Good for you for talking more s*h*i*t*
GEN1 LS1 SWAP Lincoln Ls
- Thread starter ChiTownLS
- Start date
Good for you for talking more s*h*i*t*
Ls1 cause it fits, and like loudls said big displacement in a small package. The mod list is plentiful. Newer models have more electrical work than needed that I just don't want to get my hands into. Why a LicolnLs? I have one, I want to build it, vettes aren't 4-doors and It's been done before so I can hopefully get some help on certain grey areas I may need help with.
P.s. I'm not worried about registering my car in Cali haha
P.s. I'm not worried about registering my car in Cali haha
1LoudLS
Dedicated LVC Member
but so does a LS2 or LS3! if your going to go through the trouble...make it worth it!
Telco
Dedicated LVC Member
Another one eh? I'd like to see it happen and will give you the same advice I give everyone else who wants to do this.
Check into SCT tuning software to see what all they can tune for you. If they can alter the programming to the larger displacement then you're golden, just modify the engine to accept Ford sensors. If not, then you will want to go with the Chevy electrical which really would be the best way to go. For this, to get the Ford electronics to work since the LS is so computer-dependent you will want to modify the Chevy engine to accept both the Chevy and Ford sensors. You will also want to get the Ford computer's DTCs turned off so as to not have a constant check engine light. The Chevy sensors will keep the engine happy, the Ford sensors will keep the air conditioning, seats, windows, and ABS working. I don't know if ETC would work or not because I don't know if it retards timing or if it just messes with the brakes.
I'd also forget the LS1 engine. It's a step up from the Jag engine but there are so many better choices out there today. I think I'd go with a newer 6.2L with the 6 speed auto. Like Loud says, if you're going to do it make it worthwhile. With the newer 6.2 you get VVT, AFM and if new enough direct inject heads. This will get you high mileage when cruising (I was able to get 19MPG on the highway dogging out a Suburban at 80+MPH with the VVT and AFM), probably 30MPG or better and will likely pull down 12 second quarters just with the stock setup.
Check into SCT tuning software to see what all they can tune for you. If they can alter the programming to the larger displacement then you're golden, just modify the engine to accept Ford sensors. If not, then you will want to go with the Chevy electrical which really would be the best way to go. For this, to get the Ford electronics to work since the LS is so computer-dependent you will want to modify the Chevy engine to accept both the Chevy and Ford sensors. You will also want to get the Ford computer's DTCs turned off so as to not have a constant check engine light. The Chevy sensors will keep the engine happy, the Ford sensors will keep the air conditioning, seats, windows, and ABS working. I don't know if ETC would work or not because I don't know if it retards timing or if it just messes with the brakes.
I'd also forget the LS1 engine. It's a step up from the Jag engine but there are so many better choices out there today. I think I'd go with a newer 6.2L with the 6 speed auto. Like Loud says, if you're going to do it make it worthwhile. With the newer 6.2 you get VVT, AFM and if new enough direct inject heads. This will get you high mileage when cruising (I was able to get 19MPG on the highway dogging out a Suburban at 80+MPH with the VVT and AFM), probably 30MPG or better and will likely pull down 12 second quarters just with the stock setup.
Lots of negativity these day on the forum. Putting a LSX engine and 6-speed manual trans in a LS is easy and straight forward "mechanically". As stated in a previous post, integrating a GM harness and ECM into the car is the bigger project. Ford and GM Electrical don't talk to each other. If you really decide to do this, first get up to speed on GM CAN, If you want the car to have functional integrated gauges and interior electronics, you will likely have to rewire 90% of the car. If you don't care about things like elecric windows, door locks, ABS, traction control, HVAC and many other sub systems, then purchase a GM rodder harness and run the engine independant of the rest of the car. Plan on $15 to $25K if you want a car that runs well and modify it to can handle the power. Installing the engine/trans is easy. Adapting the car's other sub system will drive you crazy! Others are making snyde comments because they understand what it takes to do this kind of swap, and think it is a rediculous expenditure of money when you can purchase a faster and newer car for the same amount of money without having to do all the work.
