thethirdeye88
Well-Known LVC Member
come on guys...lets band together to show these BMW and AMG guys up!!!...
we all need 400rwhp 6spd LS's with LSD's...
- Thread starter thethirdeye88
- Start date
'00GrayGhost
Active LVC Member
Hell yeah! I'm with you. I need to win the lottery frirst, though.
HyeLifeLS
Dedicated LVC Member
Yep, good luck to you two
come on guys...lets band together to show these BMW and AMG guys up!!!...
If Lincoln had done it I would not have gotten an M5
At this point I found it safer to get a car with what I wanted that was under warranty than to take the risk and do a heavily modified LS.
97stscaddy
Dedicated LVC Member
Got 10 grand I can borrow? I could do it with 10 grand pretty easy. 
Slap a nice SC Cobra motor in it mated to a Tremec 6 speed transmission, do the 4:10 swap, gut all the electronics and rewire it with some stuff that will actually work.
Here's the thing though... For the money, the AMGs and BMW Ms will be more reliable. They have Billions of dollars sunk into the research and development of their products. You could build a fast LS for a couple grand no problem, but to do it right, make it tough and reliable will take some money, and will probably not be worth it in the end. Its not just speed that matters anymore. You've gotta be able to turn, and more importantly, you need to be able to stop. You also need the frame and chassis of the car to be able to handle the extra power. Bigger driveshaft, larger axles, tougher balljoints, better hubs that are built to handle high speeds with ease.
Slap a nice SC Cobra motor in it mated to a Tremec 6 speed transmission, do the 4:10 swap, gut all the electronics and rewire it with some stuff that will actually work.
Here's the thing though... For the money, the AMGs and BMW Ms will be more reliable. They have Billions of dollars sunk into the research and development of their products. You could build a fast LS for a couple grand no problem, but to do it right, make it tough and reliable will take some money, and will probably not be worth it in the end. Its not just speed that matters anymore. You've gotta be able to turn, and more importantly, you need to be able to stop. You also need the frame and chassis of the car to be able to handle the extra power. Bigger driveshaft, larger axles, tougher balljoints, better hubs that are built to handle high speeds with ease.
chocolat1701
Dedicated LVC Member
yup hopefully lincoln will come out with a REAL LS replacement and add some muscle to it
Rodewaryer
Dedicated LVC Member
If Lincoln had done it I would not have gotten an M5
You definitely chose right, M5's are serious business.
The top MSRP for a V8 LS was around $48K (the 2nd Gen V8s started at ~$40K). That's still significantly less than an M5 or anything AMG.
thethirdeye88
Well-Known LVC Member
GAAAHHHHH!!!!!!....whyyy...lincoln...why must you curse us...but i really love the car, and its very fun in the rain...kinda feels like its got a bunch of power then...but i really like the ///M3's...especially that ///M3 CSL!...
HyeLifeLS
Dedicated LVC Member
ILLS
Dedicated LVC Member
Got 10 grand I can borrow? I could do it with 10 grand pretty easy.
Slap a nice SC Cobra motor in it mated to a Tremec 6 speed transmission, do the 4:10 swap, gut all the electronics and rewire it with some stuff that will actually work.
10 grand would be a little bit of an understatement there.
d-i-s-t-o-r-t-e-d
Active LVC Member
thethirdeye88
Well-Known LVC Member
understatement?...HA!...but yeah, a 4.6 mated to a T-56 and a stout rear end, $h!t ton of braces would be a monster...talk about a sleeper...hmmm...how difficult would that be?...i mean, painless could take care of all the wiring and MSD could take care of all the electronics...just remove all of the factory electronics and replace with aftermarket...in theory it sounds like it would work...but would a 4.6 fit?...for being so small they are huge...and a t-56 might be a little big for the tranny tunnel, but you can always cut that out and weld in a new one...they make them, probably get one at jegs, summit, or year one...
thethirdeye88
Well-Known LVC Member
Then again you can't drive the CSL in the rain or even cold weather. lol
why would you want to drive a CSL in the rain?...and how cold of weather?...not to mention you would be dropping so much cash for one that you would definitely have a spare vehicle...how much are CSL's?...
I think you severely understate the complexities of such an endeavor. making a 4.6L w/T-56 FIT wouldn't be that bad. But painless doesn't make harnesses for the 4.6L, and MSD only does ignition add-on's; you still require a factory computer.
Mod motors aren't that inexpensive to build; we're not talking 350's and 5.0's here. To give you some prospective... a rotating assembly capable of holding about 600 HP will run you upwards of $1600-$1700; throw in the forged crank and you'll be looking at the high side of the teens, low $2000. Plus you've got block prep... punch it, align-hone the mains and deck it... about another $400-$500. Stage III PI heads from patriot: $2000, Gasket set: $300, ARP mains and head studs: $400. Water pump and HV/HP oil pump... $500 So you've got a long-block minus intake and cams... you've already dumped $5200 on the low side. This isn't including your forced induction. Best case scenario in an N/A application that would be street-able, you might hit 350-380 RWHP.
