John Quincy Adams’s Wikipedia Page Altered To Make Him A Founding Father

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John Quincy Adams’s Wikipedia Page Altered To Make Him A Founding Father

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/0...-to-make-john-quincy-adams-a-founding-father/

Congresswoman Michelle Bachmann, a candidate for the 2012 Republican Presidential nomination, has a received a lot of criticism over a comment she made stating that the Founding Fathers worked ‘tirelessly to end slavery’.
This morning on ‘Good Morning America’, George Stephanopoulos asked her if she stands by those comments.
She stated that John Quincy Adams worked tirelessly to end slavery. When George corrected her and informed her that John Quincy Adams was not a Founding Father she insisted that he was.
Now it appears that her supporters have altered Wikipedia to make it appear that John Quincy Adams was a Founding Father, even though he was only a child when his father John Adams, America’s second President, signed the Declaration of Independence.
Michelle Bachmann also misspoke yesterday, saying that John Wayne was born in Waterloo, Iowa, when in reality John Wayne Gaycee the serial killer was born in Waterloo, Iowa. The Wikipedia page for John Wayne was also changed to make his birthplace Waterloo, Iowa, even thought John Wayne was born in Winterset, Iowa.

_______________________________________________________________

Perhaps founding child would be more appropriate.
He was the son of John Adams, our second president.
This is just totally pathetic.
And conservatives accuse the media of trying to "Palinize" Bachmann
but she's doing pretty well on her own putting herself on Gilligan's Island.
She's MaryAnn to Palin's Ginger(the movie star):p
 
Yes, lets confuse a difference of option for a disregard for fact and then use that to mock conservative women. It certainly makes us feel superior.

'04, you really need to get away from ego stroking demagoguery. You are better then the groupthink of the mob.
 
Lincoln Said It Best: The Founding Fathers Opposed Slavery
By JOHN MCCORMACK

One gets the sense that some in the media are doing their best to help Michele Bachmann win the Republican nomination by attacking her over ridiculous kerfuffles. The latest example involves her claim that the Founding Fathers "worked tirelessly" to end slavery. On Good Morning America, host George Stephanopoulos told Bachmann that her claim is "just not true":
Stephanopoulos: The Pulitzer Prize winning website, Politifact, has found that you have the worst record of making false statements of any of the leading contenders. And I wondered if you wanted to take a chance to clear up some of your past statements. For example earlier this year you said that the Founding Fathers who wrote the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence worked tirelessly to end slavery. Now with respect Congresswoman, that’s just not true. Many of them including Jefferson and Washington were actually slave holders and slavery didn’t end until the Civil War.​
Pressed on the issue, Bachmann replied, "Well if you look at one of our Founding Fathers, John Quincy Adams, that’s absolutely true. He was a very young boy when he was with his father serving essentially as his father’s secretary. He tirelessly worked throughout his life to make sure that we did in fact one day eradicate slavery."

Citing only John Quincy Adams may have not made for the strongest argument, as Bachmann herself noted that he was a young boy during the revolution. But in arguing that the Founding Fathers worked to end slavery, Bachmann is on solid ground. She follows in the footsteps of the first Republican president.