Example: GM ECMs are integrated to the BCM. BCM and ECM tie into ABS and traction control systems. Ford ABS, traction control and wheel speed sensors are different than GM. Therefore you either have to convert signals or redo the car. Wheel sensor swap, ABS/TCSmodule brake master cylinder, Pitch and yaw sensor. Get the picture?
All I write is based on fact, because 4+ years ago I put a 2010 Camero LS3 and TR6060 Trans into a 2000 Jaguar S-type. The Mechanical installation was easy. The Electrical has really slowed down the project. I am sure I have al least $15K into the car and it still isn't running. (There are other factors, like working away from home for 2 years, then getting side tracked on a 2003 STR, with a planned 600HP engine build, and then moving 2000 miles and purchaing a house that I am refurbishing.)
ChiTown. Read this thread and it will give you a different perspective. http://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...estions-about-2000-s-type-blown-engine-33719/
I'de like to see another person put in a LSX into a DEW98 platform.
Example: GM ECMs are integrated to the BCM. BCM and ECM tie into ABS and traction control systems. Ford ABS, traction control and wheel speed sensors are different than GM. Therefore you either have to convert signals or redo the car. Wheel sensor swap, ABS/TCSmodule brake master cylinder, Pitch and yaw sensor. Get the picture?
All I write is based on fact, because 4+ years ago I put a 2010 Camero LS3 and TR6060 Trans into a 2000 Jaguar S-type. The Mechanical installation was easy. The Electrical has really slowed down the project. I am sure I have al least $15K into the car and it still isn't running. (There are other factors, like working away from home for 2 years, then getting side tracked on a 2003 STR, with a planned 600HP engine build, and then moving 2000 miles and purchaing a house that I am refurbishing.)
ChiTown. Read this thread and it will give you a different perspective. http://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...estions-about-2000-s-type-blown-engine-33719/
I'de like to see another person put in a LSX into a DEW98 platform.
2002_lincolnLS
Custom User Title
Thanks bro, who doesn't like a pat on the back
G-RELL
FULLY DIPPED LS
and another one bites the dust...
Telco
Dedicated LVC Member
Possibly. There are folks such as myself who do not fear wiring. The ABS could be conquered just by visiting a salvage yard to get a complete Camaro rear subframe to swap in, along with the Camaro's front suspension. Wouldn't be plug and play, but it would be close enough that it could be modified to fit plus you'll have a more fully supported suspension that doesn't need to be rebuilt with parts that are no longer made every 100K miles.
The HVAC is also a simple fix, you rip out that disaster Ford stuck in and replace it with a standard style AC system. A Vintage Air system would work well, as would a Toyota Corolla or Camry HVAC system. The Corolla system keeps the poorly insulated Corolla ice box cold on the hottest day, so should be able to keep the slightly larger and well insulated cabin of the LS comfortably cool on the hottest days. The Camry system would definitely do it but as it's larger may have fitment problems. Heated and cooled seats? Recover with cloth and you no longer need them. Traction control? Not really needed if you know how to drive to begin with, traction control is just the government requiring cars to be able to compensate for poor drivers.
The HVAC is also a simple fix, you rip out that disaster Ford stuck in and replace it with a standard style AC system. A Vintage Air system would work well, as would a Toyota Corolla or Camry HVAC system. The Corolla system keeps the poorly insulated Corolla ice box cold on the hottest day, so should be able to keep the slightly larger and well insulated cabin of the LS comfortably cool on the hottest days. The Camry system would definitely do it but as it's larger may have fitment problems. Heated and cooled seats? Recover with cloth and you no longer need them. Traction control? Not really needed if you know how to drive to begin with, traction control is just the government requiring cars to be able to compensate for poor drivers.
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
There has been an on-going and frequently acrimonious debate regarding the use of the latest iterations of the chibrolay small block engine for engine swaps---over on the YellowBullet forum. Supporters usually claim that one of the benefits to so doing is that they can be bought in the boneyards for $100 or so or, in more extreme cases that you'll be paid to carry one away. Another claim is that you simply bolt them in (It's ridiculously easy!!!) and whatever the vehicle, the result will be to run 9s in the quarter. Even better if you add an aftermarket cam. I believe it's all a propaganda attempt from the Mullett Brigade but at the very least it's amusing. I invite you to visit YB and see for yourself.
