So... Is McCain lying for cheap political reasons or are some of you guys wrong about Obama???
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Obama is a decent person: McCain
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So... Is McCain lying for cheap political reasons or are some of you guys wrong about Obama???
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fossten
Dedicated LVC Member
Yawn.
Yeah, yawn.. It doesnt serve your purposes..... I know.
Marcus
Dedicated LVC Member
He said it because even he's shocked at the crazies who are showing up to his events screaming "TERRORIST!" and "KILL HIM!" when he's talking about Obama. I saw the look on his face at one of the events where someone yelled "TERRORIST!" and he looked genuinely taken aback. I also saw the video from today when said to calm down, and I have no doubt that he was serious. Good for him. Maybe he still has some trace of decency left in him. These wackos are an embarrassment for him and the Republican party. It remains to be seen whether his running mate will follow suit and knock off the bullsh!t. They're just hurting themselves with this crap. The kind of people who buy into this garbage, like Bryan, made up their minds long ago. And by the way, I'm talking about people who actually believe Obama is a radical, America-hating Muslim bent on the destruction of America, NOT those people who simply question his judgment or character. The latter is at least a legitimate concern (albeit one I don't share). If you fall into the former category, then yes, I'm calling you a dangerous, un-American wack-job.
turborich
Dedicated LVC Member
When will you guys on the left wake up? Look at Obama! He has ties to terrorist!!! His father was a radical, His church hates white people & America! Who knows if this guy is even a citizen? He tells you that your children better learn to speak spanish!
The far left media has the American people fooled. It's a shame that the majority of the American people are like a heard of cattle & do whatever they are told! Nobody on the left even likes Obama, it's all about the democrats sticking together, They suck!!!
McCain is not the best choice in the world but at least he loves his country & will salute the American flag! Whatever McCain is, it's 10 times better then that anti American Obama!
The far left media has the American people fooled. It's a shame that the majority of the American people are like a heard of cattle & do whatever they are told! Nobody on the left even likes Obama, it's all about the democrats sticking together, They suck!!!
McCain is not the best choice in the world but at least he loves his country & will salute the American flag! Whatever McCain is, it's 10 times better then that anti American Obama!
Marcus
Dedicated LVC Member
Then I take it you fall into the latter category?
MonsterMark
Dedicated LVC Member
Yes,
He is trying to be nice but inside he thinks likes the rest of us, that Obama is a P.O.S. Sorry, that's the way it is.
Can you say, False choice?
There are many other possibilities then the two you mentioned. That is a leading question.
MonsterMark
Dedicated LVC Member
and the ship you rode in on Pal. Embarrassment my ass. The people at this Town Hall meeting are America. How dare you call us an embarrassment. These are the very people that make this Country work and make this Country great.
I work with and I put my full support behind the Republican Party of Wisconsin, in particular, the Waukesha, Wisconsin group. We are the ones that turned out the fantastic crowd in Waukesha yesterday and are the ones that kicked McCain in the ass.
If McCain wins this election it will be because of the efforts of people like myself and the many others like me that refuse to sell this Country down the rat hole of liberalism.
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So your saying we cant trust what McCain says, thus his integrity is in question now.
Got it. Thanks..
And Palin abuses her authority... Right.. Got that too.
MonsterMark
Dedicated LVC Member
And to you Obamas' is not. Got it!
McCain was just trying to be nice. Period. Now let's see what he does at the next debate. That will tell us all we need to know.
Btw, looks like Rezko is about to take down Giannoulias and Obama. What do you think about that?
Im stll waiting for all the things you said before were gonna bring down Obama to happen.
MonsterMark
Dedicated LVC Member
There is so much crap piled up on Obama's doorstep, nobody can get the door open.
MERIJONS97LSC
Dedicated LVC Member
You guys on the left sure love Obama, Just wait until that guy gets into office! You thought that Bush was badI don't think so.
So you think Obama's going to win too? I'm going to vote for "THAT ONE!''
...is there something dishonest about saying a guy who is fundamentally wrong and embraces a reckless and failed philosophy is a decent guy?
Joey is constantly wrong, but I'm sure he's a decent guy...
Joey is constantly wrong, but I'm sure he's a decent guy...
Marcus
Dedicated LVC Member
I preferred the original version of this sentence better. Why'd you edit it?
turborich
Dedicated LVC Member
I really hope McCain is our new president, but it looks as if the American people have been brainwashed to think Obama is some rock star or something.
It is sad to see how a large group of people can be manipulated like that by the liberal media.
Can't you see that McCain is a good man who loves his country? Obama wont even salute the flag! He just has a lot more experience & it shows! Obama dances around the questions.
For all you lefties,
Does Obama belong to a so called church that hates whites & america?
Does Obama have terrorist ties?
Does Oboma have proof of his US citizenship?
Does Obama want to help or hurt this country?
Can you answer any of these honestly?
It is sad to see how a large group of people can be manipulated like that by the liberal media.
Can't you see that McCain is a good man who loves his country? Obama wont even salute the flag! He just has a lot more experience & it shows! Obama dances around the questions.