Turbo set-up: $3000-$4000
Required engine electronics (COP units, MAF, Throttle body, fuel injectors, fuel system able to support 600+ HP, so on and so on): $2500ish
As you can see, you've already burnt through better than $10,000... and that's just to be able to run the engine and get the kind of power out of it you want.
Add in a built T-56 (long term reliability becomes questionable once you hit the 600HP mark): $2500
Custom drive shaft, half shafts and a Detroit or Eaton LSD or Locker: $2500
Fabrication to add additional uni-body support, build up the rear end, custom manufacture aluminum bushings for the IRS... I'd guess that would start out around the $2500 mark.
Already up to over $18K and things such as radiator, ECU set-up, tuning, fabrication of various mounts and accessories... still aren't accounted for.
To do the kind of thing you're talking about would cost easily $25k or more. Basically you're talking about running a mustang or cobra with an LS body. Take your $25k, go buy an 03 Cobra for $20k... throw the other $5k into a kenne bell blower, toss another $5k on top of it for a Maximum Motorsports suspension and you'll have a 600RWHP car that will eat factory Z-06 Vette's for lunch... all for half the price.
Sometimes things just are not practical... Is it do-able? Absolutely... But is it cost effective? No way! For $4-5K you could have forged rods and crank made for the 3.9, another $5k to get a turbo installed and maybe $4k for drive-line mods and you'll have your 400-450 RWHP... for under $15k. This is why swapping between engine families just is not popular these days; the cost is rarely worth the results.
ILLS
Dedicated LVC Member
What do I know? I only do this stuff for a living....and have also done swaps of similar complexity to the one described before.
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
An alternative approach
In pure go-fast, you would have to spend about 1K to duplicate my LS. I've sprayed as much as a 150 shot on gas without hurting anything. DIY, adding the methanol requires the fuel cell, the pump, filter and the bypass regulator plus lines and fittings. The methanol is easier on the engine. To go further, the cost of new parts for extra strength is---$750 for core 4.0 Jag engine, $600-$800 each for forged pistons and rods, and cost for cyl honing, balancing, and gaskets. I do my own assembly. Machine work varies by locality; I don't have gaskets yet. I believe you can get a 300 HP boost with the above; then add a pair of turbos and go on from there.You'll need an up-graded trans.
For extra traction, I have about $3500 in tires and wheels. To complete the job, I'll get another rear suspension and fit a 9" center section. Go to custom half shafts and driveshaft and cross-breed hub carriers. Brakes will depend on other components. By careful consideration in the catalog, Koni shocks are possible.
You have no idea what can be done 'til you read a few 'ricer' magazines. Six cylinder Toyota engines will stay together remarkably at 1K HP if you choose components wisely. The basic design of the Jag family of V-8 engine is better than the Toy I-6. The 4.6 requires cutting the hood of an LS or installing a dry-sump. The combo of turbos and spray/methanol makes for a mild engine with a hellacious potential. (See my comments in the HP section under 'Land Speed LS' and the build by IllS).
At the end of the day, my LS owes me nothing. I bought it new and have 111K miles on it. Any necessary work was done by the dealer during the 5K visits for oil, and I had a Lincoln loaner. I've personally replaced one coil. I'm on my second set of brakes and third set of tires. At present, I need a clockspring and the driver's seat heater quit several days ago.
If you want to play 'Whose is biggest', for the cost of a foreign super-sedan, you can have a Cobra Kit Car built that'll eat alive anything with four doors, and have enough left over to buy an Explorer for winter.
I'll drive my LS year around as I have since new. And with the original engine and trans and a few judicious additions, I hold TWO one-mile Land Speed Records.
KenS from Ben's Place
In pure go-fast, you would have to spend about 1K to duplicate my LS. I've sprayed as much as a 150 shot on gas without hurting anything. DIY, adding the methanol requires the fuel cell, the pump, filter and the bypass regulator plus lines and fittings. The methanol is easier on the engine. To go further, the cost of new parts for extra strength is---$750 for core 4.0 Jag engine, $600-$800 each for forged pistons and rods, and cost for cyl honing, balancing, and gaskets. I do my own assembly. Machine work varies by locality; I don't have gaskets yet. I believe you can get a 300 HP boost with the above; then add a pair of turbos and go on from there.You'll need an up-graded trans.
For extra traction, I have about $3500 in tires and wheels. To complete the job, I'll get another rear suspension and fit a 9" center section. Go to custom half shafts and driveshaft and cross-breed hub carriers. Brakes will depend on other components. By careful consideration in the catalog, Koni shocks are possible.
