Remember when Obama said '57' states

MonsterMark

MonsterMark

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I'm pretty sure that was a Freudian slip...

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Your fear mongering is bordering on insanity now, Monster.

Don't fear though, Bush sent someone to talk/negotiate with Iran, saw it last week on Israeli Fox news. Odd that, no? Bush negotiating with the "evil doers".
 
Bryan, your trumpeting of the muslim angle is nuts. There isn't any relevant evidence that he's currently a muslim. He may have been exposed to it in the past to some level, but he's clearly a Marxist through and through, based on his votes, his words, and his positions. I haven't heard him say anything that tells me he's a muslim.

You're losing it dude.
 
I will point out that I don't think being a Marxist and being a Muslim are two mutually exclusive things, one can be both ( as far as I know).

I personally am not convinced that Obama is a Muslim (outside of by birth), but that doesn't mean he doesn't have compromising Muslims ties, or at the very least is effectively friendly enough to radical Islam that his loyalties and priorities as President might be compromised.

Regardless, I would not trust him to put American interests ahead of all other interests (weather they be European,Muslim or ideological), or show wisdom or good judgment in international affairs.
 
shagdrum said:
I will point out that I don't think being a Marxist and being a Muslim are two mutually exclusive things, one can be both ( as far as I know).
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You'd be incorrect about that. But it doesn't really matter, as there is clear, concrete evidence of his Marxism, while there isn't much of anything that proves he's a muslim. Bryan's joining the ranks of the kooks by pursuing this angle.
 
fossten said:
while there isn't much of anything that proves he's a muslim.
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Drip, drip, drip and pretty soon you have a bucket full of water.

Obama = the crypto-Shiite Muslim?

If Obama converted to Christianity as he claims 20 years ago, did he take a Christian name as is the custom of Christians?

Children take the religion of the father according to Islamic law. Barack’s father and step-father were Muslim.
Therefore, Barack is Muslim. 1+ 1 = 2.

So if Barack was born to a Muslim father, it would be a capital offense to leave Islam. Unless Barack is practicing Taqiyya, in which ‘ol Barack could pretend to be outwardly Christian but maintain his Muslim identity.

Nikah Mutah is a Shia law. Seems this is how the Barack’s parents were married.

Why did Obama meet with Hassan Qazwini who happens to be the Shiite leader in America? Obama walked out of the meeting in 2008 with a copy of AMERICAN CRESCENT proudly tucked under his arm. Strange indeed for a practicing Christian.

Is it not curious to you that Obama wants to go after the Taliban in Afganistan who happen to be Sunni? He would even use nukes in Pakistan?

And why the fake birth certificate? At this point, no one in the United States has produced a similar one from the State of Hawaii using similar borders. What is he hiding? His dual-citizenship with Indonesia? Maybe that explains why he tried to pass that bill recently regarding McCain’s citizenship.

Hey, keep your head buried. Thats’s OK by me. In the meantime, I’ll keep digging if you don’t mind.
 
MonsterMark said:
Hey, keep your head buried. Thats’s OK by me. In the meantime, I’ll keep digging if you don’t mind.
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Funny how things turn around. I recall saying similar things to you about many of Ron Paul's positions.

But you keep digging. It's a waste of time, though, because by the time you come up with something the man will have been elected.

What, you don't think his brazen marxism is strong enough to attack? How naive.
 
fossten said:
You'd be incorrect about that. But it doesn't really matter, as there is clear, concrete evidence of his Marxism, while there isn't much of anything that proves he's a muslim.
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Why do you say that? Why can you not be a Marxist and a Muslim?
 
Bryan, did it ever occur to you that when you throw everything out there including the "kitchen sink", and the vast majority turns out to be bogus, you lose all credibility, even among your own compatriots? The fact that Fossten now thinks you're off your rocker ought to tell you something. And what happens if you manage to dig up something that's actually TRUE? Who will listen to you then? You're shooting yourself in the foot with these crazy conspiracy theories.

Instead of wasting time on that, why aren't you talking about problems you have with his policies, which are REAL issues people can debate? Are the arguments against his policies really that weak?
 
fossten said:
But you keep digging. It's a waste of time, though, because by the time you come up with something the man will have been elected.
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So I should stop looking into his past?
A guy who has no past?
Where are his transcripts from school?
How did he become President of the Harvard Law Review? Where are his writings that got him that position?
Where are his records from his time in the Illinois Senate?

