An Urgent Message

foxpaws said:
And Calabrio - one of the prettiest places on earth are the Berkshires in the fall - they are magical. Hopefully Wilkerson's fires won't stretch that far.
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I was up there for thanksgiving, in Williamstown, MA.
 
foxpaws said:
If you go by Revelation... then we are under constant threat of the end of the world as we know it - so, at some point, one of these predictions will come true. There have been thousands, probably more, in the past - there will be thousands more in the future.

Why pay more attention to Wilkerson than any of the other prophecies regarding the 'end of the world as we know it'?

I was pointing out he has done this lots, and guess what? We are still here. His track record obviously isn't that good.

Maybe Wilkerson and God have their communication lines a bit mixed up. Perhaps he is off by a millennium or two or a thousand...

And Calabrio - one of the prettiest places on earth are the Berkshires in the fall - they are magical. Hopefully Wilkerson's fires won't stretch that far.
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I wasn't paying attention to Wilkerson until Shag brought it up and you haters started taking potshots at him. Maybe you should think twice about attacking Christians reflexively. But 'having communication lines mixed up' is a far cry from needing medication. Perhaps if you leftoids stopped using so much hyperbole, you wouldn't get such a strong reaction.

probably about 4 billion or so more years. that's about the time the sun will become a red giant and either engulf the earth, or come very close to it. congradulations. you found a prediction within the bible that will come true at a time nobody will be left to see it.(well, at least not on earth)
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Uh-huh. Not. The Bible is very specific about prophecy, and although I don't know if it will happen in my lifetime, it will certainly happen sooner than 4 billion years, or 4 million, or even 40,000. And it's not the sun that will do it.
 
fossten said:
I wasn't paying attention to Wilkerson until Shag brought it up and you haters started taking potshots at him. Maybe you should think twice about attacking Christians reflexively. But 'having communication lines mixed up' is a far cry from needing medication. Perhaps if you leftoids stopped using so much hyperbole, you wouldn't get such a strong reaction.
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I never said that he needed medication or that he was on drugs... best not to lump all of us liberals in one boat... Each of the conservatives here travels in their own little skiff... I have names for each of your tiny vessels...;)

I thought Wilkerson did great work in New York early in his career dealing with kids and drugs and gangs. He should return to those early successes, because I think that is where his real calling is. Not doom and gloom prophecies that don't really help anyone.

And I would never reflexively attack Christians. I know you don't think I am a Christian, Foss, but I am.
 
hrmwrm said:
as stated, bible prophecy has been wrong before and will be wrong again. so much for truth in the bible.
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Name one.


and WE HATERS(your words. i'd use skeptic or similar) aren't taking potshots at him. you tell me the difference between him and any other loon that has said the world was going to end in the last 1000 years. when you make such claims, you open yourself up to ridicule. considering he's been wrong before, it would be a fair assumption to admit he's crying wolf.(some people always seek attention, whether it be good or bad).
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No, I'm comfortable using the word 'haters.' You've spewed enough vitriol to suffice.
 
hrmwrm said:
there is no reliable/irrefutable historical evidence of jesus written within his time. there is no definitive proof he ever existed. but then we were talking prophecies, and was asked to name one that failed.

jesus himself was a prophecy. and fails to live up to the points of the prophecy.(there are many, which many he fails to be tied to)
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There is plenty of evidence Jesus existed. There were many eyewitnesses from whom we have written accounts. You might as well demand physical proof that George Washington existed.

Even the notoriously anti-Christian mainstream media admits He existed.

But even if there weren't, absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence.
 
hrmwrm said:
eyewitnesses? that lived in the day of jesus? the accounts of jesus don't appear until after his death. not from people who would have personally known or seen him in life.

and absence of evidence is very telling of a man who was supposed to have such a following. there should be lots written from historians of the day.
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Moving the goalposts again? Based on your 'burden of proof,' nobody can prove that Alexander the Great or Julius Caesar existed either.

[hrmwrm stamps foot] But I want proof!!!!!

Matthew 16:4 - A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas.
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Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were eyewitnesses, as was the apostle Paul, who saw Jesus and wrote several books of the Bible.

Flavius Josephus wrote a lot about Jesus, as did several other Roman and Greek historians, such as Juvenal, Tacitus, Seneca, Suetonius, Pliny the Younger, Lucian, and Celsus, none of which were Christians.

The Jews acknowledge the existence of Jesus in the Talmud, despite rejecting Him as the Messiah. The fact that the Masoretic Text of the Old Testament is preserved from hundreds of years before Christ in Hebrew, coupled with the fact that Jesus appeared in Greek manuscripts exactly according to prophecy hundreds of years after the Old Testament was written, is strong evidence as well. The Greek New Testament verifies the prophecies in the Old Testament, and the Greek New Testament has been shown to be historically accurate.

According to the generally accepted historical record, Christians in the first and second century were persecuted and fed to the lions within the lifetime of people who knew Jesus. The fact that they believed He was real and chose to be tortured to death under Nero rather than deny the gospel lends strong credibility as well. Most people would not choose a violent, tortuous death to defend a lie. Most wouldn't choose it to defend the truth.

I've offered evidence, but not proof. You, on the other hand, will be unable to prove Jesus didn't exist.

Now, it's your turn to 'offer' some evidence. And just saying 'baloney' to mine won't cut it. Nor will continuing to move the goalposts.
 
