Front end issues? Help wanted!!!

Boomhower

Boomhower

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Alright guys and gals,
This past Sat. I was driving the car around town to pick up some parts for the maintenance job I was doing on my truck. On my way back home on a narrow two lane road, some lovely (experienced I'm sure) driver slammed on his brakes in front of me to make a left hand turn with a line of traffic coming in the opposite direction. I was all over him trying to get stopped. I was on a slight down hill grade in a right hand bend of the road with the load resting on the front end as well as the brakes. Once this accomplished driver proceeded on his way, I released the brakes and as the car lifted back into it's normal resting position, I heard a rubbing noise. Didn't think much of it then. Got in it the next day and it now has a scrubbing noise while backing up, and seems to intensify when turning the wheels while backing up. I've searched wheel bearings and sway bar issues, but they all claim to have a clunk or high pitch squeal. I have neither. Just a scrubbing noise. Like a tire rubbing plastic.......I also searched for shock issues, but all that I read about there, talked about the front end bouncing or floating, and I have neither.....Then today I was talking to my wife about it and she said that the Friday before all of this, she was driving the car somewhere. She pulled up to the main Hwy. with the wheels pointing left as she stopped. When she took off, she heard a pop from under the car, but thought she had ran over something in the road so she didn't think anything of it. I have not experienced a pop and have driven it for 3 days now without hearing a pop. Just a scrubbing noise when backing out of parking spaces and such.

About the car: 02 V8 LSE....3X,XXX miles......factory tires, stock rims and suspension....I have looked under the car to see if there was any plastic hanging down that might drag on the wheel, but saw nothing. I looked on the inner fender wells for rub marks from the tire, but saw nothing. Tires seem to be wearing a little faster on the outside than on the inside, but just barely and not enough that I would suspect a front end alignment is needed.

I have not had the car on a jack yet, as I would like to have a good start on what to look for before I start yanking on wheels and prying on bars. The car is still under warranty, but I'm not sure if this will be excluded as a general wear and tear issue. Can anyone help me diagnose this please. We have a meet planned for the beginning of Feb. and I'd like to have this issue behind me before then.....Thanks a bunch guys.
 
I had a brake friction pad come loose from the backing plate one time. It made a similar noice to what you are describing. It gets leveled pretty quick going forward, then makes a scrubbing sound when going backwards.

I think it's work a look.
 
So your talking about the actual material coming loose from the backing of a brake pad. Makes sense. I'll have to check tomorrow evening....thxs

Any other suggestions?
 
It sounds like the sway bar bushing is bad. Mine did something similar to yours and had the dealer check it out a couple of weeks ago when it was in the shop getting a new fuel pump. They stated that the bushings will cause noise under the car if they are bad. That is maybe one theory.
 
GrayGhost1 said:
It sounds like the sway bar bushing is bad.
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Whick now comes as a complete sway bar assembly, right?....and there's really no way to check the bushing or bearings, right??
 
On my previous cars my bushings had a squeaking sound. but never the less I would take it to the stealership and see what they say...
 
mharrison said:
I had a brake friction pad come loose from the backing plate one time. It made a similar noice to what you are describing. It gets leveled pretty quick going forward, then makes a scrubbing sound when going backwards.

I think it's work a look.
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Well, I finially got a chance this weekend to look at brakes.....Well not really. I went to take the tire off, but it appears that Craftsman decided that anyone buying the paticular set of tools that I have, wouldn't need a 20mm socket. Which is the size I need to take the lug nuts off, according to another thread I read on here. Plus the lugs are a little rounded from previous tire rotations I guess, so I'm probably gonna get some sebring lugs and just change them out. As I've read, it seems the factory ones aren't much pumpkin.
 
