Charging System FAIL

RCodePaul

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I'd like to share my experience and ask your best guess. Yes, I've searched and found a few leads.
Started my '03 V8 and it cranked fast and started normally. While warming up I notice it has a new front end whine, like a power steering whine (but the fluid is full.) Made a mental note to check into it and drove off. Right away I noticed the display said "check traction control' and the abs light was on. Wonder if it’s connected to the whine. Get to a stop light and while idling the "Check Charging System" message showed up. As soon as I get on the gas and the RPMs climb even slightly the message goes away.
Dash starts more blinking antics and the whine increases. I notice the electrics are weak, rolling a window, it’s going in slo mo. So I return home and park it, use another car for the trip. On return home try the LS and battery isn’t just slightly dead, it’s completely and totally discharged. Battery won’t operate anything on the car. Try to jump the car no, no go. Will crank slowly but that is it.
Remove battery and place on trickle charger; put known good battery in car. Exact same thing as above. Weird things are the super-fast discharge and the totally dead battery, like a nasty short. Figure I’ll remove them and take the battery and alternator (generator) to AutoZone for testing, assuming it’s the alternator. (Yes, joegr I should have used the DMM to test voltage and amperage but did not.)
Found and liked this post:
I Had the alternator and battery checked today at Autozone. When their tester put a load on the alternator it stalled the motor on their machine. It appears the alternator is charging, but the regulator is bad. The Battery is fine, I had it tested too.
Got the LS up in the air, pulled the lower valance and air deflector, removed the serp belt tension using a crescent wrench and got the belt off the alt using a looooong screwdriver while holding the tensioner (fun job solo.)
The generator is a really tight fit. I got the lower mounting through bolt off (massive torque required to break it loose. It was ridiculously tight.) The upper smaller bolt is very hard to get to and it’s partially blocked by a wiring harness running right across it. With the help of a mirror, I finally get a 6pt 13mm socket on it and it’s all I can do to keep pressure to keep the socket on the nut (it’s not a bolt as shown in the Ford Manual.) Trying to keep the socket on the bolt against the pressure of the wiring harness and pushing on the ratchet lever is a bugger. Multiple attempts lead me to believe I’ve got a much better chance at effing up the nut than removing it.
With the lingering doubts about the dead short I decided to bail (fail) and take it to a mech. Doing that today. Any bets on the issue? Dead short/chewed wiring? Alt/generator failure? (Can one short out as it fails? With the whine and discharge, it’s probably it.) Original battery? (It’s 8 years old but was rock solid until now. Plus condition was same with a second battery, so I’m guessing no. This episode prob killed it for good though, my luck.)
 
most deffinatly the alternater, It's not that hard to pull and replace. It may have a bad regulator. And for the whine, If it is the alternator the bearings may be shot. It took me about 45 minutes to pull the old alternater and put new one in. I had the same problem a while back, Also buy the Ford alternator. When it comes to electrical systems the best is OEM
 
Diodes in the alternator can fail in a short circuit mode and cause a heavy battery drain and poor charging, but at least two of the six have to fail to cause the discharge.
Another possibility is that you have a major short somewhere else and the alternator just can't keep up with it. In that case, the alternator, like the battery, is probably toast now anyway.
Let's hope your mechanic makes the right current measurements to find the correct fault(s).
 
With my luck

Another possibility is that you have a major short somewhere else and the alternator just can't keep up with it. In that case, the alternator, like the battery, is probably toast now anyway.

I'll take "Worst possible outcome" for $500 Alex...

As my Dad used to say, "If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all."

Fingers crossed (in an Eeyore sort of way.)
 
So I called the mechanic for an appt...

Diodes in the alternator can fail in a short circuit mode and cause a heavy battery drain and poor charging, but at least two of the six have to fail to cause the discharge.
Another possibility is that you have a major short somewhere else and the alternator just can't keep up with it. In that case, the alternator, like the battery, is probably toast now anyway.
Let's hope your mechanic makes the right current measurements to find the correct fault(s).

...and the mechanic says, "put a battery and an alternator in it and call me back. There's no way a good battery can be drained fully that quickly so I know the battery is bad and it is almost certainly the alternator. Once the diode fails, the current goes both ways."
I was stunned, said, "Ah, uh, well. OK, but I was calling to bring it in..." He said, "You don't need to." Aight. Must not be an LS fan.