The Founders put slavery on the path to ultimate extinction, Abraham Lincoln said. But the Kansas-Nebraska Act of 1854 threatened to bring about slavery's resurgence by opening up new territories to slaveowning. In 1854, Lincoln made this argument in a series of speeches on behalf of candidates opposed to the Kansas-Nebraska Act. "In these addresses Lincoln set forth the themes that he would carry into the presidency six years later," writes Princeton's James M. McPherson in the Battle Cry of Freedom. McPherson summarizes Lincoln's argument:
The founding fathers, said Lincoln, had opposed slavery. They adopted a Declaration of Independence that pronounced all men created equal. They enacted the Northwest Ordinance of 1787 banning slavery from the vast Northwest Territory. To be sure, many of the founders owned slaves. But they asserted their hostility to slavery in principle while tolerating it temporarily (as they hoped) in practice. That was why they did not mention the words "slave" or "slavery" in the Constitution, but referred only to "persons held to service." "Thus, the thing is hid away, in the constitution," said Lincoln, "just as an afflicted man hides away a wen or a cancer, which he dares not cut out at once, lest he bleed to death; with the promise, nevertheless, that the cutting may begin at the end of a given time." The first step was to prevent the spread of this cancer, which the fathers took with the Northwest Ordinance, the prohibition of the African slave trade in 1807, and the Missouri Compromise restriction of 1820. The second was to begin a process of gradual emancipation, which the generation of the fathers had accomplished in the states north of Maryland.​
Here's what Lincoln said of the Founding Fathers in his 1854 Peoria speech:
The argument of "Necessity" was the only argument they ever admitted in favor of slavery; and so far, and so far only as it carried them, did they ever go. They found the institution existing among us, which they could not help; and they cast blame upon the British King for having permitted its introduction. BEFORE the constitution, they prohibited its introduction into the north-western Territory---the only country we owned, then free from it. AT the framing and adoption of the constitution, they forbore to so much as mention the word "slave" or "slavery" in the whole instrument. In the provision for the recovery of fugitives, the slave is spoken of as a "PERSON HELD TO SERVICE OR LABOR." In that prohibiting the abolition of the African slave trade for twenty years, that trade is spoken of as "The migration or importation of such persons as any of the States NOW EXISTING, shall think proper to admit," &c. These are the only provisions alluding to slavery. Thus, the thing is hid away, in the constitution, just as an afflicted man hides away a wen or a cancer, which he dares not cut out at once, lest he bleed to death; with the promise, nevertheless, that the cutting may begin at the end of a given time. Less than this our fathers COULD not do; and NOW [MORE?] they WOULD not do. Necessity drove them so far, and farther, they would not go. But this is not all. The earliest Congress, under the constitution, took the same view of slavery. They hedged and hemmed it in to the narrowest limits of necessity.

In 1794, they prohibited an out-going slave-trade---that is, the taking of slaves FROM the United States to sell.

In 1798, they prohibited the bringing of slaves from Africa, INTO the Mississippi Territory---this territory then comprising what are now the States of Mississippi and Alabama. This was TEN YEARS before they had the authority to do the same thing as to the States existing at the adoption of the constitution.

In 1800 they prohibited AMERICAN CITIZENS from trading in slaves between foreign countries---as, for instance, from Africa to Brazil.

In 1803 they passed a law in aid of one or two State laws, in restraint of the internal slave trade.

In 1807, in apparent hot haste, they passed the law, nearly a year in advance to take effect the first day of 1808---the very first day the constitution would permit---prohibiting the African slave trade by heavy pecuniary and corporal penalties.

In 1820, finding these provisions ineffectual, they declared the trade piracy, and annexed to it, the extreme penalty of death. While all this was passing in the general government, five or six of the original slave States had adopted systems of gradual emancipation; and by which the institution was rapidly becoming extinct within these limits.

Thus we see, the plain unmistakable spirit of that age, towards slavery, was hostility to the PRINCIPLE, and toleration, ONLY BY NECESSITY.
In Lincoln's famous 1860 Cooper Union speech, he noted that of the 39 framers of the Constitution, 22 had voted on the question of banning slavery in the new territories. Twenty of the 22 voted to ban it, while another one of the Constitution's framers--George Washington--signed into law legislation enforcing the Northwest Ordinance that banned slavery in the Northwest Territories. At Cooper Union, Lincoln also quoted Thomas Jefferson, who had argued in favor of Virginia emancipation: "It is still in our power to direct the process of emancipation, and deportation, peaceably, and in such slow degrees, as that the evil will wear off insensibly...."

To be sure, the Founding Fathers weren't abolitionists. But they were overwhelmingly antislavery.

I eagerly await George Stephanopoulos's "fact check" of Honest Abe.
 
