Driver's Side Cat Replaced

Prophecor

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My Mark had her cat replaced, recently. Burned up the driver's side one where you replace it by installing the entire exhaust manifold. A nightmare project if you go by the book. Tookit to a prettysavy mechanic, though. He was able to replace the cat by removing the steering box, instead of taking the sub-frame apart, or the ridiculously time consuming book way.

The Mark runs 90percent better. the EGR tube required replacement as well. Once the cat came off, replaced the Ho2 sensor, and the beast now has so much life back that it's actually a pleasure to drive again. No more stalling, sputtering or back-firing. My child is just about complete.
 
Why did the cat burn up in the first place? It should last the life of the car unless their was a problem somewhere with the engine's performance.

It's cool that it went smoothly for you. It looks like a PITA!
 
Odd that a car would go. I think your the second person ever I had read doing so. More often than not, its just a faulty O2 sensor which makes it look like the cat is bad.

But if you had backfiring, maybe......
 
should have just put the kooks headers on and been done with it. You were already half way there ;)
 
Catalytic converters normally do not last the life of the vehicle. They tend to get clogged over time with various grades of gasoline and their impurities and the additaves being used. After about 140k miles, mine gradually clogged up to the point that my Mark was losing power, getting sluggish, getting bad gas mileage, and running hot. I basically gutted the converters and installed a pair of MIL Eliminators on the downstream O2 sensors to fool the OBD II into thinking it still had cats, and completely fixed the problem. It never runs hot anymore, it has gobs of power like it did when I first got it, and it is getting tremendous gas mileage (average 24.7 mpg). I've had to do this on several of my older vehicles I have owned in the past. Catalytic converters are fine for the first few years of the car's life. But over time they do indeed get stopped up. That is where the "rotten egg" or "sulfur" smell comes from on older cars with EFI and Cats. When they get clogged, you could actually catch the car on fire because they get extremely hot. I have actually seen a cat on an old 1980's Chrysler Fifth Avenue actually deteriorate while it was going down the road and spit red hot pieces of the ceramic bric onto the side of the road and catch the grass on fire. That was a sight! So if you start smelling a nasty smell from your exhaust or your car starts running hot or losing power, it is probably your cats clogging up. You could use my really cheap method or buy new converters. It's up to you.
 
Catalytic converters normally do not last the life of the vehicle. They tend to get clogged over time with various grades of gasoline and their impurities and the additaves being used. After about 140k miles, mine gradually clogged up to the point that my Mark was losing power, getting sluggish, getting bad gas mileage, and running hot. I basically gutted the converters and installed a pair of MIL Eliminators on the downstream O2 sensors to fool the OBD II into thinking it still had cats, and completely fixed the problem. It never runs hot anymore, it has gobs of power like it did when I first got it, and it is getting tremendous gas mileage (average 24.7 mpg). I've had to do this on several of my older vehicles I have owned in the past. Catalytic converters are fine for the first few years of the car's life. But over time they do indeed get stopped up. That is where the "rotten egg" or "sulfur" smell comes from on older cars with EFI and Cats. When they get clogged, you could actually catch the car on fire because they get extremely hot. I have actually seen a cat on an old 1980's Chrysler Fifth Avenue actually deteriorate while it was going down the road and spit red hot pieces of the ceramic bric onto the side of the road and catch the grass on fire. That was a sight! So if you start smelling a nasty smell from your exhaust or your car starts running hot or losing power, it is probably your cats clogging up. You could use my really cheap method or buy new converters. It's up to you.

A convertor should last the life of the vehicle unless there is an issue. Read up on it. It's the truth. They don't clog up for no reason.
 
A convertor should last the life of the vehicle unless there is an issue. Read up on it. It's the truth. They don't clog up for no reason.

agreed,my mark viii exhaust has 230k on it,totally stock,also got to love the fact they used stainless steel for the exhaust,it still looks new,

i also have a chevy Beretta with 201k on it with stock catalytics,no problems,of course that didnt have stainless and i have replaced mufflers and tailpipes over the years,but the cat is fine.

i lost one catalytic in my life and that was on my 88 turbo coupe,due to an o2 sensor dumping excessive fuel in to it ,combined with high boost temps,the cat didnt last long,but that was expected.

if the car has no issues and you dont let the vehicle running at idle for half its life you almost never will have an issue with the cat.
 
