Here's an Interesting Problem

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PRSPlayer39

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Hey Folks,

New member, but it's already been a huge help with my "new to me" LS.

Great car! Bought it to pile on highway commuting miles ... love the way it cruises the interstate! 2002 LS V8 Sport with just over 100,000 miles, but really good condition overall.

So bought it knowing it had a few issues to be resolved. Did enough homework to have a pretty good idea what those were. Had a front end clunk, replaced sway bar bushings (thank you forum DIY write up!) ... clunk gone. Periodic misfires, went ahead and replaced all coils with Visteon's and new plugs. Bought the valve cover gaskets too, but didn't find any oil in the plug wells, so skipped that part. Also went ahead and did a fuel filter while I had the front wheels off. Put some Seafoam in the tank just for good measure.

So prior to doing all this work, as I said, I had the skipping/misfire type issues. Also one time while accelerating it also seemed like it just died completely, but caught back in a second or two then ran fine. Not the same as the skipping misfires. Hoped one of the fixes above would take care of that.

So now it gets interesting ... after doing that work, the skipping misfires are gone. Mileage improved significantly and the car seemed to be running great.
Then I get the "seemed like it died" issue a few more times over the course of a few days. Took it out and blew it out pretty good one afternoon, seemed to run really well ... fun car to drive by the way. During this drive noticed a CEL, had the code checked ... 442 which is usually attributed to gas cap ... hadn't put gas in it in a week, had also driven a few days since the fuel filter replacement, so not sure on this one ...

The next morning tried to start the car and it did something like a backfire, but from under the hood. A lot of white smoke poured out from under the hood and into the cabin through the vents. What the &^% ... Looked under the hood all looked normal, no signs of oil leaks or anything. Started it again and it seemd to run fine. Now it's occasionally a little hard to start, still getting the periodic "seemed like it died" while accelerating every now and then. No codes get thrown from either of these events, just still the 442 that I haven't cleared.

So any ideas on what that backfire event was, and what are some things I should be checking for this hard starting and "seemed like it died" while accelerating issue. I've done numerous searches, but haven't really found anything that sounds like these symptoms (that aren't related to coils ;-)

Thanks in advance! Great forum!
 
Have you checked your under the oil cap and dipstick to check for "chocolate milk" indicative of a blown headgasket? It might be good to rule that out from the start.
 
Here's a wild guess. Check the PCM relay and PCM relay socket in the trunk.
 
Check and clean your MAF, I have had dirty MAF's cause symptoms exactly as you described, almost as if the engine cuts off for a split-second then resumes normal operation. Usually under mid-load.
 
Good ideas both. RallyUSA what you describe is exactly it ... it is always under mid-load. If it is the MAF, I'm a bit surprised it wouldn't throw a code. But easy enough to clean and see what happens ... I have a service manual so I'll also check and see of there is a procedure for testing the PCM.

Today I didn't experience any of the engine cut outs, but it is consistently more difficult to start. I'll check both of these potential issues and post back.

Thanks much!
 
OK, so I cleaned the MAF sensor the other day. Haven't had time to check out the PCM yet ... that will be today.

So since cleaning the MAF sensor, I haven't had a single one of the "engine acted like it dies for a second or two" occurances. RallyUSA, I think you might have nailed that one.

I did however have another one of the "pow under the hood and smoke" while starting. It did it right after I cleaned the MAF sensor. This one was not as major as the first event ... smaller pow and much less smoke. Then it started right up and ran fine. It is also still a little stubborn to start sometimes. Sometime you turn it over for a few seconds and it sounds like it doesn't want to catch. Sometimes it won't catch and you have to try starting a second time. It only seems to do this when the engine is cold.

Any more ideas on what to check next? And thanks again for the help!
 
Smoke under the hood would really worry me.
 
Yeah, I'm not crazy about it either. I guess I'm not totally panicked about it since the oil looks fine, and other than the hard starting, the car seems to run great.

Also in searching for information on similar problems, there was a guy on one of the ask the expert sites that had what sounded like the exact same issue. It had been going on once a month or so for a year ... Didn't seem to have any adverse effects, and I don't think he found a resolution for it. They were going through the whole cops, vcg, etc... That I've pretty much ruled out.