Much like Christine O'Donnell's comments on the Separation of Church and State, Bachmann's comments are so offensive to the Left because it challenges leftist othodoxy. It is accepted as dogma that the Founders were racist slaveholders and that is, in part, why the Constitution is illegitimate.

The problem is, this is ONLY dogma that cannot stand up to honest critical examination (as Lincoln showed).

Bachmann is a heretic and must be destroyed in the eyes of the Left.
 
I saw the Stephanopolos interview.

She's good at dodging questions and doesn't get flustered at the hands of the less than friendly critics and unlike Palin will admit to making a mistake and move on.

But hey even Fox asked her if she was a flake and ridicule is a potent weapon so she's fair game.
She herself has said the media is what it is and one has to work with that.
It's been slow around here for topics lately and she is one of the early Conservative frontrunners.
 
Yet another reason not to use wiki as source.

Actually what I thought more weird than the Adams thing (although she should have just come out and admitted she had the wrong Adams - lots of people do confuse the two -I would have respected the admittance) is that she got the John Wayne thing wrong - Bachmann was born in Waterloo - a fairly small community (about 60,000), you would think she would know which 'john wayne' was born there.
 
Much like Christine O'Donnell's comments on the Separation of Church and State, Bachmann's comments are so offensive to the Left because it challenges leftist othodoxy. It is accepted as dogma that the Founders were racist slaveholders and that is, in part, why the Constitution is illegitimate.

The problem is, this is ONLY dogma that cannot stand up to honest critical examination (as Lincoln showed).

Bachmann is a heretic and must be destroyed in the eyes of the Left.

Wow - shag- get off that horse.

The article never questioned that JQAdams was for or against slavery- it only questioned on whether or not he was a founding father...

Congresswoman Michelle Bachmann, a candidate for the 2012 Republican Presidential nomination, has a received a lot of criticism over a comment she made stating that the Founding Fathers worked ‘tirelessly to end slavery’.
This morning on ‘Good Morning America’, George Stephanopoulos asked her if she stands by those comments.
She stated that John Quincy Adams worked tirelessly to end slavery. When George corrected her and informed her that John Quincy Adams was not a Founding Father she insisted that he was.

Even the linked article doesn't go into the whole 'slavery' thing - only about whether or not a small child should be considered a founding father (oh, by the way - no one considers JQ Adams a founding father, except Michele I guess).
She insisted that John Quincy Adams was one of the Founding Fathers, and that he worked tirelessly to end slavery. Even when she was corrected about her assertion that John Quincy Adams was one of the Founding Fathers, she still insisted it was true. For those familiar with the Revolution, John Quincy Adams’ father, John Adams, was one of the Founding Fathers and our 2nd President.

Talk about misdirection - whew. Hope the view is nice from atop your trusty steed Shag.
 
Shag is missing the point, Do we really need another uneducated person, man or woman, to represent this country? I agree we all make mistakes, but when you continue to state historical facts incorrectly and stand by it as a fact even when presented with reality, aren't you doomed to repeat history again? correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't she the one that said the " shot heard around the world" was in New Hampshire? Does that not prove a lack of BASIC knowledge about the historical events from which the Tea Party derives its name? Surely she would know that fact.
 
The article never questioned that JQAdams was for or against slavery- it only questioned on whether or not he was a founding father...

Always want to avoid the bigger picture, don't you. :rolleyes:

(oh, by the way - no one considers JQ Adams a founding father, except Michele I guess).

Actually, I can point to quite a few people who consider him and even Lincoln as founding fathers. Scholars even. :eek:

The notion of "founding father" is vague and is opportunistically being redefined in the narrowest of terms in order to demonize.

"founding fathers" can refer to the generation that established the Constitution/DOE, it can refer to the specific individuals who helped craft the Constitution/DOE or it can refer to those who worked to realize the first principles and goals inherent in the Constitution (which would include Lincoln for fighting to preserve the Union and to realize the natural rights of blacks).