Boomhower said:
Well, I finially got a chance this weekend to look at brakes.....Well not really. I went to take the tire off, but it appears that Craftsman decided that anyone buying the paticular set of tools that I have, wouldn't need a 20mm socket. Which is the size I need to take the lug nuts off, according to another thread I read on here. Plus the lugs are a little rounded from previous tire rotations I guess, so I'm probably gonna get some sebring lugs and just change them out. As I've read, it seems the factory ones aren't much pumpkin.
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my factory lugs were ruined...ended up getting new ones from the stealership, come to find out i could have gone to autozone or advanced auto both stores were 2 dollars cheaper per lug. adds up when you are buying all 20
 
Well I won't be driving the LS for a little while. I'm now hearing metal on metal action from the front brakes. I don't want to ruin my rotors, so I'm going to park her for now.((mharrison) I'm hoping this was the front end noise I was hearing. What I heard before was not brake and rotor friction, but I guess it could have been the start. Still has me wondering about you comment though) And since I don't have a 20mm socket, I don't really know when I'll get a chance to look at them, plus at least 1 or 2 of the lugs on each wheel look like they've had the wrong socket hammered on them, so I'm going to replace them soon as well.

Ken...Let's talk about the EBC Green and Red pads you have on you website. Do you have any praise or negative story's about them? Or is anyone else using them now? Can you give me your feedback? Would anyone say they are worth spending the money vs. going back with OEM or aftermarket brake pads?

I just put a set of Wagner Semi Metallic thermoquite pads on my truck. Only 2 weeks old and they squeal. The guy at Oreilly's told me they were ceramic, but I found out tonight that they aren't. Do ceramic pads squeal? The EBC Red pads are ceramic aren't they? The last thing I want to hear on the LS is my brakes everytime I engage them.
 
Boomhower said:
Ken...Let's talk about the EBC Green and Red pads you have on you website. Do you have any praise or negative story's about them? Or is anyone else using them now? Can you give me your feedback? Would anyone say they are worth spending the money vs. going back with OEM or aftermarket brake pads?

I just put a set of Wagner Semi Metallic thermoquite pads on my truck. Only 2 weeks old and they squeal. The guy at Oreilly's told me they were ceramic, but I found out tonight that they aren't. Do ceramic pads squeal? The EBC Red pads are ceramic aren't they? The last thing I want to hear on the LS is my brakes everytime I engage them.
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If I didn't have the StopTech Big Brake kit on my LS I would get the EBC dimpled rotors with the Redstuff pads. I had the Porterfield pads before the StopTech system and they were good also. However, after some very good feedback on the EBC items that would be my first choice.

As for squeal, I used Permatex's Disc Brake Quiet on the Porterfields when I had them and never had any issues with squealing.
 
GrayGhost1 said:
As for squeal, I used Permatex's Disc Brake Quiet on the Porterfields when I had them and never had any issues with squealing.
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That was my experience as well. I don't remember exactly, but I think I had 10K-15K miles on the Porterfields when I traded the '04 for the '06, and I had nary a squeal out of them.
 
Boomhower said:
I went to take the tire off, but it appears that Craftsman decided that anyone buying the paticular set of tools that I have, wouldn't need a 20mm socket.
Click to expand...

Is there not a tire iron in with your spare that will take the nuts off?

WRT the front end noise, I would look also at the tie rod ends.

Chuck
 
included iron on my 03 was crap and stripped 2 nuts and failed to get the wheel off when I had a flat once....
 
My factory tire iron is also absolute crap. (Well I honestly think it's a combination of it being a hair loose and the lugs also being crappy.)

I have no doubt that I would not be able to change a tire with it, if it was all I had.
 
GrayGhost1 said:
If I didn't have the StopTech Big Brake kit on my LS I would get the EBC dimpled rotors with the Redstuff pads. I had the Porterfield pads before the StopTech system and they were good also. However, after some very good feedback on the EBC items that would be my first choice.
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Ok.....My next question.....I'm not really looking for a performace stopping upgraded brake pad. The factory brakes fit my needs just fine. What excatly do these Red EBC's offer that the factory pads do not? Cold stopping power? High acceleration stopping power? I read the chart on your website, but didn't fully understand it.



GrayGhost1 said:
As for squeal, I used Permatex's Disc Brake Quiet on the Porterfields when I had them and never had any issues with squealing.
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SoonerLS said:
That was my experience as well. I don't remember exactly, but I think I had 10K-15K miles on the Porterfields when I traded the '04 for the '06, and I had nary a squeal out of them.
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I've never heard of this. How does it work? Is it a spray, or like something you'd smear on your pads, not like a lubercuate of course? And will it work for any brake pad?