Confused:confused:
 
Disconnect your battery and then check the cables going to your starter, if they are loose or corroded (or if a mouse decided to chew through some of the conduit) that could be your problem...
 
A bit more info ... So I bought a code reader so I wouldn't have to continually disconnect the battery to clear codes. Our Autozones, etc around here say they're not allowed to clear them anymore. So the reader I got also reads manufacturer specific codes and showed a few the the Autozone guys didn't tell me.

So Aotozone gave me the 442, emissions system small leak. My reader now gave me a 316 misfire detected on startup, first 1000 revs, and a 1565 speed control command switch out of range high. Remember that I've just done new Visteon coils and new plugs across the board.

I'm hoping someone more knowledgable than I can put this information together for a more targeted suspect issue.

Many thanks folks!
 
Did you take a look at the cables going to the starter for the smoking issue?

As for the misfire detected code, first place I would check is all connectors to the coils and anything else you may have unplugged.

Code 1565 I have no idea, I'd have to look it up and I'm at work.

Did this all start immediately after the coil/plug replacement, or some time after?

Thanks
 
And I have the airbag warning light on, so clock spring for 1565 makes sense.

The hard starting and engine "acting like it died" were both present before I did all the work, and equally present after. The pow under the hood with white smoke was new, but I'd only owned the car for a week or so ... so it's hard to say if it was there before or not.

I did rather quickly check the starter wires and everything appears fine. I also checked the PCM connectors ... looked OK. I'm not finding any good info on how to check the PCM relay itself.

I think it's very suspicious that the two problem are both related to starting and the one code indicates starting (first 1000 revs). If there were problems with the coils or wires, I would think it would happen more than just starting. So what in the list of things that can cause misfires would only occur when starting? The search continues ...

I also feel like I need to get underneath again and check the hoses around the DCCV. In getting to that PITA front bolt on the right sway bar bushing, I was having to push and grind on some of those hoses in that area. Anything there ring a bell on the white smoke? There's got to be some correlation here ... then again maybe not.

Thanks again for the replies!
 
I just keep thinking of slipped cam timing when reading through this. Tensioner wear-out..
 
Did the misfire code give you a particular cylinder? Maybe one of the coils is loose? or the spark plug is mis-gapped? Just brain storming. Also, these cars drive particularly well with misfires at higher speeds. My old car, one coil went and you could barely drive, two... forget about it. My car was running rough recently, turned out I had 3 misfires and was driving fine at speeds over 25 MPH, below 25 MPH it shook like Michael J. Fox (apologies, but I had to).

Can you post a video of your start up? Might give us a better idea, if we see that and the smoke.
 
Yeah, I think the next test will be the injectors since there's a reasonable test for those.

I've thought timing chain tensioners as well. I'd ultimately like to pile another 100k highway miles on this car, so a chain and tensioner will probably be in the cards to get there. Unless the situation grows worse, I'd like to hold off on biting that bullet for a while.

I will try to use my blackberry to capture some cold starts and see if we get lucky. It has only done it twice out of maybe 25 or 30 cold starts.

More to come ...
 
I never answered jjcools question ... The 316 code is not specific to any cylinder, and it only refers to the first 1000 revs. Reading numerous "ask the expert" sites, most disregard the 316 unless it appears with a 301-308 specifying the cylinder. Others say that if it persists without a 301-308, replace the crank position sensor. Most say it is a frequent code to ignore unless you're having issues. I'd call a pow under the hood and white smoke an issue :eek:

In addition to checking injectors I'm going to look into replacing the CPS as well. Anyone done it? PITA or a happy beer consuming repair?

Cheers
 
Injectors are actually a really good idea. A leaky one, then a puddle of fuel in the intake on startup would give a ka-pow.
It's relatively easy to pull the valve covers and check out the tensionners. I'd recommend that before committing to the job. Your '02 probably has the improved tensionners and therefore doesn't need the replacement job unless they're showing unusual wear.
 
Good calls ... Injectors it is. I'm familiar with testing the resistance and the old screwdriver test for listening to the pulses. Is there a DIY test for leaky injectors, or will that require a professional testing setup?

Also, is there a known date or VIN after which improved tensioners were used? That would be great to know.

Great help folks ... Many thanks!
 
Just saw your response. My code actually said cylinder four. Changed that injector and I was goo to go.
 
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