Wiser heads chime in to point out that, as with every other engine, you get what you pay for. By the time you get a cheap engine 'up to snuff' you'll have spent several thousand dollars, and you'll still have to adapt, somehow, the transmission you choose to use.
An alternative would be to get a Jaguar-sourced AJ engine. In that case you really do have a direct bolt-in. They're available in various sizes---the first one I bought cost $700 delivered. At 4 litres, it had about a 300HP output. Recently shopping online, I found several of the 4.2 litre blower engines, with about a 400HP output, for $3K-$3500---delivered and with a multi-year warranty. As I've observed elsewhere, getting such an engine to 'play' seamlessly with a Lincoln LS MIGHT take some replacement of a sensor or two but if you have any experience with engine-swapping you'll readily recognize the benefits to be found in a quite-simple replacement instead of trying to match up 'foreigners'.
My own personal opinion is that to put a GM engine in a Lincoln LS is to S H I T in the engine compartment. That's my point of view , but then, I'm quite brand focused. Your opinion may vary.
KS
Wiser heads chime in to point out that, as with every other engine, you get what you pay for. By the time you get a cheap engine 'up to snuff' you'll have spent several thousand dollars, and you'll still have to adapt, somehow, the transmission you choose to use.
An alternative would be to get a Jaguar-sourced AJ engine. In that case you really do have a direct bolt-in. They're available in various sizes---the first one I bought cost $700 delivered. At 4 litres, it had about a 300HP output. Recently shopping online, I found several of the 4.2 litre blower engines, with about a 400HP output, for $3K-$3500---delivered and with a multi-year warranty. As I've observed elsewhere, getting such an engine to 'play' seamlessly with a Lincoln LS MIGHT take some replacement of a sensor or two but if you have any experience with engine-swapping you'll readily recognize the benefits to be found in a quite-simple replacement instead of trying to match up 'foreigners'.
My own personal opinion is that to put a GM engine in a Lincoln LS is to S H I T in the engine compartment. That's my point of view , but then, I'm quite brand focused. Your opinion may vary.
KS
1LoudLS
Dedicated LVC Member
My own personal opinion is that to put a GM engine in a Lincoln LS is to S H I T in the engine compartment. That's my point of view , but then, I'm quite brand focused. Your opinion may vary.
my opinion is that ford already did a good job taking a huge sh1t in the engine compartment... lol
I remember back a few years ago when I used to hate everything with a bow tie on it, then i realized that i was just hating on them because they were fords biggest competition. after seeing a quite a few built cars just kicking ass at the track for quite a lot less than all of the ford cars that were getting beaten, i realized they really aint that bad and i needed to stop hating just to hate. now i realize as long as its real american, I dont care, they are all better than anything toyota or the other throw this way!:burnout:
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
There has been an 'accepted-as-reality' notion around since the late fifties that a chibbie is cheaper to build than anything else. An honest side-by-side comparison will show quite significant parity. Bare blocks cost about the same, cranks ditto, and the same can be said for all the other major pieces.
The mullett brigade make quite a noise regarding the low-dollar cost for a junk-yard chib LS, but a little shopping will easily turn up comparable prices for many other brands in equivalent condition. And aftermarket aluminum heads for a small-block Ford seem to be selling, ready to bolt on, starting at the mid 300 dollar range. As with all parts, premium stuff costs more without any reference to brand name of the original car manufacturer.
Your opinion of the AJ engine series shows either significant bias or profound ignorance. For example, my original 3.9 has about 160K miles on it. I bought the car new. I've replaced the coils and plugs, although I did so---going to ACCEL Mustang units---when I started the use of the nitrous oxide/methanol mix for land speed racing, not because any had failed. I've never had the cam covers off and the plug wells are not oiled. I got a bit racy on the e-way the other day and found that it pulled past 7K without hesitation. Aside from the NX system and the coils, everything else is original. I do change the oil about every 10K miles and have used Mobil 1 since the free oil changes from the dealer ran out at 40K.