Like I said, this is an issue of opinion being mistaken for fact. The opportunism behind it is disgusting.
 
Always want to avoid the bigger picture, don't you. :rolleyes:

It isn't about the bigger picture - it is about you making this something it isn't. It isn't remotely about JQAdams being for or against slavery.

Can you point out where it is about that - please shag...

Actually, I can point to quite a few people who consider him and even Lincoln as a founding father. Scholars even. :eek:

The notion of "founding father" is vague and is opportunistically being redefined in the narrowest of terms in order to demonize.
Come on shag - If I had stated that JQAdams was a founding father you would have been all over it...

And just because some people think that his is one, doesn't mean that he is one.

Shag - you are just going off the deep end lately - why?

Scared Obama might win again? With the current list the GOP has been putting up - it is looking more and more likely. If you are defending Bachmann's claim that JQAdams is a founding father, things must be desperate out there in GOP land.
 
Shag - you are just going off the deep end lately - why?

Scared Obama might win again? With the current list the GOP has been putting up - it is looking more and more likely. If you are defending Bachmann's claim that JQAdams is a founding father, things must be desperate out there in GOP land.


NOOO he's not worried, the republicans took DNA from each one of their candidates and made the perfect republican, seems they took double doses of Palin and Bachmann

picture.php
 
It isn't about the bigger picture

ALL politics is first and foremost a contest of ideas.

When those ideas are lost in the discussion, the discussion only spreads confusion and animosity. Unsurprising that you would want to avoid those ideas.

Come on shag - If I had stated that JQAdams was a founding father you would have been all over it...

I would have looked at your argument.

And just because some people think that his is one, doesn't mean that he is one.

I agree.

That doesn't change the fact that this is opinion being opportunistically misrepresented as fact to smear Bachmann.

In fact, your "point" doesn't even confront that fact. All it does is distract from it.

Scared Obama might win again? With the current list the GOP has been putting up - it is looking more and more likely.

In a center-right nation in a severe economic downturn that is better informed then any voting populace in my life time?

By what rationale are you claiming that?

Because the political class doesn't like Bachmann or many other nominees? Name one time since the 1960's where the media preferred republican nominee had any change of winning the election?

McCain was the MSM chosen nominee and he fail.

Conversely, the media HATED Nixon and Reagan who won landslide elections to second terms in office.

Just because the political class narrative is that the GOP field is weak doesn't make it true.

Are you able to actually confront ideas that differ from that MSM narrative? Can you step away from that narrative, even for a second. If you can, I would love to see it...
 
ALL politics is first and foremost a contest of ideas.

When those ideas are lost in the discussion, the discussion only spreads confusion and animosity. Unsurprising that you would want to avoid those ideas.
Shag - whose side am I suppose to take in the slavery argument - you have taken Bachmann - correct? So I will take... Stephanopolis.

Wait - no one in the articles has come out against Bachmann's statement that JQAdams was anti slavery - so that is a non - issue here.
That doesn't change the fact that this is opinion being opportunistically misrepresented as fact to smear Bachmann.
And you bring up the fact that Obama stated we had, what was it, 54 states, at every opportunity. What is that but an opportunity to smear Obama.

She got it wrong - deal with it. She was even given an opportunity to correct herself, she insisted she was right.

Just because the political class narrative is that the GOP field is weak doesn't make it true.
So, who is strong? Who really has a hope of beating Obama.
 
And you bring up the fact that Obama stated we had, what was it, 54 states, at every opportunity.

I don't recall ever bringing that up, let along "at every opportunity".

She got it wrong - deal with it. She was even given an opportunity to correct herself, she insisted she was right.

Got what wrong?

So, who is strong? Who really has a hope of beating Obama.

Apparently you can't provide any argument for your assertion that Obama is likely to be re-elected because the GOP field is "weak".

Otherwise you wouldn't need to avoid any burden of proof...
 
shag - If you can't admit that Michele Bachmann erred when she insisted that JQAdams was a founding father, well, then, it just becomes rather silly...