Hmmmm. So I yanked the alternator (generator) tonight with only a few cusswords (had to jack the engine up to get the through bolt over the top of the sway bar - also needed a very big pry bar to get alt free of the mount) and took it and the battery to AutoZone and dude tested both and declared both bad. The battery is old (original to the '03) but had been cranking the starter just fine. On the alternator, the alt tester wouldn't even spin it. Dude said he'd never seen a no spin fail, so he rechecked the setup and jumper and connections and it did the same thing.

AutoZone can't get one til Wed. What do you think? RockAuto shows a "new" Motorcraft alt for $218. Any recommendations, comments, questions, admonitions?
 
well. my mark viii would eat autozone alternators for breakfast and lunch.

are the LS alternators rebuildable like other ford alts? i've rebuilt a few mark alts and several f150 alts. its much cheaper and i've had good luck.
 
Get a new Motorcraft alternator, or you'll be swapping out the aftermarket part once a year. Even with a "lifetime" warranty, it'll he a huge hassle in the end, not worth the savings.
 
Same Deal

I just went thru a similar situation. :(
Was coming home and radio turned itself off then nothing electrical would work but the A/C was still running. As soon as I turned off the highway and slowed when I tried to accelerate I guess the car went into protect mode and was jerking and would not pick up speed. I only had a few hundred yards to get into the driveway.

Once I stopped and shut it off that was it. 10 year old battery was dead so no complaints there and got a new battery and seemed to work fine...... for a day. Then same thing. Tested alternater and it was pooched. I was given the same advice on getting the motorcraft from the dealer so I did. Up and running and working as it should. Now waiting on delivery of new crank pulley as I noticed it had moved forward and the belt was riding half off the back of the pulley. Getting the dealer to install that as they only charge 130 bucks or 1.5 hours to do it so the headache for that one is worth the 130 to pay to avoid it.

A friend of mine has a ford and when his alternator went he put in one a year for two years then got the motorcraft one and 5 years later its still working. That was enough info for me to spend the extra 80 bucks for the motorcraft dealer alternater.

Cheers
 
...AutoZone can't get one til Wed. What do you think? RockAuto shows a "new" Motorcraft alt for $218. Any recommendations, comments, questions, admonitions?

Forget AutoZone. Get the Motorcraft, unless you really enjoy taking alternators out and putting them back in.
 
Forget AutoZone. Get the Motorcraft, unless you really enjoy taking alternators out and putting them back in.

its easy removing them on my mark and cougar and i still hate dealing with autozone alts. another point for motorcraft alternators.
 
Yup yup

Forget AutoZone. Get the Motorcraft, unless you really enjoy taking alternators out and putting them back in.

Thanks for the quality responses, I appreciate the feedback. I am the king of second-guessing and my normal "go to guy" was my Dad who has passed on (on 9/11 no less. Another reason to rue the day.)
RockAuto was only a bit less than the stealership and I can have it today at the LM stealer.
RA - $300
LM-$350
Being a one car family is a bit of a pain.
Thanks again.
 
Fun with alternators

When my alternator 'died' I was at the front of the staging lanes at Maxton. Had to get a tow back a mile to the pits, and the only possible source for an alternator late on a Saturday afternoon was the AZ in Laurenburg. We installed it in the pits, using a flashlight to be able to (sorta) see. Set four records in two classes the next day.

That AZ alternator worked for about four months and failed. The next one lasted almost a year. The last one has been in the car for about two years, and I installed a voltmeter to be able to monitor it at the same time. It's still putting out 14.5 at this point. I'll probably put a 200 amp version in when I replace the engine!

KS
 
Success

...and the mechanic says, "put a battery and an alternator in it and call me back. There's no way a good battery can be drained fully that quickly so I know the battery is bad and it is almost certainly the alternator. Once the diode fails, the current goes both ways."
I was stunned, said, "Ah, uh, well. OK, but I was calling to bring it in..." He said, "You don't need to." Aight.

All good. Guess I don't need to call Ron at R&R after all. Funny but it went in 3x quicker than it came out. Did get the Motorcraft unit from the stealership. New battery and it's nails.
Don't know why I was so frustrated and annoyed on Sunday. Glad you guys said it was doable. Seemed impossible when I had the mirror all up in there. Now that I'm finished, I know just enough to get started.
I don't remember ever being so happy to spend ~$500 on an unexpected issue. Thanks again for the quality help. Much appreciated. Wish I found LVC a few years earlier.
 
I don't think that being a three car family is any better. All three of them have to be kept running all the time.


True. My dad's is a four car household, which I usually end up helping fix and I guess you can include mine then which makes it 6. It seems like there is always something broke, or needs an oil change, or brakes, etc. The good side is you always have at least one car to get to the parts store in.
 

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