Misfire- no codes!

[cpgoodman]

So i have this project going on with a 01 V6 LS. A few months ago i was hit in the front left wheel area (low speed impact, 40-45 mph). Not much damage, fender, bumper cover and upper control arm, but they totaled it out. So i bought it back from insurance and had the work done by a local body shop. They could never get the car started, they thought it was a fuel pump or REM. Nonetheless i just had them do the body work and had it towed back to my shop. Got it running yesterday, problem was a bad fuel filter and blown fuel pump fuse.

NOW here is the problem! When its in park it idles fine, when i throw it in gear it starts running real rough, little power or acceleration. While in gear there is a chimming noise coming from the dash but no dummy lights. It bings 4 times then stops for a few seconds then 4 times again. When i put it in reverse it gets worse. I couldnt find anything in a search about the chimming noise but it obviously means something. Also worth noting, the oil was real low, needed 2.5 qt's. No oil leaks so i feel thats a pretty scary sign. ANY HELP OR GUIDANCE WOULD BE APPRECIATED! THANKS!

 

[G-RELL]

does the light come on durring startup?

 

[cirelle]

Isn't the chiming the alarm to get you to look at the dash (message center) for instructions?

As G-Rell said, do your indicator dash lights come on during startup?

 

[LS4me]

Isn't the chiming the alarm to get you to look at the dash (message center) for instructions?

As G-Rell said, do your indicator dash lights come on during startup?

No message center on the V6.

Did you re-set the impact switch behind the driver's kick panel? The chimes have something to do with a difference between the mileage shown on the cluster and the one stored in memory, IIRC. Or if the battery was disconnected (or dead) for an extended length of time. Was the cluster changed?

 

[cpgoodman]

The car was dead for a few months at the body shop. Just put a new battery in it. When it chimes there are no lights flashing or CEL lights, nothing. Really weird. I pulled the coils and plugs out on the drivers side tonight and found some fluid in between the middle coil and plug and a little around the spark side of the plug. The other two where fine. Im going to check the other side tomorrow when i have time to take apart the intake manifold. After getting it back together tonight it didnt run any better.

 

[Jval1283]

i had a misfire on my car, with no codes, once i changed the coils it went away....

 

[02LincLS]

Holy crap, 45 mph is slow? I'd hate to see what you call fast

 

[cncpro]

Holy crap, 45 mph is slow? I'd hate to see what you call fast

My thoughts, exactly. LOL

 

[joegr]

No message center on the V6.

Did you re-set the impact switch behind the driver's kick panel? The chimes have something to do with a difference between the mileage shown on the cluster and the one stored in memory, IIRC. Or if the battery was disconnected (or dead) for an extended length of time. Was the cluster changed?

The mileage is only stored in the cluster. I love how this rumor of it being stored somewhere else keeps being repeated. (The cluster and the PCM have to be "married." When they are married, they exchange secret keys. No mileage information is exchanged.)

Anyhow, four rapid beeps repeated ten seconds apart for a few times in gear is the seat belt minder. Is it possible that this is what's going on? (The seat belt light should be flashing. Does it come on when it is supposed to at start up?)

The engine problem could be :
1. Marginal Coils.
2. PCV plumbing.
3. Torque converter.

 

[LS4me]

The car was dead for a few months at the body shop. Just put a new battery in it. When it chimes there are no lights flashing or CEL lights, nothing. Really weird.

If the seat belt light isn't flashing I would suspect the battery being disconnected/dead. Happened to a friend of mine but I don't remember the solution. Probably a trip to the dealer.

The mileage is only stored in the cluster. I love how this rumor of it being stored somewhere else keeps being repeated. (The cluster and the PCM have to be "married." When they are married, they exchange secret keys. No mileage information is exchanged.)

Question then. What prevents mileage rollback? If the mileage is only stored in the cluster what prevents me from acquiring a new cluster and lowering my mileage? What happens when I need a new cluster should mine fail or fry? IIRC, the mileage is stored in the pcm and cluster every few miles and must match when compared on start-up.

Not trying to bust your chops, just trying to learn!

 

[02LincLS]

If the seat belt light isn't flashing I would suspect the battery being disconnected/dead. Happened to a friend of mine but I don't remember the solution. Probably a trip to the dealer.



Question then. What prevents mileage rollback? If the mileage is only stored in the cluster what prevents me from acquiring a new cluster and lowering my mileage? What happens when I need a new cluster should mine fail or fry? IIRC, the mileage is stored in the pcm and cluster every few miles and must match when compared on start-up.

