Please, make your case for Obama...

Calabrio

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Put aside emotion.
Put aside the symbolism.
And put aside any liberal guilt you may have.
Please, tell me what the case for Obama is..

What policies does he embrace that will help the country?
And how will that policy actually help the country?
If nothing else, which specific principles of philosophy does he embrace that will strengthen the country, the economy, or the rights of the individual?

Is there anyone who can make a left-brained argument to support this candidate. I've discussed this with Obama supporters ranging from people who aren't interested in politics through high powered Washington attorneys. Other than the emotional appeal, can any Obama supporter actually defend and embrace his record, his philosophy, or the specifics related to the policies he's supported.

And please, for the sake of this tread, do not mention McCain or Bush.
If you support Obama, it should be despite McCain, not instead of him.
I'm not interested in a partisan argument, but one based on sound political and economic theory.
 
If I do this for Obama, will you make a case for McCain?
 
And initially you won't argue good or bad (because what maybe good for your vision of the country is different than what is good for my vision of the country) - you are just looking for firm policy.

A laundry list as it were?

Obama is for.... Obama will reduce taxes by... Obama's supreme court nominees will have this philosophy.

You are just looking for those statements - and right off the bat won't start arguing that you disagree, they are bad, the country will sink into a pool of socialist sewage.

OK?
 
And initially you won't argue good or bad (because what maybe good for your vision of the country is different than what is good for my vision of the country) - you are just looking for firm policy.

A laundry list as it were?

Obama is for.... Obama will reduce taxes by... Obama's supreme court nominees will have this philosophy.

You are just looking for those statements - and right off the bat won't start arguing that you disagree, they are bad, the country will sink into a pool of socialist sewage.

OK?

I wasn't singling you out, but anyway YOU'D like to present it is fine.
My main desire is to see a factual and fact supported presentation of Obama. Sadly, that hasn't been provided to me by the irresponsible media.

Ideally, I'd love to hear the specifics of what he's supporting and how they'll work. And since he clearly can't have made specific policy statements on every ill in the country, how he would philosophically be inclined to address them based on his legislative record and past statements.

And just as import, I genuinely want to know why you think that'll strengthen the country.

I don't mean to make this a Foxpawz v. Calabrio debate either.
Any/all Obama folks are encouraged to chime in.

And after everything is presented, both sides, I would hope that some dissection and debate would take place. But from a policy perspective, not just the personal one.
 
Posts Deleted.

Lets try to keep on topic.

Please, make your case for Obama...
 
Hey - what happened????

Why should I make a case if things just disappear?:confused: :confused:
 
At this point, I am now leaning toward Obama. Let me explain why...

First, is change.
Just his presence as President will imply change to the country and the rest of the world. What I hope for is that that "change" will be a morale booster and inspiration.

Second, taxes.
John McCain will lower everyone’s taxes, but unless you make more than $226,000 per year, your taxes get lowered a lot less than the wealthy. Under Senator Obama’s plan, mortal people like you an I (that make between $37,000 and $111,000 per year) will see more of a tax break with Obama than with McCain. Why is this important to me? Well, i believe that right now, lower income people need a bigger shot in the arm then the wealthy.

mccainobamataxplan.jpg


The VP factor.
I have a real fear that there is a possibility that neither of these candidates will live through their term. So I have to look and candidates, and frankly, I wouldnt elect Palin to be Dog Catcher.

He's not Bush
I believe GW was wrong on most of his policies, and I dont see McCain being all that different. I believe Obama will be considerably different. And I believe we need things to be different.

He's from Chicago
That, to me, means he is likely to help Illinois and Chicago more then McCain will (like all Presidents tend to do with their home state) I also think Obama being President will considerably help Chicago get the Olymipcs.

(Sorry, I had to mention McCain and Bush because it was part of my decision process)
 
Hey - what happened????

Why should I make a case if things just disappear?:confused: :confused:



I was trying to clear out the BS and offtopic conversation and trying to keep it within Calabrio's initial post request. If I accidentially deleted something incorrectly, I apologize.
 
Nope - that is great - thanks!!!

OK, just a tiny start...

Military and National Security.

Barack will get us out of the war in Iraq in a safe, sane way, within a realistic time frame.

He plans on rebuilding and restructuring the armed forces with a realistic, post cold war plan including emphasis on special ops, information, foreign language, human intelligence and counterinsurgency and stabilization skills.