For all you lefties,
Does Obama belong to a so called church that hates whites & america?
Does Obama have terrorist ties?
Does Oboma have proof of his US citizenship?
Does Obama want to help or hurt this country?
Can you answer any of these honestly?
I watched a video last night of a Palin rally where someone in the crowd cried out 'Lynch him'.
No doubt a good American though.
McCain has been appalled at the recent events, but, as Obama certainly knows, there isn't much you can do about wacked out supporters.
I am pretty sure Obama wasn't too happy with Farrakan's (church) speech, but, he can't do anything about it.
And the Ayers (terrorist) thing...
I have close ties to Rennie Davis (one of the Chicago 7). I did his wedding invitation, I went to his wedding, I worked on promoting his Greystone project, I took money from him for that. I went to many dinners, meetings, lunches, etc. with him, and sometimes other Chicago 8/7 members.
So, therefore, I believe in everything the Chicago 7 stood for?
Guilt by association is a pretty leaky boat. I am sure you have taken money from, had business dealings with, belong to the same church, or went to dinner a few times with people who may be radical in their beliefs - left or right. That doesn't mean you agree with their philosophies.
But, I will say this - I think Ayers, Hoffman, Davis and the others were radicals in a time when America needed radicals. Revolution and change is what this country is built on, and if we don't continue to embrace revolution and change, we are destined to fall like Rome. I believe Ayers when he says he has no regrets. Good for him. He took a stand 40 years ago, and believes to this day that he had done the right thing. He doesn't cop out and say 'oh, I was young, I didn't know better'. He made a difference in the fabric of America.
So, Bryan, start your revolution when the election is over - maybe in 2050 a presidential candidate will need to defend their business or civic relationship with you because in 2010 you did something you believed in and changed America.
No doubt a good American though.
McCain has been appalled at the recent events, but, as Obama certainly knows, there isn't much you can do about wacked out supporters.
I am pretty sure Obama wasn't too happy with Farrakan's (church) speech, but, he can't do anything about it.
And the Ayers (terrorist) thing...
I have close ties to Rennie Davis (one of the Chicago 7). I did his wedding invitation, I went to his wedding, I worked on promoting his Greystone project, I took money from him for that. I went to many dinners, meetings, lunches, etc. with him, and sometimes other Chicago 8/7 members.
So, therefore, I believe in everything the Chicago 7 stood for?
Guilt by association is a pretty leaky boat. I am sure you have taken money from, had business dealings with, belong to the same church, or went to dinner a few times with people who may be radical in their beliefs - left or right. That doesn't mean you agree with their philosophies.
But, I will say this - I think Ayers, Hoffman, Davis and the others were radicals in a time when America needed radicals. Revolution and change is what this country is built on, and if we don't continue to embrace revolution and change, we are destined to fall like Rome. I believe Ayers when he says he has no regrets. Good for him. He took a stand 40 years ago, and believes to this day that he had done the right thing. He doesn't cop out and say 'oh, I was young, I didn't know better'. He made a difference in the fabric of America.
So, Bryan, start your revolution when the election is over - maybe in 2050 a presidential candidate will need to defend their business or civic relationship with you because in 2010 you did something you believed in and changed America.
It can say something about your judgement, depending on how close the tie is and what relation it is, especially if you have political aspirations.
Ayers throwing a fundraiser for Obama is a pretty close political tie, and it does strongly suggest that they are on the same page politically. Besides, weather or not the tie means much, in the climate that is american politics, it should be pretty clear that any potential ties to Ayers would seem radical. Obama didn't see a need to distance himself from Ayers until after he was already running for the presidency. That does say something about his judgement and how close he an Ayers are politically.
That potential guilt makes Obama more of a risk as a President. It is enough to disqualify him in a reasonable person's mind from being President.
Maybe we can tie McCain's willingness to stay in Iraq as long as it takes to one of his leading fundraisers, and co-finance chairman in Florida Harry Sargeant.
Through a company called International Oil Trading Co., or IOTC, Sargeant and a partner have a lucrative contract worth hundreds of millions of dollars per year to supply American military forces in Iraq with fuel. It is suspected that the firm has gouged the American people for multiple millions (Fundraiser Sargeant's home 3/22/08)
Could it be that McCain is on the same page politically as Clayton Williams? Let's see, McCain also kept the money raised by Williams from a cancelled fundraiser (noticed, they cancelled the fundraiser, but McCain kept the funds that were sent in from people to attend the fundraiser). Williams is somewhat well known for uttering that wonderful line in the 1990 campaign for Texas governor - comparing rape to the weather...“As long as it’s inevitable, you might as well lie back and enjoy it.” (Fundraiser to have been held 6/16/08)
So, are McCain's ties to terrorist organization backers enough to disqualify him in a reasonable person's mind from being President?