The engine has been beat on in a pretty aggressive fashion. My NX system has the flow capacity to add about 450 HP although I've never pushed it that far. The factory pistons and rods might not like it. I've run 150 + of nitrous oxide and a parallel amount of methanol in the car constantly since 2007. It's a tough engine and you might make note that back in 1998 or -9 the AJ design was voted one of the ten best of the time on a worldwide basis.
The AJ engine series is the choice in the Jaguar line, the Land Rovers, and the Aston Martins, as well as the LS, and the Thunderbird in this country.
What's not to like?
KS
The mullett brigade make quite a noise regarding the low-dollar cost for a junk-yard chib LS, but a little shopping will easily turn up comparable prices for many other brands in equivalent condition. And aftermarket aluminum heads for a small-block Ford seem to be selling, ready to bolt on, starting at the mid 300 dollar range. As with all parts, premium stuff costs more without any reference to brand name of the original car manufacturer.
Your opinion of the AJ engine series shows either significant bias or profound ignorance. For example, my original 3.9 has about 160K miles on it. I bought the car new. I've replaced the coils and plugs, although I did so---going to ACCEL Mustang units---when I started the use of the nitrous oxide/methanol mix for land speed racing, not because any had failed. I've never had the cam covers off and the plug wells are not oiled. I got a bit racy on the e-way the other day and found that it pulled past 7K without hesitation. Aside from the NX system and the coils, everything else is original. I do change the oil about every 10K miles and have used Mobil 1 since the free oil changes from the dealer ran out at 40K.
The engine has been beat on in a pretty aggressive fashion. My NX system has the flow capacity to add about 450 HP although I've never pushed it that far. The factory pistons and rods might not like it. I've run 150 + of nitrous oxide and a parallel amount of methanol in the car constantly since 2007. It's a tough engine and you might make note that back in 1998 or -9 the AJ design was voted one of the ten best of the time on a worldwide basis.
The AJ engine series is the choice in the Jaguar line, the Land Rovers, and the Aston Martins, as well as the LS, and the Thunderbird in this country.
What's not to like?
KS
1LoudLS
Dedicated LVC Member
except for the part where a ford motor has way more parts inside of it... look at a mustang and a camaro, how is buying 4 cams going to cost the same as buying just one? need a valve job? well thats twice the amount of time at the machine shop as there are twice as many valves, springs and everything else... hell you can get LS3 heads for a lot less than half the price of coyote heads, unless of course im crazy and you get all the extra parts inside for free...
again, even if these cost of each part is about the same, your going to be saving a lot of money by only buying half as many of a lot of the parts...
well for starters, the one we got... also, pretty safe to say that with in the thunderbird enthusiast community, the AJ motor cars are by far the least popular...
now if all the range rovers and aston martins came with our motor instead of the version they actually came with, they would probably not be anywhere near as fast or powerful nor would you see their cars selling for 100k+
well I guess that goes to show even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while... even you have to be relieved that you havent been bother with all the other problems that plague this board almost daily
come on, you know darn well that by an extremely large margin that most of those miles have been in daily driven fashion, without any spray being used... and of course it doesn t matter how much potential your spray system has if you know darn well that you cant take it that high unless you want to pop your motor. yes everybody is aware of the AJ being one of Wards 10 best motors in 2000, besides than the 2 other ford and toyota V8s, all were all 6 cylinders and a 4 banger... stiff competition there.
all that aside, you really going to sit there and tell us that you could build an AJ based lincoln LS that could match what a LS powered Cadillac (and we'll be nice and just count the non supercharged versions) can do for the same or less money? not a chance... you can make a 12 second car with just a cam and heads with the early LS caddies, you're not doing that with an AJ LS for anywhere near that cheap. its also nice that you can pretty much go to a local store and get anything you need, or order forged internals, or a stroker kit and have them/it here by the end of the week. instead of calling 30 different people trying to figure out where and how you can get your hands on something or waiting for it to get shipped from england and having to take a decade to build it up...
you have been around the hotrod scene long enough... can you please remind me what they always say about what there is no replacement for? there is no way you're going to be able to make the same kind of power that a motor that is 50% bigger makes for less money... youre always going to be playing catch up!
but I'm sure you're so right, what a terrible and expensive motor the LS(or even current LT) is, you would have to be a fool to want such a thing.
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Watch this space.