I've been a mechanic most of my life and I have seen literally hundreds of "clogged" catalytic converters on other people's cars as well as my own. I think the Chrysler Fifth Avenue incident was the most dramatic of all. True, the cat should last the life of the car if there are "no issues". But how often does a car go over 150k miles without some "issues". Faulty oxygen sensors, blowby caused by worn rings and cylinders sending crankcase vapors through the intake system, dirty intake manifolds and air filters, low quality gasoline, additives that are not cat safe, silicone based lubricants that can enter the intake or exhaust tract, etc. Many, factors can cause a the catalytic converter material to become "oversaturated" to the point that it is no longer porous. This can cause many problems that I have seen in the past including increased backpressure leading to overheating, blown head gaskets, cracked heads, and burnt valves. Most of the time, the owner doesn't actually notice the decrease in power caused by a clogged cat because it happens so gradually over time as to be almomst imperceptable. The most noticeable change I've seen is the hotter engine temps and the decreased fuel economy that clogged cats cause. I realize that a lot of people have cars that have hundreds of thousands of miles with no perceptable catalytic converter problems. And that is great. But a catalytic converter has only a finite amount of prorosity and can only obsorb a finite amount of unburned hydrocarbons. Once it reaches its limit and can't obsorb or convert any more, problems will ensue.
 
I've been a mechanic most of my life and I have seen literally hundreds of "clogged" catalytic converters on other people's cars as well as my own. I think the Chrysler Fifth Avenue incident was the most dramatic of all. True, the cat should last the life of the car if there are "no issues". But how often does a car go over 150k miles without some "issues". Faulty oxygen sensors, blowby caused by worn rings and cylinders sending crankcase vapors through the intake system, dirty intake manifolds and air filters, low quality gasoline, additives that are not cat safe, silicone based lubricants that can enter the intake or exhaust tract, etc. Many, factors can cause a the catalytic converter material to become "oversaturated" to the point that it is no longer porous. This can cause many problems that I have seen in the past including increased backpressure leading to overheating, blown head gaskets, cracked heads, and burnt valves. Most of the time, the owner doesn't actually notice the decrease in power caused by a clogged cat because it happens so gradually over time as to be almomst imperceptable. The most noticeable change I've seen is the hotter engine temps and the decreased fuel economy that clogged cats cause. I realize that a lot of people have cars that have hundreds of thousands of miles with no perceptable catalytic converter problems. And that is great. But a catalytic converter has only a finite amount of prorosity and can only obsorb a finite amount of unburned hydrocarbons. Once it reaches its limit and can't obsorb or convert any more, problems will ensue.

:I Thanks for your insight, some things I knew, But alot I didn't.
Some gas treatment haven't changed their chemical components since the old days of leaded gas and may harm your cats. "make sure their cat safe as thaywood mentioned". If you use injector cleaner it should be ok, But watch out for some carb cleaners.:)
 
The cats will burn out if there's too much fuel entered into the system. In my case, raw fuel being introduced into the cat caused it to burn much hotter than it's supposed to, causing a rupture. The O2 senors are the likely culprit as it was replaced the life of the car did as well. As for the Kooks headers, do they make a special application for them? Many of the threads I seem to remember, they require a lot of bending and are just a real _ _ tch to put in.
 
cats last the life of the car unless there is an issue AND THE VEHICLE CONTINUES TO BE DRIVEN WITH SAID ISSUE!!!!!!


while you may have been a mechanic most of your life you likely are stuck in the old train of thought. an engine needs restriction to work properly, gutting a cat can only help becuase its too much of a restriction, and my personal favorite.....cats are a replacement item.



my mazda has 230k miles on the original cat. ive seen 97+ f150s come into the shop with 300k and no problems to the cat. the ONLY times ive seen a failed cat was due to impact damage or a problem where raw fuel was allowed into the exhaust for whatever reason and the vehicle continued to be driven.
 