Work in strengthening our relationship with our allies - I really believe that Barack can do this - he does have the respect of our allies' leaders. I also think that he has a much better chance on increasing our stature among the international community. I believe that he can help restore America's level of respect among the world's leaders and the world's citizens.

Create transparency for military contractors. I think that this is one of the obvious places where the government is spending way too much for way too little. Defense is still the top expense (other than entitlements) in the budget. This is an obvious place where extra funds could be gained by getting rid of no-bid contracting and supplemental budgets.

Civil Rights

Work to overturn the Supreme Court decision that limits minorities and women's ability to challenge pay discrimination. Obama will also work to pass the Fair Pay Act, and the Matthew Shepard Act.

Health Research/Reproductive Choice

Barack Obama will work to continue to support stem cell research with the Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act of 2007. He will also make preserving women's rights under Roe v Wade a priority, and opposes any constitutional amendment to overturn the Supreme Court's decision in that case. He also supports the Prevention First Act which will increase funding for family planning and sex education that teaches abstinence and safe sex to prevent unwanted pregnancies, and STDs. The act also ends insurance discrimination against contraception.
 
Joey, you dirty dog. You know how much work I put in to that post, and you deleted it without cause. I was making a case against Obama, which is not off topic. Considering the constant stream of off topic posts by jerkoffs in this forum, I find it curious that you decided JUST NOW to start "cleaning up" this thread.

At the very least you could have given me the option of moving my post to another thread or starting a new one.

That's just plain nasty.

Message received: Don't post any more negative stuff about Obama. Got it.

Oh, and by the way, Joey, your stupid graph is biased and false. People with families making under $40K don't pay federal income taxes. Also, your graph ignores Obama's proposed INCREASE in the capital gains tax, which will affect SENIORS living off their 401Ks, as well as tens of millions of Americans who are investing for retirement. Not to mention Obama's intention to raise corporate taxes, which will kill lower wage jobs and raise prices, an effective tax increase to consumers.

Plus, I love how Obama's arrows are a cool blue, and McCain's are an angry red. You are such a sheeple.
 
John McCain and Barack Obama somehow ended up at the same barber shop.

As they sat there, each being worked on by a different barber, not a word was spoken.

The barbers were both afraid to start a conversation, for fear it would turn to politics. As the barbers finished their shaves, the
one who had McCain in his chair reached for the after shave.

McCain was quick to stop him saying, ' No thanks, my wife Cindy will smell that and think I've been in a whorehouse'.

The second barber turned to Barack and said 'how about you?' Obama replied 'Go ahead, my wife Michelle doesn't know what the inside of a whorehouse smells like'.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Bird Food...

So, is this a dead end at this point? I certainly feel like this could just turn out to be me being staked out on the desert floor, waiting for the vultures to feed.
 
I was making a case against Obama, which is not off topic.

Message received: Don't post any more negative stuff about Obama. Got it.

Post all you want, but im was only trying to keep this thread at least close to on topic. This thread ISNT ABOUT making a case AGAINST Obama.

I so rarely delete posts, you ought to know better fossten.
 
Plus, I love how Obama's arrows are a cool blue, and McCain's are an angry red. You are such a sheeple.



Wow - Red is republican and blue is democrat.. Amazing you think THAT is media bias as well. ROFL!!!!! ODS apparantly.
 
Bottom 3 group (60% of taxpayers), after deductions don't pay any taxes.

So what you are espousing is redistribution of wealth.

Welcome to your socialist utopia.
 
So, is this a dead end at this point? I certainly feel like this could just turn out to be me being staked out on the desert floor, waiting for the vultures to feed.

LOL be patient foxpaws the thread is only one day old.
I would help you out but I can't I am not a supporter good luck :)
 
At this point, I am now leaning toward Obama. Let me explain why...

First, is change.
Just his presence as President will imply change to the country and the rest of the world. What I hope for is that that "change" will be a morale booster and inspiration.

Second, taxes.
John McCain will lower everyone’s taxes, but unless you make more than $226,000 per year, your taxes get lowered a lot less than the wealthy. Under Senator Obama’s plan, mortal people like you an I (that make between $37,000 and $111,000 per year) will see more of a tax break with Obama than with McCain. Why is this important to me? Well, i believe that right now, lower income people need a bigger shot in the arm then the wealthy.

mccainobamataxplan.jpg


The VP factor.
I have a real fear that there is a possibility that neither of these candidates will live through their term. So I have to look and candidates, and frankly, I wouldnt elect Palin to be Dog Catcher.