KS
KS
General comment on engine swaps: I believe that one of the reasons the majority of people with dreams of swapping engines dies, is that once they investigate how much work and money its costs, they realize it isn't worth it. They also find out they don't have all the tools needed to make it possible. To do it right, you need a decent welder that can weld aluminum. A knee mill helps. Engine hoist, engine stand, jack stands, floor jack/s. A good selection of metric sockets and wrenches. Numerous specialty tools. Parts cleaning, pressure washer. The list goes on-and-on. Swappers seldom mention how much money they spend on equipment and tools.
Once an engine is in the car, we quickly forget the long hours fitting and fabricating parts.
Example: When I put a LS3 into the S-type, I remember the overall project going well, but until this thread, I forgot about all the research I did on Chevy oil pans, trying to find the best one to modify. I purchased several pans in the $200/each price range. I purchased a second engine cross brace, and a plastic LSx mock-up block. I spent over $1K on supporting parts just to figure out how to modify the oil pan to make it fit around the cross brace. Then I had to cut the pan and fabricate all the piece parts and then weld up the pan. It took easily 100+ hours for this task alone. Since this is a hobby, I didn't document what it took to create the pan. But for anyone considering a LSx swap into a LS body. Add a lot of time into your schedule to design and fabricate the oil pan and oil pick-up line. (Forgot about the oil pick-up line - At least another 40 hours of piecing together tubing in order to get it to sit perfectly in the bottom of the oil pan.) - Forgot that LS3 oil pickup line is plastic. I had to track down older Chevy metal oil pick-up lines and purchase several different ones in order to cut them into the right parts to weld up.
Once an engine is in the car, we quickly forget the long hours fitting and fabricating parts.
Example: When I put a LS3 into the S-type, I remember the overall project going well, but until this thread, I forgot about all the research I did on Chevy oil pans, trying to find the best one to modify. I purchased several pans in the $200/each price range. I purchased a second engine cross brace, and a plastic LSx mock-up block. I spent over $1K on supporting parts just to figure out how to modify the oil pan to make it fit around the cross brace. Then I had to cut the pan and fabricate all the piece parts and then weld up the pan. It took easily 100+ hours for this task alone. Since this is a hobby, I didn't document what it took to create the pan. But for anyone considering a LSx swap into a LS body. Add a lot of time into your schedule to design and fabricate the oil pan and oil pick-up line. (Forgot about the oil pick-up line - At least another 40 hours of piecing together tubing in order to get it to sit perfectly in the bottom of the oil pan.) - Forgot that LS3 oil pickup line is plastic. I had to track down older Chevy metal oil pick-up lines and purchase several different ones in order to cut them into the right parts to weld up.
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waggs
Dedicated LVC Member
Like that dash
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
On the lunatic fringe side, I, very long ago, was an occasional observer of an effort to install an Allison engine into a Model A sedan. It worked, after a fashion, with the driver squeezed in next to the engine that took up virtually all the interior of the car.
ANYTHING can be accomplished with enough creativity.
Tijoe, you make good points. And they're very good reasons why I'll stay with the AJ engine.
KS
ANYTHING can be accomplished with enough creativity.
Tijoe, you make good points. And they're very good reasons why I'll stay with the AJ engine.
KS
Telco
Dedicated LVC Member
Some of us don't mind mixing and matching if it gets us exactly what we want. For example, my Chevy reg cab truck has a Ford crewcab center console. Fits perfectly except on the front bottom where there's a 1 inch gap that you have to stick your head down there to see, looks like it was made for the truck. And, a Chevy engine is the biggest bang for the buck out there. It's not just the price, it's the power for the price. Can't beat it, and with standalone wiring harnesses they can go into anything. Best of all, the aftermarket is so well supported that it costs quite a bit less to add 100HP to the engine using hard parts than it does for other makes.
On putting the Chevy engine in the newer Jaguar, the first guy that does it does spend a mint and a lot of time but if he keeps track of what he does, when he's finished he has a saleable kit. That's what the guys that own jagsthatrun.com did. Their kit is pretty crappy, but it is a one stop shop to put a Gen 1 Chevy into an older Jaguar. With their parts and directions you can convert one in a couple of days although the guy that developed the kit probably spent a year or two on it.