Not trying to bust your chops, just trying to learn!

Because of the access code he referred to as "marrying". The cluster and pcm will not communicate with each other unless they know the secret handshake.
Edit: I think PATS is tied into it which prevents the car from starting if this communication is not there.

 

[LS4me]

Because of the access code he referred to as "marrying". The cluster and pcm will not communicate unless they know the secret handshake.

That I know. My question is from where does the new cluster get the correct mileage information? That information has to be available from somewhere other than the failed component, doesn't it?

 

[02LincLS]

That I know. My question is from where does the new cluster get the correct mileage information? That information has to be available from somewhere other than the failed component, doesn't it?

I think they can still get the mileage from the failed unit. At a minimum, I think they can get the code to confirm you did not swap out a low milage cluster. If not, I'm not sure how they would determine the mileage in such a case. I'm sure Joe will chime in. It might be easy if you bring your car in for service and they get it close based on your typical use.

Doesn't seem worth the trouble you could get in to roll back mileage but I guess that doesn't stop everyone.

 

[joegr]

That I know. My question is from where does the new cluster get the correct mileage information? That information has to be available from somewhere other than the failed component, doesn't it?

Not as I know of. There's no legal requirement for redundant storage. If the old cluster can at least communicate, then the mileage can be copied out of it, even if it can't display it.

 

[LS4me]

Not as I know of. There's no legal requirement for redundant storage. If the old cluster can at least communicate, then the mileage can be copied out of it, even if it can't display it.

I know here in the People's Republik the mileage must be certified under severe penalty when selling a non-"classic" (used to be older than 25 years) car. There must be someway the mileage info is stored.....

 

[joegr]

I know here in the People's Republik the mileage must be certified under severe penalty when selling a non-"classic" (used to be older than 25 years) car. There must be someway the mileage info is stored.....

Just in the cluster. It's no different than older cars with only mechanical odometers. The legal liability in on the person who signs the odometer statement at the time of sale or transfer.

 

[LS4me]

Just in the cluster. It's no different than older cars with only mechanical odometers. The legal liability in on the person who signs the odometer statement at the time of sale or transfer.

Other than my morals, what's to prevent me from purchasing a lower mileage cluster and passing my car off with the lower mileage? Or, preventing someone from doing that to me? The actual chances of getting caught are pretty slim; especially if I sell in a different state.

Just playing Devil's Advocate a little. I really don't know.

 

[joegr]

Other than my morals, what's to prevent me from purchasing a lower mileage cluster and passing my car off with the lower mileage? Or, preventing someone from doing that to me? The actual chances of getting caught are pretty slim; especially if I sell in a different state.

Just playing Devil's Advocate a little. I really don't know.

There's not a lot to prevent that. If you don't have the right tool to marry it, then the dealer would put a note in their system about the cluster being swapped without the mileage being copied over.

If you had a mechanical odometer, you could just fish a wire into it and hook the wheels and turn them back. For the more popular cars, you can buy black market programmers that all you have to do is plug them in and key in the mileage that you want to set the odometer to. These would exist for the LS as well, if there had been enough of them made for there to be a enough demand for it.

Odometer fraud has been around since the first odometers, and always will be around. Storing the mileage in more than one location in a car wouldn't prevent it, it would just add an extra step to doing it.

The protections against it are just the penalties for being caught, and the times where your mileage is recorded in a database because of a title transfer or maintenance work being done. There's not a lot of profit in doing it anyway. Most will be able to tell that a 250K mile car with an odometer reading of 50K miles has been tampered with.

 

[cpgoodman]

So if its a torque converter issue is there anything i can do to diagnose it? What things should i be looking for? This seems like the most likely culprit given the way it feels when you put it in gear, esp reverse.

The chimming noise has to be due to the battery, ill run it for awhile and see if it goes away.

 

[TooManyToys]

There can be a number of sources who have documented your mileage. Manufacturers, dealerships or local garages that sell there data to sources such as CarFax. Inspection services that do safety or smog state mandated inspections. And your own insurance company that may ask for periodic mileage readings or instances where the car has been in an accident. These are all cross referenced and available to legal sources.

 

[LS4me]

So if its a torque converter issue is there anything i can do to diagnose it? What things should i be looking for? This seems like the most likely culprit given the way it feels when you put it in gear, esp reverse.

The chimming noise has to be due to the battery, ill run it for awhile and see if it goes away.

If the oil was low I would suspect low trans fluid. Have it checked and refilled as necessary.