And then everything else you have is colored by it. Why should I discuss the weak field of GOP candidates if you can't admit that tiny little thing?
 
shag - If you can't admit that Michele Bachmann erred when she insisted that JQAdams was a founding father, well, then, it just becomes rather silly...

Once again you won't (or can't) provide an argument to defend your claim, instead relying on repeated assertions to make your argument for you.

And then everything else you have is colored by it. Why should I discuss the weak field of GOP candidates if you can't admit that tiny little thing?

Your the one who brought up the "weak field" and said Obama was likely to be reelected. I simply presented some facts that challenged that statement and asked for an argument supporting it...which you have yet to provide.

Are you only able to rationalize a dismissal of opposing viewpoints or can you actually make an argument?
 
Shag - so you agree with ms Bachmann - JQAdams was a founding father.
 
John Quincy Adams’s Wikipedia Page Altered To Make Him A Founding Father

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/0...-to-make-john-quincy-adams-a-founding-father/

Congresswoman Michelle Bachmann, a candidate for the 2012 Republican Presidential nomination, has a received a lot of criticism over a comment she made stating that the Founding Fathers worked ‘tirelessly to end slavery’.
This morning on ‘Good Morning America’, George Stephanopoulos asked her if she stands by those comments.
She stated that John Quincy Adams worked tirelessly to end slavery. When George corrected her and informed her that John Quincy Adams was not a Founding Father she insisted that he was.
Now it appears that her supporters have altered Wikipedia to make it appear that John Quincy Adams was a Founding Father, even though he was only a child when his father John Adams, America’s second President, signed the Declaration of Independence.
Michelle Bachmann also misspoke yesterday, saying that John Wayne was born in Waterloo, Iowa, when in reality John Wayne Gaycee the serial killer was born in Waterloo, Iowa. The Wikipedia page for John Wayne was also changed to make his birthplace Waterloo, Iowa, even thought John Wayne was born in Winterset, Iowa.

_______________________________________________________________

Perhaps founding child would be more appropriate.
He was the son of John Adams, our second president.
This is just totally pathetic.
And conservatives accuse the media of trying to "Palinize" Bachmann
but she's doing pretty well on her own putting herself on Gilligan's Island.
She's MaryAnn to Palin's Ginger(the movie star):p

But I don't see Libs upset about Obama lying about how he created/saved 2 Million jobs but are upset about whether or not Wiki has been altered. lol!
 
Hail to the Housewife

Can Michele Bachmann be the leader of the free world and still obey her husband like a good evangelical?