On putting the Chevy engine in the newer Jaguar, the first guy that does it does spend a mint and a lot of time but if he keeps track of what he does, when he's finished he has a saleable kit. That's what the guys that own jagsthatrun.com did. Their kit is pretty crappy, but it is a one stop shop to put a Gen 1 Chevy into an older Jaguar. With their parts and directions you can convert one in a couple of days although the guy that developed the kit probably spent a year or two on it.
Telco
Dedicated LVC Member
The kits originally came out in the 1970s and the engines had carbs because that was all there was. And no, there's nothing worse than a Gen 2 Chevy engine. Given a choice between the finest of Yugoslavian technology and a Gen 2, call me Borscht. The only thing wrong with tbi engines is the head intake ports are about the size of your thumb. Put decent heads and a dual plane intake with TBI adapter on and a TBI engine makes tons of power.
Andrew at Jaguar specialties has come the closest to putting in LSx engines into Newer model Jaguars. He worked with someone to create a signal conversion kit. but I believe it only Supports ODBII and early distributed network cars. Once auto manufacturers went to CAN systems, It is really difficult to cross electrical. I spent a lot of time looking into a GM to FORD CAN code converter. The converter is easy. Backwards engineering all the CAN messages for 2 different cars, was a huge project I decided wasn't worth my time. If you crack all the codes for the 2 cars, all the messages are only good for for these cars. In GM cars, many of the modules are all the same, but programmed with different codes and messages. Even though many models use the same engine and similar electrical harnesses, Corvette messages are different from Camaro and Cadillac.
They only keep OBDII stantardized codes common to all their vehicles.
If you spend all the time figuring out how to integrate a LSX engine into a LS, and create a kit, how many could you sell? Only a handfull of people globally would want to put $20+K into an older car. No Payback!
They only keep OBDII stantardized codes common to all their vehicles.
If you spend all the time figuring out how to integrate a LSX engine into a LS, and create a kit, how many could you sell? Only a handfull of people globally would want to put $20+K into an older car. No Payback!
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
Hey Loud---
Let's try to put a cap on this discussion. I've been out of town for the last few days and didn't have the time to follow what was being said. I just went through your argument and although I wont try to deal with all the issues you've brought to us I do think some of it deserves rebuttal.
I note that you've tried to jump from generalities to specifics without any attempt to tie things together properly---or to compare apples to apples. The oft-mentioned bull-S H I T that shivvorlet engines are cheaper to deal with simply doesn't hold water. And your example of the cost of multiple camshafts is only one small point---but our discussion here has had to do with stovebolt engines as compared to AJ engines to be put into our Lincolns.
My point is that the blown 4.2 engine from a Jag will bolt directly into a Lincoln with almost no necessity for fabrication. 4.2 engines are readily available, with a warranty, for a cost very close to $3000. It MAY be necessary to change some of the sensors to get proper readings but they are inexpensive and simply screw into place. The installation of the engine into the chassis is a simple bolt-in. In my car there is an already-extant nitrous oxide/methanol system that will move the available horsepower up beyond the factory 400-or-so to whatever you might want to approach.
I don't know what an equivalent chib-motor will cost but when it's setting on the floor in your garage you'll find it necessary to go through the mechanations---and the costs---outlined by tijoe to make the pan fit and to connect the transmission and so on. And when the engine is in and running you'll have to either replace or crossbreed the electronic/electric connections so as to get all the rest of the car to work.
I'd rather change a sensor or two---and I'm not sure even that will be necessary.
As far as the "no replacement for displacement" bromide let me call attention to the early Ford 999. It had, as I remember, almost 1200 cubic inches of displacement---and made a bit less than 100 HP. We now have regular passenger car engines of 120 CID or thereabouts that give us 350 HP. THERE IS A REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT AND IT'S CALLED MODERN TECHNOLOGY.
KS
Let's try to put a cap on this discussion. I've been out of town for the last few days and didn't have the time to follow what was being said. I just went through your argument and although I wont try to deal with all the issues you've brought to us I do think some of it deserves rebuttal.
