emissions repairs

[steagle]

hey all, i'm in LA, and need to get one of my catalytic converters replaced (failed pretty freakin early, at 60k miles) in order to pass smog check which is required by february 08. mechanic quoted me over $600 for part & labor. quick search online showed me some cats for $55. now here's the question, i've never had to do emissions repairs on a vehicle i've owned, let alone in california, so can i buy my own cat, and have the guy weld it on? do i need an official Ford OEM part or can i buy whatever i want?

 

[steagle]

bounce

 

[NateRW21]

Okay... check it out...

Your cats have to be replaced with the same TYPE of cats you have now. Did they start messing up before you hit 60k or after? If before, they SHOULD be covered by the dealer (60k, 8yr warrenty on ODBII vehicles).

Anyway, if you were to replace them yourself, you'd have to get the correct type (pretty sure you'd need three way). If you do this, look into high flow. But all-in-all, you might not be looking at that bad of a deal for $600; there ARE FOUR cats!!

 

[steagle]

i thought there were two.

and the cat was definitely failing before 60. it was failing in the high 50s. i got the smell, and i barely passed smog check when i registered the car in February 06. seriously, i was one point below failing. here's the fun part (and i posted this on LvC quite some time ago) when i took it to the dealer they refused to replace the cat under warranty because "it hadn't failed yet." they were only authorized to replace something that had failed the smog check. i passed by one point. i showed them the paperwork from the smog check to prove this. meanwhile i only had a few weeks left on the federal emissions warranty (and it's 7 years by the way not 8). by the time it had actually failed of course i was out of warranty and now they are more than happy to do the replacement.

the whole system out here makes me sick sometimes. yes its good to have high emissions standards, absolutely. but if you are going to make this a financial burden on the consumer then there needs to be a more flexible system in place for these people. even with our standards in CA we still have the most illegal drivers on the road, the most traffic, i mean its not doing much to help except give some mechanics a bit more cash when its time for smog check.

 

[NateRW21]

i thought there were two.

and the cat was definitely failing before 60. it was failing in the high 50s. i got the smell, and i barely passed smog check when i registered the car in February 06. seriously, i was one point below failing. here's the fun part (and i posted this on LvC quite some time ago) when i took it to the dealer they refused to replace the cat under warranty because "it hadn't failed yet." they were only authorized to replace something that had failed the smog check. i passed by one point. i showed them the paperwork from the smog check to prove this. meanwhile i only had a few weeks left on the federal emissions warranty (and it's 7 years by the way not 8). by the time it had actually failed of course i was out of warranty and now they are more than happy to do the replacement.

the whole system out here makes me sick sometimes. yes its good to have high emissions standards, absolutely. but if you are going to make this a financial burden on the consumer then there needs to be a more flexible system in place for these people. even with our standards in CA we still have the most illegal drivers on the road, the most traffic, i mean its not doing much to help except give some mechanics a bit more cash when its time for smog check.

My mistake on the 7 years. Unfortunately, you might be up sh!tcreek without a paddle.

I'm about 90% sure there are four cats, two per side... but I could be wrong; I've been known to be wrong before. I'll pull my manuals and have a look to verify (cause... it's too damn cold to get under the vehicle!).

IF it's only two cats; you may want to consider replacement on your own. Magnaflow has a subordinate brand of high-flow cats that are of pretty good value. I think you'll pay around $100 ea. I would advise against the cheap aftermarket brands. Reason for this being, run of the mill aftermarket are only required to have a warranty for 25k miles; the quality of the part really is sub-par. This is actually a repair where it pays to go more expensive.

Now, with all of this, something to keep in mind is that the cause for your premature cat failure could be an issue with the car; failing EGR, incorrect octane rating, plugs in the wrong heat range, injector issues. Any number of issues will cause the failure of your cats; if they are ran for too long in the incorrect heat range, they can melt, or clog. So unfortunately, the problem may be more extensive than just your cats.

PS... the rotten eggs smell... that is caused by your cats not being heated up enough; could be just due to the catalyst on it's way out, or it could be the rest of your emissions/ignition/fuel system.

Sorry about your luck man!!! And I totally agree with the idea that there should be better support to the consumer in regards to emissions systems

 

[steagle]

let me know what you find out, i'll take a look at my manual too when i get the chance. i could have sworn it is only 2 because the error message i pulled from the PCM specifically mentioned the driver-side catalytic converter.

i am enjoying the better gas mileage i'm getting with the failed cat, though i would average 19-20 highway now i'm around 23.

 

[NateRW21]

You are correct my friend:

"contains dual three-way catalytic converters"

So there you go; might be better for you to replace yourself.

 

[NateRW21]

I couldn't verify if your downstream sensors are after the cats, or in cat sensors. So, before you order new cats, verify that on your vehicle.

 

[NateRW21]

Just found them (downstream O2 sensors) in a different area of my manual... it would appear they are in the cats.

Also, judging by this illustration, replacing the cats might not be that fun to do on your own. It appears they are only a matter of inches from the flange attaching the pipes to the headers. And what's worse, your upstream O2 sensors are actually placed at the start of the cats; meaning, the flared opening. So replace these with aftermarket, you're looking at... having some pipe welded to the existing flanges, having a bung for the O2 sensors welded into that pipe, then having the new cats welded on after the upstream sensors, finally welding the rest of your exhaust back to the new cats. And all of this requiring the components to be located in the same spot (as in, if the upstream sensor is 2" from the collector, that's where it has to be kept, same with the cats; as far as legalities go, but I doubt your inspector will have the factory measurements to compare to).

Something to keep in mind if you do this, it's also important your cats are located almost exactly where they currently are so they continue to run in the same heat range. A difference of 8-10 inches could have your cats running cold enough that you constantly get the rotten egg smell, and they clog in 10-20k mi.

So, with all of that... I'd be interested to see an experiment: Factory tubing is 2"... you are at a point where your cats must be replaced. I'd like to see you dyno the car as is, throw on a full 2 1/4" system, from collector back, redyno the car... and compare the results! Of course, you certainly risk a loss of torque... but if you're one to spend the money and experiment, it would surely answer a lot of questions people have! (but to be honest, were it me; I'd just have some high flow stainless 2" cats thrown on!)

 

[SoonerLS]

I don't know for sure when it was enacted, but, according to my Lincoln warranty guide, there is a Federal 8-year/80,000 mile warranty on certain emissions-related equipment, including the catalytic converters. You might want to recheck that.

 

[steagle]

i don't know why there is so much conflicting information on this warranty. one thing i know is that it's a federal warranty not a manufacturer warranty. every car in california (at least) is entitled to this warranty to make it easier to keep up with our uber strict emission laws. there is also another federal program in place in california that allows you to apply for up to $600 in emissions-related repairs if you car fails smog check and you're in low income. i'm not in the bracket so i can't qualify, and from everything i've researched into the emissions warranty, it's 7 years/70,000 miles. please, if anyone here can provide documentation that says otherwise, that would be a big help.

although my car is a 2000 model year, it was technically manufactured in 1999, and it will be 2008 soon. so who knows which way that could go even if the warranty period IS 8 years.