You have no idea what can be done 'til you read a few 'ricer' magazines. Six cylinder Toyota engines will stay together remarkably at 1K HP if you choose components wisely. The basic design of the Jag family of V-8 engine is better than the Toy I-6. The 4.6 requires cutting the hood of an LS or installing a dry-sump. The combo of turbos and spray/methanol makes for a mild engine with a hellacious potential. (See my comments in the HP section under 'Land Speed LS' and the build by IllS).
At the end of the day, my LS owes me nothing. I bought it new and have 111K miles on it. Any necessary work was done by the dealer during the 5K visits for oil, and I had a Lincoln loaner. I've personally replaced one coil. I'm on my second set of brakes and third set of tires. At present, I need a clockspring and the driver's seat heater quit several days ago.
If you want to play 'Whose is biggest', for the cost of a foreign super-sedan, you can have a Cobra Kit Car built that'll eat alive anything with four doors, and have enough left over to buy an Explorer for winter.
I'll drive my LS year around as I have since new. And with the original engine and trans and a few judicious additions, I hold TWO one-mile Land Speed Records.
KenS from Ben's Place
Yup...
The "super-sedan's" as you call them are nice... but, if you're not the type to live in a multi-million dollar home and give Cadillacs for Christmas presents... There are a lot better routes to go; Cheaper cars that perform on a totally different level (far above). Besides, most people buy those cars for the "look at me factor". Not for the performance; when you want a sports car, you don't buy a sedan... you buy the SPORTS CAR. When you want to show how much money you have, you buy an AMG.
If you have $12000 you can just send your LS off to McLaren and they will do a ton of things to it. They say it will put down 350rwhp. They also to a full suspension and brakes. Its a roots style supercharger that they use to get you the extra ponies. That is if you have $12000 and another car so you can be without your LS.
thethirdeye88
Well-Known LVC Member
yeah, the whole 4.6/T-56 idea is a pipe dream, but it would be Oh so cool...but what i am going to do is just get a CAI, exhaust and one of those SCT Xcal2's...i know it doesnt put me THAT far ahead for the HP and TQ, but it will help out alot...but a forged rotating assembly would be super nice, and if you added in ported and polished heads would be beneficial as well...but i think i will just stick with basic bolt ons and that SCT, wait and save some money and pick up an ///M3...i love those, but i also love the LS...only ones i see around here are bone stock...i only have wheels, tires, Eibach kit, and brakes at the moment, but its fun to roll up next to them and see the difference...i'm wanting a spare hood, trunk and mirrors so i can paint them black to really set it off...
but those 2jz's are mean...so are the SR20's, and the not so new VQ's...those japs have their sh!t down...plus i love me some drifting...tire smoking goodness...BBQ rubber...giggity...
but those 2jz's are mean...so are the SR20's, and the not so new VQ's...those japs have their sh!t down...plus i love me some drifting...tire smoking goodness...BBQ rubber...giggity...
97stscaddy
Dedicated LVC Member
Hey, I didn't say it would be NEW stuff.
Dude... where do you get this FOCKED UP information??? This is like the 3rd time you've thrown something out there that is totally 100% wrong... as in... it's been beaten to death a long time ago that it's wrong.
McLaren never finished the prototype car, they don't have any kits, they don't do work on LS's... sh!t, I'm pretty sure the "McLaren" grill isn't even made by McLaren; I believe it's a copy of their prototype.
Research stuff before you commit it to writing; it'll make you look a lot less "slow".
Everyone is entitled to their choice in forms of "racing"....
BUT
Drifting is absolutely retarded if you ask me. First, it's subjective; there is no statistical, solid basis for determining who "wins". Second, I really do not see the point in power-sliding around a track. Third, it isn't really racing at all; if it were racing (which is based upon numerical figures... aka.. time), they wouldn't be power-sliding around the track because that gives up huge amounts of time.
I'm sorry... drifting... it's not racing, it's just getting paid to goof-off.
Then again, I don't really call NASCAR racing either; AND HE MAKES A LEFT... HE MAKES ANOTHER LEFT!!!!!!!... what will he do next Joe??? HOLY SH!T, HE MADE ANOTHER LEFT!!!!
BLAH
thethirdeye88
Well-Known LVC Member
never said drifting was racing...i just love the big smoky drifts around tracks, mountains, parking lots...etc...i dont really car who wins, and its not really about that...you said it right...getting paid to goof off...if you said its not fun to break your tires loose around a corner you are a liar...its just fun, plain and simple...now time attack, autocross, and various other actual "racing" sports are actual racing...not necessarily drifting...its fun man...come on, lighten up...