I note that you've tried to jump from generalities to specifics without any attempt to tie things together properly---or to compare apples to apples. The oft-mentioned bull-S H I T that shivvorlet engines are cheaper to deal with simply doesn't hold water. And your example of the cost of multiple camshafts is only one small point---but our discussion here has had to do with stovebolt engines as compared to AJ engines to be put into our Lincolns.
My point is that the blown 4.2 engine from a Jag will bolt directly into a Lincoln with almost no necessity for fabrication. 4.2 engines are readily available, with a warranty, for a cost very close to $3000. It MAY be necessary to change some of the sensors to get proper readings but they are inexpensive and simply screw into place. The installation of the engine into the chassis is a simple bolt-in. In my car there is an already-extant nitrous oxide/methanol system that will move the available horsepower up beyond the factory 400-or-so to whatever you might want to approach.
I don't know what an equivalent chib-motor will cost but when it's setting on the floor in your garage you'll find it necessary to go through the mechanations---and the costs---outlined by tijoe to make the pan fit and to connect the transmission and so on. And when the engine is in and running you'll have to either replace or crossbreed the electronic/electric connections so as to get all the rest of the car to work.
I'd rather change a sensor or two---and I'm not sure even that will be necessary.
As far as the "no replacement for displacement" bromide let me call attention to the early Ford 999. It had, as I remember, almost 1200 cubic inches of displacement---and made a bit less than 100 HP. We now have regular passenger car engines of 120 CID or thereabouts that give us 350 HP. THERE IS A REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT AND IT'S CALLED MODERN TECHNOLOGY.
KS
1LoudLS
Dedicated LVC Member
you always talk about how easy this is, but yet most of us have been waiting for the better part of a decade to actually see it happen... hopefully by the time you do get it finished to show us all how simple and cheap it really is, there will still be enough LSs around for this place to still be relevant.
the only benefit in THIS application is that it may be easier, and that there is a better chance in not having to figure out how to get a lot of the electronics to work*
and how easy we forget that pretty much everything that can be done to a small motor can be done to a big motor.
making power is really as simple as math....
air + fuel + fire = boom if you want to talk apples to apples, then 10psi added to 254 cubic inches will not make the same power as 10psi added to 375-427 cubic inches. 20psi on 254 cubic inches will not make as much power 20 psi on 375-427 cubic inches...
so what is this mysterious modern technology? variable valve technology? EFI? the computers? those big spinning turbines? Hybrid assist?
is that why two of the fastest (production) cars in the world are an over complicated ugly French German bastard and a good old fashion american push rod Bow Tie wearing V8?
dont forget, most of these "modern technology" upgrades usual come from changes in government standards. engines need to make less pollution or need to get more MPGs, so they have to make the motors smaller and THEN dump millions into figuring out how to make up for all that loss of power. the best part is most of that stuff can still be done to chevy's engines.
*allegedly
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
Hey Loud---
You seem to be hunched-over with your eyes squinted shut, your fingers in your ears and loudly shouting lalalalalalalala to avoid addressing my points.
tijoe, above, has delineated the work necessary to get a different sort of engine to fit and to play with the extant electronics in an LS Lincoln. Since the car, without the functions operable for a daily driver, makes no real sort of sense---witness the car that re-appears about every few minutes as being for sale---it would seem that a combo in which everything works and needs as little work as possible to get it into that state would be the best goal.
I have the distinct impression that you are arguing just to be contrary. Have fun!
In response to your comments---Grunch, but an eggplant over there! It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide! (All this makes as much sense as what you've had to say.)
KS
You seem to be hunched-over with your eyes squinted shut, your fingers in your ears and loudly shouting lalalalalalalala to avoid addressing my points.
tijoe, above, has delineated the work necessary to get a different sort of engine to fit and to play with the extant electronics in an LS Lincoln. Since the car, without the functions operable for a daily driver, makes no real sort of sense---witness the car that re-appears about every few minutes as being for sale---it would seem that a combo in which everything works and needs as little work as possible to get it into that state would be the best goal.
I have the distinct impression that you are arguing just to be contrary. Have fun!
In response to your comments---Grunch, but an eggplant over there! It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide! (All this makes as much sense as what you've had to say.)
KS