He's not Bush
I believe GW was wrong on most of his policies, and I dont see McCain being all that different. I believe Obama will be considerably different. And I believe we need things to be different.

He's from Chicago
That, to me, means he is likely to help Illinois and Chicago more then McCain will (like all Presidents tend to do with their home state) I also think Obama being President will considerably help Chicago get the Olymipcs.

(Sorry, I had to mention McCain and Bush because it was part of my decision process)

Tell me something Joey, knowing that it was socialist ideologies that got us in to this affordable housing mess and subsequent economy crash, how do you feel about healthcare? Obama believes that healthcare is a right. Do you believe that?
 
Just his presence as President will imply change to the country and the rest of the world. What I hope for is that that "change" will be a morale booster and inspiration.

So you by into the cult of personality. Style over substance, eh? Can't take out the symbolism it seems...

I also have to wonder why you assume that the "change" Obama brings would be positive.

John McCain will lower everyone’s taxes, but unless you make more than $226,000 per year, your taxes get lowered a lot less than the wealthy. Under Senator Obama’s plan, mortal people like you an I (that make between $37,000 and $111,000 per year) will see more of a tax break with Obama than with McCain. Why is this important to me? Well, i believe that right now, lower income people need a bigger shot in the arm then the wealthy.

We have been through this before. The rich fund the economy. Giving them a tax cut would be a shot in the arm to the economy.

Also, as Fossten pointed out, the tax "cuts" Obama would give amount to welfare when you actually do the math.

I guess you think a change to socialism is somehow positive. :rolleyes:

I have a real fear that there is a possibility that neither of these candidates will live through their term. So I have to look and candidates, and frankly, I wouldnt elect Palin to be Dog Catcher.

Not suprisingly you buy into the spin of the mainstream media. Nevermind that they have next to no credibility when it comes to Obama or Palin. They have thrown out intellectual and journalistic integrety, journalistic ethics and and examination of all the facts in their zeal to smear Palin and get Obama elected.

But considering you buy into the MSM spin of Bush, it is not too suprising you would buy into it on Obama and Palin.:rolleyes:

I believe GW was wrong on most of his policies, and I dont see McCain being all that different. I believe Obama will be considerably different. And I believe we need things to be different.

"Different" does not mean "right". Obama's policies may be different, but that could be just as wrong if not more so.

But your BDS won't allow you to consider that possibility, eh? :rolleyes:

That, to me, means he is likely to help Illinois and Chicago more then McCain will (like all Presidents tend to do with their home state) I also think Obama being President will considerably help Chicago get the Olymipcs.

So...you vote on what a candidate for president can do for you? Ever consider the fact that if they do a lot for you they can and will take a lot from you and others to do it? But that doesn't matter because those people deserve to have something taken from them, right? You seem to be voting more on selfishness and a sense of pusnishing those who are successful; in other words, you are voting on emotion.

Can you justify your vote without appeals to symbolism and emotion, as Calabrio originally asked?
 
My case for voting for Obama in '08:

1) Obama’s tax proposals results in a greater tax cut for the middle class than "that old one" and reduces the class warfare on the less wealthy that is perpetuated by the current regressive tax structure. Despite what his opponent would like Americans to believe, Obama's plan results in LOWER TAXES for middle class Americans:

(link: http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/411750_updated_candidates_summary.pdf ),

If your income is less than $112,000 / year, your taxes will be LOWER with Obama’s tax plan than with the plan from "that old one":

(link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/06/09/ST2008060900950.html ).

Obama’s tax proposal is FAIR, unlike “that old one’s” proposal that gives 10-times greater tax cut to the top 0.1% of wage earners (> $2.87 million) than those of the lowest 60% (< $66,364). HOW IS GIVING THE RICHEST 10-TIMES MORE TAX RELIEF THAN THE POOREST FAIR?? Yeah, conservatives argue that the “rich invest and create jobs” and “trickle-down economics” blah blah blah……… Well THAT’s worked really well the last 8 years, HASN’T IT?? All THAT has resulted in is expanded GREED at the top and lost jobs at the bottom. Now the same party that allowed that to happen on their watch has SOCIALIZED THE DEBT FROM BAD DECISIONS OF THE WEALTHY AND PUT THAT BURDEN ON THE TAX PAYER. And the Republicans & conservatives have the gall to call Democrats and liberals “socialists”??!!?!? Baloney. ONLY THE TOP 1.1% WEALTHIEST AMERICANS WILL SEE A TAX INCREASE UNDER OBAMA, AND THEY ARE BEST SUITED TO AFFORD IT! THEY CERTAINLY DO NOT DESERVE A 10-X BIGGER BREAK THAN THE MIDDLE CLASS LIKE THEY’D GET WITH “THAT OLD ONE”!