http://www.slate.com/id/2297931/

In a speech at a mega-church in the Minneapolis area back in 2006, Michele Bachmann explained her decision to pursue tax law. It wasn't her choice, exactly. God had already told her to go to law school; God had also told her to marry a fellow named Marcus Bachmann. Now Marcus told her "to go and get a post-doctorate degree in tax law." This was not a particular desire of Michele's ("Tax law? I hate taxes!"), but she was certain God was speaking through her husband.
"Why should I go and do something like that?" she recalled thinking. "But the Lord says, 'Be submissive wives; you are to be submissive to your husbands.'"
For non-evangelical Christians, this sounds ludicrous: How can a woman who believes in submitting to her husband's will aspire to be president of the United States? Is she going to have to ask Marcus' permission every time she wants to throw a state dinner?
This apparent contradiction—how you can be leader of the free world and yet subordinate to some guy —has proved no less confusing to the nation's conservative evangelicals. For them, the justification for a Bachmann presidential run lies in a very careful, some would say tortured, theological interpretation that emerged during Sarah Palin's vice-presidential candidacy in 2008.
The solution to the "Palin Predicament," as it's been called, is laid out on the website of the influential Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood. The council, which was established in 1987 to fight "the growing movement of feminist egalitarianism," espouses something called complementarianism—the idea that while men and women are equal they nevertheless must play different (read: unequal) parts. Men are destined to occupy leadership roles in home and at church, while women are obliged to "grow in willing, joyful submission to their husbands' leadership." But the civic sphere is distinct from home and church and governed by different rules, these evangelicals reasoned, and if the Bible didn't explicitly "prohibit [women] from exercising leadership in secular political fields," neither would they.
Still, the compromise was an uneasy one. R. Albert Mohler Jr., president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, said that while he liked Palin's political views, he worried about the effect of her candidacy on her domestic priorities. "It would be hypocritical of me to suggest that I would be perfectly happy to have Christian young women believe that being Vice President of the United States is more important than being a wife and mother," he wrote two months before the 2008 election. And several more patriarchal-minded evangelicals opposed Palin's candidacy outright, suggesting that "her political career violates her calling to be a wife, mother, and keeper at home," and even calling a vote for her ticket "a vote for a curse."
If anything, Bachmann makes these knotty issues more prominent than Palin's vice-presidential candidacy ever did. For one thing, Bachmann is running for the highest office in the land, not the second-highest. And so far as I can tell, Palin has never spoken about the righteousness of being subservient to her husband. (Not many prominent politicians have in recent years. Notable exceptions are Christine O'Donnell, the former U.S. Senate candidate from Delaware, and former presidential candidate Mike Huckabee.)
Then there is the Palin marriage, on display since 2008 during campaign stops, in interviews, and on reality television. For as much as her political views and demeanor have incensed liberals, Sarah Palin's relationship with Todd appears to be an egalitarian one, in which Todd cooks, does the dishes, buys groceries, and often cares for the children while his wife is at work. Bachmann, meanwhile, has called quitting work to be a stay-at-home mother her "dream." She's made much of the fact that she is running for president after completing the raising of her five children and 23 foster children. "Sometimes you just need to have patience and wait to do certain things in your life," she told Ralph Reed recently, in what sounded an awful lot like a jab at Palin.
It's hard to tell what, exactly, the notion of wifely submission means in marriages where the wife in question has a high-powered career outside of the home. Last year's New York Times Magazine piece on female evangelical leaders described these unions as enacting a "soft patriarchalism." The article focused on evangelical Bible teacher named Priscilla Shirer, who defers to her husband in some decisions (their son's name, for instance), even as her husband does housework and travels to support her career. It's tempting to think that these evangelicals have merely found their way, in roundabout fashion, to a view of gender that feminists reached a long time ago.
Except they haven't. Soft patriarchalism and feminism are incompatible, even when they look similar. Moderate evangelical and ethicist David Gushee pointed out this fundamental hypocrisy during the debate over the Palin Predicment: If his fellow Christians supported a woman in a position of civic leadership, they should logically support the notion of women exercising leadership in church and at home—but most of them don't. And Bachmann has explicitly rejected the title of feminist, calling herself an "empowered American." (Palin, meanwhile, has called herself a feminist, and even if you think this description impossibly wrongheaded, it suggests a certain engagement with the idea of female equality.)
Bachmann's description of herself as "pro-woman and pro-man" suggests a contentment with the status quo, as far as gender goes. Indeed, it may imply something more—that as a woman who defers to her husband, she believes herself to be more liberated than secular feminists are. According to Karen Seat, a religious studies professor at the University of Arizona, some conservative evangelicals argue that women's deference is itself empowering, because it's what God intends, and because it is the fullest expression of womanhood. In this world of opposites, submission is strength and inequity is proof of equality. It's quite possible that a President Bachmann would primarily define herself not as the first female president of the United States, but as a wife and mother. And she would not see that as anything less than progress.

_______________________________________________________________

But the civic sphere is distinct from home and church and governed by different rules, these evangelicals reasoned, and if the Bible didn't explicitly "prohibit [women] from exercising leadership in secular political fields," neither would they.

This is so hypocritical.
The civic sphere is governed by different rules which is why religion and politics are to be kept seperate.
The evangelicals have no business trying to impose their rules in politics by their own unwitting self admission.
 

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