Fossten he lacks the faith to believe, I believe that Jesus existed and that is enough for me.
 
hrmwrm said:
mattew, mark, luke , and john were NOT eyewitnesses. all writings are of a much later date.
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Yes they were. They were his disciples.

julius caesar and alexander the great have lots written in history about them. nice try, but lame arguement.
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So does Jesus. Lame comeback.

josephus flavius, has a passage in "antiquities of the jews" about jesus, brother of james. hardly telling.
the "testimonium flavinius" is highly disputed, and considered since the 18th century to be at a minimum an embellishment, if not an outright forgery.

juvenal also is late in the 1st to early 2nd century. hardly an eyewitness.

seneca is not an eyewitness, but had correspondance with paul. this was also during nero's reign. that puts it after the supposed death of christ. sounds like paul was trying to get him to become christian within the letters.

tacitus wrote in his "annals" about 116ce about the roman fires in 64 during nero's reign. written as late as it was does not make for an historical account.

i can continue, but as i said, we WERE discussing prophecy, and whether christ fulfilled the prophecy, not whether he existed or not. that was the arguement you created. look back, and you will see. i stated bible prophecy has been wrong before, and will be wrong again. you even quoted it from me.

and if you wish, i can make an arguement against paul, who seems to be the only original source of a messiahship. this of course gets into the dead sea scrolls and proves there was a sect of believers in a messiah within the jewish community dating before jesus as well. so it was not a new concept.

should try a read of "the messiah before jesus"by israel knohl. could send it pdf by email(7.44mb) pm if you wish.
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As I suspected, your entire argument is 'nuh-uh.' You still haven't specified which prophecy Jesus didn't fulfil.

You FAIL.

If you really want to learn something, try this book.
 
Ah, but mr Worm, have you read Lamb, The Gospel According to Biff? I think most of your questions regarding Christ's childhood could be answered there. I especially like the game of 'bring the lizard back to life' and how they always argued on who got to be Moses when they played 'parting of the Red Sea'.
 
Must have taken you days to find that baloney on the net. Yawn. hrmwrm, you cut and paste and don't link, and your cut and pastes are filled with incoherency.

If you try to deny the genealogy of Jesus, you must accept the virgin birth. If you deny the virgin birth, you accept His genealogy.

You can't have it both ways.

Joseph’s paternal grandmother, Estha, married Mathan, a descendant of David, through Salomon, and gave him a son; Jacob, whereupon Mathan died. Estha married Mathat, another descendent of David, through Nathan (a less known son of King David). According to the tradition she gave her second husband a son, namely Heli.

So, according to the tradition, Jacob and Heli, who both have been named fathers of Joseph, are half-brothers, having the same mother.

Heli married, but died, having had no children. Following Jewish custom, Jacob married Heli’s widow, in order to give posterity to his brother, which he also did. One of these children was Joseph.

This ancient tradition, if it be true, would render both Matthew’s and Luke’s genealogies of Jesus absolutely spot on correct, even though they differ dramatically since one might describe the family line with the biological father (Jacob), while the other makes the description with the father according to the law (Heli).

EITHER WAY, Jesus is a descendant of David.

Neither the Bible nor the Talmud differentiate between adoptive sons and biological sons. The lines are based on inheritance.

You FAIL.
 
hrmwrm said:
as stated, bible prophecy has been wrong before and will be wrong again. so much for truth in the bible.

but technically, you are correct.(possibly) could be a big a$$ meteor comes ripping through the sky at any time between now and then. but the sun engulfing the earth(or nearly engulfing) is a given.

and WE HATERS(your words. i'd use skeptic or similar) aren't taking potshots at him. you tell me the difference between him and any other loon that has said the world was going to end in the last 1000 years. when you make such claims, you open yourself up to ridicule. considering he's been wrong before, it would be a fair assumption to admit he's crying wolf.(some people always seek attention, whether it be good or bad).

and it's not attacking a christian reflexively, it's going after yet another doomsayer who falls in a long history of doomsayers who have all 1 thing in common. they were wrong. but in this case, not the first time wrong.

besides, can't happen until the temple is rebuilt on the temple mount.:N
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ARE YOU GUYS GONNA "LET UP" MY EYES ARE TIRED AND i WANTA KILL MYSELF. wheww !!!
 
hrmwrm said:
i don't know if you've ever heard that the 10 commandments can be found in the egyptian book of the dead as well. wasn't moses leading the jews away from egypt?
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You're quoting Greek mythology as a way of supporting your claims.

I don't think I need to answer any more of your "proofs." :rolleyes:
 
fossten said:
You're quoting Greek mythology as a way of supporting your claims.

I don't think I need to answer any more of your "proofs." :rolleyes:
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Actually he is quoting historical fact which seems to be a great deal more than you have been doing. Can you give us any provenance for the authenticity of the Gospels. Please provide some. No! quoting from them will not suffice.
 
Glenn said:
Actually he is quoting historical fact which seems to be a great deal more than you have been doing. Can you give us any provenance for the authenticity of the Gospels. Please provide some. No! quoting from them will not suffice.
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Greek mythology is historical fact? :rolleyes:
 
fossten said:
Greek mythology is historical fact? :rolleyes:
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Are you suggesting that Moses is Greek mythology because as to that I would not know but as far as the Egyptian Book of the Dead there are enough copies taken from Egyptian tombs to make them an historical fact.
 
Glenn said:
Are you suggesting that Moses is Greek mythology because as to that I would not know but as far as the Egyptian Book of the Dead there are enough copies taken from Egyptian tombs to make them an historical fact.
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I'm referring to his usage of the story of Prometheus as evidence that Christianity is fable.

Do you need me to walk you back through the thread?
 
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