Chuck27 said:
Is there not a tire iron in with your spare that will take the nuts off?
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There is, but with some of my lug nuts in the shape that there in, I don't want to take a chance at stripping one off until I have a new set waiting close by to put back on.



beaups said:
included iron on my 03 was crap and stripped 2 nuts and failed to get the wheel off when I had a flat once....
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mharrison said:
My factory tire iron is also absolute crap. (Well I honestly think it's a combination of it being a hair loose and the lugs also being crappy.)

I have no doubt that I would not be able to change a tire with it, if it was all I had.
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I've never had to change a flat, knock on wood, so I don't know if the tire iron is good or bad.

Since I don't have a 20mm socket, and I'm planning on getting new lug nuts anyway.....I have thought about getting a set of the sebring lug nuts, and going to the junk yard to pick up a tire iron that would fit. According to other post on here, the sebring lugs are a 13/16", which my socket set does have. Then I wouldn't have to buy an additional socket. Which I have no open slot for in my socket set, but I would be buying a tire iron, so the cost is going to be about the same, but I wouldn't have to worry about keeping up with one socket.
 
Disc Brake Quiet is a high-temp grease (blue, IIRC) that's supposed to go between the brake pad backing plate (the metal part) and that thin metal shim that goes between the plate and the caliper (if you have one). I fyou don't have the shim, it goes on the contact areas between the plate and the caliper.

You can find it at the parts store with the RTV sealant, Loc-Tite, and so forth.
 
BTW, at least on the '04 and '06 LSes I've owned, the lug nuts are 19mm, not 20mm. That goes for both the plain steel lugs that came one my '06 and the exposed chromed lugs that were on my '04 (and the ones that are now on my '06).
 
SoonerLS said:
BTW, at least on the '04 and '06 LSes I've owned, the lug nuts are 19mm, not 20mm. That goes for both the plain steel lugs that came one my '06 and the exposed chromed lugs that were on my '04 (and the ones that are now on my '06).
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I went out and checked them again. using a 6 point socket, 19mm is to small and 21mm is to big. I'm assuming it's a 20 for 2 reasons.

1.) It's the one I can't try and (not being a smart @ss) obviously 20 is in between 19 and 21.

2.)
Quik LS said:
The lug wrench should be 20 mm - 6 pt. Do NOT use any 12 point sockets as you will not can a good grip.

BTW: the Sebring lugs are a direct replacement (OEM Part Number MB579290) build dates after 4/97 - however your stock lug wrench will not work on these lugs. I believe you'll need a 13/16" for these new lugs.

The newer Lincoln lugs are 3W4Z-1012-AA List $4.83
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http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?p=36625&mode=linear#post36625


I can get the 19mm to go on the lug nuts that are already banged up, but not any of the others. It won't seat all the way on the lug, and I'm not about to start turning it by hand or with an impact with only 1/8" to 1/4" grip on the lug.
 
Boomhower said:
I went out and checked them again. using a 6 point socket, 19mm is to small and 21mm is to big. I'm assuming it's a 20 for 2 reasons.
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Maybe that's why owners of later model LSes don't have the lug nut problems endemic to the earlier models. Admittedly, both of the sets of exposed chrome lug nuts I've had are from '04 LSes (the current set came with the wheels I bought from GWL), but they were both 19mm.
 
Boomhower said:
Here's a pretty good reivew on the EBC Red stuff brake pads if anyone else would be interested. This review came straight from EBCbrakes.com, and with this review and her occupation, I'd say these would be pretty good pads.

http://www.subiegal.com/productreview/ebcredstuff/ebcbrakes_redstuff_review.htm
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Good for racing isn't necessarily good for street use. These need heat build-up to be truly effective. The Porterfields were great once hot. The first 20-30 feet felt sluggish then hauled you down quite quickly. I had the Greenstuffs once. They squealed and dusted more than the Raybestos.
 
LS4me said:
Good for racing isn't necessarily good for street use. These need heat build-up to be truly effective.
Click to expand...

I understand that, but the red stuff are advertised to have 50% less dust and I've read somewhere that they do not require any warm up time. Just can't find where it says that again.
 
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