.
 
Back again, found the solution. I did not need a battery, although I did locate one at NAPA that only required a slight modification to the vent tube routing.

I found out why I kept getting MAF part numbers when seeking a MAP sensor for the car. Ford has decided that their MAP, MAF, and IAT sensors are all so reliable, they’ve started making them all into a single $160+ module that they have started using on everything from the Focus to E450 Vans. They first started using them in 2003 and have included the exact module in more models of cars/engines each year since, up to at least 2008. I haven’t been under the hood of any 2009 models yet, but with the pattern of their increase in usage, I’d bet they’ll be around a while. (joegr, Gen2 LS V8 does have one, it's just integrated into this combo module) :)

Well, between the fact it’s $160+ and supposedly the most reliable sensor in a Ford, I was hesitant to just run out and buy one. I stopped by a friend’s junkyard (http://www.jordanautoparts.com/) and showed him the list of vehicles that part fit in, and since they don’t deal with any sensors of any sort, he simply told me to walk on the hill and find what I needed and he only charged me $5.

Armed with a new sensor, I popped the hood, minute or two it was in, hooked up my computer, killed the code, fired it up, SAME CODE… REALLY happy I didn’t buy the new one for $160+.

Well, in my researching with the service guy at the local garage and also on the internet, I learned that module operates on a 5V circuit powered by the PCM. I also learned that the PCM is covered by an EPA mandated 8yr/80,000mi warranty. So I wasn’t too overly distressed about still having the issue.

Not wanting to give up quite yet, wanted to rule out any wiring issues or anything, I broke out a passive network cable tracer I have. I use it in my work to locate a single network cable in bundles of hundreds of cables. It clips on a cable, outside the insulation, sends a signal up the wire than can be traced with a handheld wand. Not sure of the effect this might have on the PCM, I disconnected the battery, then unplugged the PCM. I connected the tracer at the MAF module started tracing it out, finally getting back to the PCM connector. Wire identified with no wire damage found, I removed my tracer, reconnected the PCM, then the battery. Fired up the car, tested the voltage at the PCM, 5V on the button.

Discouraged, thinking either I was going crazy or the car already was, I called my service guy,, he said run the multi-meter at the different stops along the path to the MAF module to see if I could ID where the extra voltage was getting into the system at. Did as instructed, once I got to the EGR module I started reading 5.4V, well out of specs… I have no idea where the extra 0.4V comes from, but it was there, culprit found…

Called around, all parts stores called it a “dealer only” part. Called all the dealers, they wanted $150+ for it. Hopped on rockauto.com and found it for $84. Checked, they had the DCCV for $105 too. Both were also authentic Motorcraft parts.

I would have never thought a bad EGR module could cause a P0108 MAP high voltage CEL code, but it did. Dealer explained it as the EGR valve was going bad, causing the EVP sensor (the EGR valve and EVP sensor make up the EGR Module) to put out high voltage to trigger a CEL for EGR in the PCM, but it wasn’t bad enough to trigger the proper code, but that the MAP portion of the MAF module was sensitive enough to the over-voltage that it sent it’s own code…

Now all that’s left is installing the new ceramic pads all the way around and having the rotors all turned. Hopefully that gets rid of the “service parking brake” message I’m getting more and more frequently (parking brake works great)…

Pete... Newbie? :rolleyes:
 
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the service manual

joegr, also wanted to thank you for providing the link to the service manual even though I had already seen it in other threads throughout the forums for my issues. As stated above though, the more links to useful info such as that the better. I have been coming here much longer than I have had an account, this P0108 issue has been my first that wasn't addressed elsewhere...

Owlman or whoever is hosting the manual... If you would not mind, I would love to have a copy of the files. I could host it on my server as a mirror. I might be able to do something with repairing the page to page crosslinks as well. If so I'd be willing to share the repaired version also. PM me if this sounds good and I can provide you a way of sending the files.
 
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Rifleman@LaymansPC.com said:
Now all that’s left is installing the new ceramic pads all the way around and having the rotors all turned. Hopefully that gets rid of the “service parking brake” message I’m getting more and more frequently (parking brake works great)…

Pete... Newbie? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

That would be failure of the ABS module. Mine was replaced under warranty.
 
I was hoping that since the pads are wore almost out (60k+ miles on the stocks) that was the reason for the error. It started about two weeks ago and has became more frequent.
 
LS4me said:
That would be failure of the ABS module. Mine was replaced under warranty.
Click to expand...

The electric parking brake has nothing at all to do with the ABS module. It has its on module as part of the assembly in the trunk that pulls the parking brake cable. There are a few known faults with these. Search the forum.
 
So, are you saying that the MAF assembly also has a MAP sensor in it? I can believe that it might have an AP sensor, but I don't recall seeing any vacuum lines hooked to it. Without such a line, there is no way it could sense manifold pressure, because the throttle plate is between the sensor and the manifold.
 
FYI Your E-brake message has no ties to your brake pads being low. You have an electronic E-brake which have some problems. Search it.
 
The 04's have a known software issue with the electric parking brake module. There is a TSB recommending that the module be replaced (if the car were still under warranty.) Do you always only get the waring after starting the car? (That is to say that it never just pops up while you are driving around.) Then it usually won't reset until after another start or two? If so, it is likely a calibration issue that comes up due to the combination of software bug and your battery getting a little weak. It can also be triggered sometimes by turning the key back on briefly just after you shut the car down. AFAIK, this is just something that is annoying, but does not lead to actual failure.
 
pektel said:
Okay, about the correct, vented battery. Check this thread. I have a properly installed Optima Yellow Top, and vented to the exterior using the same vent location. Post 18 has pics of the venting:

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?t=48188

Sorry I got in late on this one.
Click to expand...

Thats ok, better late than never ;)

On my 04, the vent hose that exits the car has body plug grommet molded to it to make the seal where it exits. I was looking to avoid rerouting the stock vent, and refuse to have a battery with the additional GM sidepost terminals in any of my Fords, I have see too many like the burnt one in the thread you linked.
 
yeah, I had to epoxy the fitting at the trunk floor to secure it. But she holds strong. I wrapped the metal holding bracket in electrical tape to prevent what happened to thaat other battery. That, and mine fits VERY snug. I've thrown the car around pretty hard, and it hasn't budged.

The sidepost terminals are capped as well.
 
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