Let's look at Carl H Lindner - another one of McCain's fundraisers whose was the CEO, and on the board of Chiquita Brands from 84 to 02. Chiquita has admitted to illegally funding the United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia, a terrorist paramilitary organization. Chiquita's payments to the AUC began in 1997 and lasted seven years. The group has been designated a Foreign Terrorist Organization by the U.S. State Department. For the last 5 years that Lindner was CEO of Chiquita, the company sent money to the the United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia. (Fundraiser event - Linder's home 6/26/08)
So, let's see, so far we have McCain tied to war profiteers, women haters, and terrorist backers fundraisers. All this year - since March in fact. I believe the Ayers fundraiser was in 1995...
Of course he isn't any of those things himself - I know that - but, if you just go by 'guilt by association' that is what you got...
A few problems there...
McCain has been consistent when it comes to Iraq and his position has always been to stay there until we accomplish our goals. He was saying that well before he was running for president. So to try and say that his position on Iraq is somehow influenced by his fundraisers is based in cherry-picking your information and misrepresenting it, because it totally ignores the chronology of events.
You are trying to compare someone who's "sin" was making an off-color joke in a campaign to a terrorist who tried to blow up government buildings?! That is a stretch...
First off, how is Lindner's funding illegal? What law (or laws) are being broken? When was that group designated a terrorist organization by the State Department? Do they have a beef with the U.S.? Did Lindner have any part in the actually planning and implimentation of their "terrorist" activities? Those last to questions need to be proven to be a "yes" for this point to be anything more then a false analogy.
That is the problem... the left is creating a strawman argument by mischaracterizing at a claim of "guilt by association".
To make it clear, guilt by association is a type of association fallacy. Here is the definition of an association fallacy:
An association fallacy is an inductive formal fallacy of the type hasty generalization or red herring which asserts that qualities of one thing are inherently qualities of another, merely by an irrelevant association.
All the things you have pointed out about McCain are irrelevant associations in reference to his politics.
However, Obama's political alliances are very telling when it comes to his politics and his judgement about those politics. Also, who he keeps as friends is very telling about his judgement and influences. "You know someone by the company they keep".
As Thomas Sowell puts it...
Associations are very different from alliances. Allies are not just people who happen to be where you are or who happen to be doing the same things you do. You choose allies deliberately for a reason. The kind of allies you choose says something about you.
Jeremiah Wright, Father Michael Pfleger, William Ayers and Antoin Rezko are not just people who happened to be at the same place at the same time as Barack Obama. They are people with whom he chose to ally himself for years, and with some of whom some serious money changed hands.
Some gave political support, and some gave financial support, to Obama's election campaigns, and Obama in turn contributed either his own money or the taxpayers' money to some of them. That is a familiar political alliance-- but an alliance is not just an "association" from being at the same place at the same time.
Obama could have allied himself with all sorts of other people. But, time and again, he allied himself with people who openly expressed their hatred of America. No amount of flags on his campaign platforms this election year can change that.
Jeremiah Wright, Father Michael Pfleger, William Ayers and Antoin Rezko are not just people who happened to be at the same place at the same time as Barack Obama. They are people with whom he chose to ally himself for years, and with some of whom some serious money changed hands.
Some gave political support, and some gave financial support, to Obama's election campaigns, and Obama in turn contributed either his own money or the taxpayers' money to some of them. That is a familiar political alliance-- but an alliance is not just an "association" from being at the same place at the same time.
Obama could have allied himself with all sorts of other people. But, time and again, he allied himself with people who openly expressed their hatred of America. No amount of flags on his campaign platforms this election year can change that.
As Stanley Kurtz points out, "documents in the CAC archives make clear that Mr. Ayers and Mr. Obama were partners in the CAC." He also points out...
...the issue here isn't guilt by association; it's guilt by participation. As CAC chairman, Mr. Obama was lending moral and financial support to Mr. Ayers and his radical circle. That is a story even if Mr. Ayers had never planted a single bomb 40 years ago.
Conservatives are not arguing mere guilt by association... they are arguing that Obama actively allied himself politically with people (like Ayers) who consistently are anti-American, and supported that agenda, and now Obama is doing everything in his power to downplay that; including intimidation tactics to stifle any info coming out. Any claim that the argument is merely "guilt by association" is a strawman mischaracterization that only serves as a red herring. It is an extremely intellecually dishonest tactic. I would hope you can do better.
It is interesting to note that there is some speculation that Ayer's wrote parts of Obama's autobiography which is backed up by a computer comparison of the autobiography and Ayer's writings.:shifty:
fossten
Dedicated LVC Member
The people shouting "kill him" and "lynch him" are likely Democrat plants. Right wingers don't do that sort of crap. I despise Obama and his Marxism with every core of my being, but I've never said anything like that. You lefties are such idiots.
It's the same thing that happened to Hillary with the "laundry shirts" comment.
Plant.
It's the same thing that happened to Hillary with the "laundry shirts" comment.
Plant.
Oh please. What BS. I dont like Bush but have never shouted at a rally either. And you call lefties idiots? Please. You better get over yourself and realize the righties are just as capable of being nuts.
First of all, no one is reporting that "lynch him" was said. The rumor is that someone yelled "kill him." However, other than the reporter, no no heard this. And that includes the Secret Service agents who catch everything.
However, people have called "treason" "terrorist" and "traitor."
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