2) Obama’s position that the "real war on terror" lies with Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan & Pakistan and NOT in Iraq is dead-on. He wants to focus bringing Bin-Laden and Al-Qaeda down (you know, the terrorists that actually attacked us on 9/11/01??) and stop losing blood and resources in Iraq when the Iraqis are fully capable of sustaining peace themselves. Obama was RIGHT in opposing the Iraq war at the beginning, he had the intelligence to see through the vapor-thin argument and false “intelligence” given by the president and his surrogates falsely tying Saddam Hussein to 9/11 and claims of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Obama had the bravery to stand up against the mainstream and vote NO on the authorization to invade Iraq. Additionally, while his opponent claims Obama has made absolutely no accomplishments while in the Senate, the fact is that Obama, among other things, has reached across the aisle and worked with Senator Dick Lugar (R-IN) to create and pass a bill that will fight nuclear proliferation, a key element to the “war on terror”.

3) Obama has consistently supported Jim Webb’s GI bill, which was initially fought by “that old one” and BuSh. But then when it was finally passed, “that old one” tried to take credit for it. DISPICABLE! Veterans grade “that old one” a D and Obama a B. That speaks volumes about who REALLY supports the troops and vets!

(link: http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-108674 )

4) Obama’s selection for a VP running mate was based on what is right for the country, and not beneficial for his chances to win an election. His choice is fully capable of taking the reigns of the Oval Office if the need were ever to arise. Joe Biden brings a wealth of experience and foreign policy expertise to the ticket, unlike the empty suit from Alaska who thinks the ability to “see Russia” qualifies her for the Oval Office that was chosen by “that old one” solely for the purpose of firming up support of the party’s base in a desperate attempt to win an election and NOTHING ELSE. “Country First” my Fanny Mae.

5) Throughout the campaign, Obama has avoided the mudslinging that typically engulfs recent campaigns, and has now been embraced by his opponent. Even in the face of slanderous accusations of “palling around with domestic terrorists” (which had been completely debunked months ago), Obama has behaved presidential and refused to stoop to the depths at which the GOP ticket has chosen to lie. I find it disgraceful that the GOP campaign, who at one time denounced and promised to not engage in those tactics, now enthusiastically employs them. In fact, the GOP ticket is now practically inciting hate and violence towards Obama, as shouts of “Terrorist!” and “Kill Him” have been heard at recent campaign rallies when those accusations are spewed forth. Instead of acting presidential himself and confronting those issues with Obama face-to-face, man-to-man, “that old one” spinelessly sidesteps those accusations and issues in a debate, yet is quick to call Obama names behind his back at campaign events. All this could possibly mean is that the GOP ticket cannot afford to talk about real issues that concern real Americans and instead chose to attack Obama in a pathetic attempt to tar-and-feather him as untrustworthy. Old age must be taking it’s toll, as “that old one” has apparently forgotten that you cannot convict on “guilt by association”, and people who live in glass houses should not throw stones. If the GOP ticket wants to “go there”, then the Obama campaign now has the full right to bring up some of the GOP ticket’s shady associations of the past, including:

(link: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/5/121739/769/653/620752 )

1) The Keating 5
2) G. Gordon Liddy
3) Rev. John Hagee
4) Rick Davis
5) Phil Gramm
6) Oliver North
7) Rev. Rod Parsley
8) Alaskan Independent Party
9) Troopergate

This list goes on and on. Look, not one politician is squeaky clean when it comes to past business and political associations, and the GOP ticket is by far no exception. My point is, while the far-left (yes, I did link to DailyKos since Google returned this link at the top of my search) may try to draw attention to these issues, until Obama was attacked by the GOP ticket, his campaign has not once tried to draw national attention to these shady associations. Throughout the primary campaign, Obama has consistently behaved “Presidential”, while his opponents on the GOP ticket have acted like immature crybabies trying to draw voter’s attention away from REAL ISSUES.

Obama/Biden '08!
 

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