I had a '79 Merc before that the cat's clogged on. I would let basically no air through at all and stall out right away if it would even start. One of the guys I was with when we had it on the hoist took a good sized hammer to the cat and then said 'try it now' and it fired right up. We cut it off & replaced it with a straight pipe and that solved that problem :)
 
cats last the life of the car unless there is an issue AND THE VEHICLE CONTINUES TO BE DRIVEN WITH SAID ISSUE!!!!!!


while you may have been a mechanic most of your life you likely are stuck in the old train of thought. an engine needs restriction to work properly, gutting a cat can only help becuase its too much of a restriction, and my personal favorite.....cats are a replacement item.



my mazda has 230k miles on the original cat. ive seen 97+ f150s come into the shop with 300k and no problems to the cat. the ONLY times ive seen a failed cat was due to impact damage or a problem where raw fuel was allowed into the exhaust for whatever reason and the vehicle continued to be driven.

True again. The vehicle must be driven with said issues. Case in point: I have a 1994 Explorer Sport 2WD with the 4.0L pushrod V-6 and 5-speed transmission. When it reached about 120k miles, the engine started using about a quart and a half of oil between changes. There were no leaks, no smoke, no knocks, no check engine light. Nothing that would indicate that there was a problem. Because of my limited budget, all I could do at the time was put it on a diagnostic computer to see if there was a problem. No codes came up. I kept an eye on it for a while and just added a quart of oil every once in a while between changes. It finally started running hot and losing power. It finally blew a radiator hose while my wife was driving it, overheated, and cracked both heads. After I replaced the heads, head gaskets, intake manifold gaskets, thermostat, and belts and hoses, it continued to run hot and sluggish. But it wasn't using oil anymore. It turned out that the valve stem seals on two of the six cylinders were deteriorated and letting oil leak into the cylinders. The reason there was no smoke was because the catalytic converters were absorbing and converting the large carbon molecules from the burnt oil, something they were not designed to do. The reason the engine was running hot and getting sluggish was due to the raw burnt oil clogging up the converters, causing excess back pressure. It continued to run hot and sluggish after the head incident. I gutted both converters and have had zero problems since. It has more power and gets better gas mileage than it ever did before. Point is, it is not just a rich fuel mixture that can clog cats. Oversaturation due to burning oil can and will stop up a converter in no time. And most people don't realize the oil is burning because there will be no smoke.

And yes, engines need a certain amount of restriction in the exhaust to be street driveable. However, mufflers did a fine job before catalytic converters came along. And catalytic converters are for emissions control, not sound deadening or back pressure. If you gut or cut off your converters, you may need to install more restrictive (read "quieter") mufflers to make up the difference. But only if there is a noticeable drop in performance, which I haven't seen as of yet.

If your engine runs perfectly for hundreds of thousands of miles and you have no issues, yay for you. You've got a great car. But for the majority, there will be some issues. And a lot of people (like me) can't afford to spend the kind of money that new catalitic converters cost. And there are many factors that can cause a converter to clog. That's why in the 1970's and early 1980's, most cats were composed of ceramic beads coated with palladium and platinum. On these cats, there was a plug at the bottom that could be removed, allowing the beads to be emptied and replaced "when" the cat became clogged. The newer porous ceramic brick is more durable and less prone to clogging, but it still happens.

My Mark VIII runs better, has more power, and gets better gas mileage now than it did when I first bought it six years ago now that the cats are hollow. I like it. And it worked for me. That does not mean it will work for everybody. And with the MIL eliminators, there is no CEL. Nice.
 
Those pellet type convertors you are referring to were used mainly on GM products and were complete junk. The Monolyth or honeycomb is now the standard and is much more effective.

You are correct about the oil burning and the other various issues. If your vehicle had no issues then the cat will and should last forever, Like you have stated though it's not often the case due to fuel mixture, oil loss, head gasket leaks, etc.
 

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