You guys can sit there with your heads in the sand. That is your choice. When I got involved with Kerry 4 years ago, I had problems with his policy and his past. But we knew what they were. There was a trail.

There is no trail with Obama. Lots of problems though. The guy scares the crap out of me. I don't give a sh!t if 99% of the people think Obama is the next messiah. I don't. There is a problem there. His policy problems are obvious to all, even the Obama supporters. The media did not vet this guy. I will. I will make sure he fails in his bid to become MY president.

Obama is a Marxist/Muslim. AN unpatriotic racist muslim sympathiser who will sell this country down the road and raise my taxes more than 30%.

I'm gonna keep bashing. You guys are free to use the ignore button at your own peril.
 
TommyB said:
Instead of wasting time on that, why aren't you talking about problems you have with his policies, which are REAL issues people can debate? Are the arguments against his policies really that weak?
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Why aren't you guys posting about his lies and horrible policy proposals?

How you can look in the mirror and be a Obama supporter is so offensive to me it shakes me to the core. Hillary is 10 times the candidate than Barack.

If she wins the nomination (and I hope she does), I'll accept her victory over McCain and wait another 4 years to get back in power.
 
MonsterMark said:
How you can look in the mirror and be a Obama supporter is so offensive to me it shakes me to the core. Hillary is 10 times the candidate than Barack.
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I'm not an Obama supporter, but I see no reason to let these asinine conspiracy theories go unanswered. Same goes for the 9/11 conspiracy lunacy. In any case, I have my own reasons for not voting for him, and none of them are because I think he's a secret Muslim.
 
MonsterMark said:
Why aren't you guys posting about his lies and horrible policy proposals?
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Well, part of that is because they are hard to find, at least compared to most candidates. As you pointed out, Obama doesn't have much of a record to look at. In addition, the MSM isn't too motivated to look into his record and find any skeleton's in the closet.

That is why I don't have much of a problem with people like Bryan looking into Obama's past. I am not saying I am convinced by much of it (that burden of proof is on them in this debate), but it is a process that needs to be done, especially when you have a candidate who doesn't seem to have much of a record. And there are often enough facts that come out that Obama should be asked about. He should be asked to explain his ties to Islam, and to explain some of the questions raised by his birth certificate if he is going to be the President.

Instead, his tactic (and the tactic of his supporters) seems to be to obfuscate, attack and, sometimes, subtly intimidate the people bringing the issues up, effectively avoiding (for the most part) having to actually answer any of these relevant questions.

Look at the Jeremiah Wright thing. Obama had been in that church for 20 years. If the MSM had been doing their job (and been in touch with the general population of America), that stuff would've been in the news, fully explored and explained and dealt with by the end of 2007. Instead the MSM had to be drug, kicking and screaming into covering that news story after alternative media brought it to light and harped on it enough to made it a part of the news cycle.

Even then, how did Obama react? He worked to change his story multiple times, downplay the concern and change the focus of the debate to those pointing these inconvenient facts about him out. It wasn't until he was politically forced to that he attacked the issue head on, and then used his smooth talking to further cloud the issue and change the focus. Frankly, the way he reacts to these things and attempts to counter them is more telling to me then anything else. If he has to spin and try to avoid any direct answer or rebuttal, that is rather telling, in my book.

the MSM is only really serving as a watchdog on republican's in general and McCain in particular, in this election. They are not workin too hard to find much out about Obama's political background and history.

That necessitates people like Bryan and others having to research this for themselves. The result is not as professional (no offense Bryan), and a lot of the process is slower then normal and exposed for all to see; these aren't trained journalists (by and large) doing the research and reporting here.

You don't elect someone with hardly anything known about them. That alone qualifies McCain over Obama, in my book.

Promising rhetoric is worthless without a proven and demonstrated ability to back that up with results; necessitating leadership and wisdom (among other factors). Style over substance. All Obama has going for him is rhetoric, arrogance. No other personal traits that demonstrate he is qualified to be president, and the arrogance will (and has) come back to bit him in the ass.

IMO, that arrogance in DNC candidates (more then anything else) is how they are usually able to "snatch defeat from the jaws of victory", as they say...

Sorry. Being long winded against... :D
 
TommyB said:
I'm not an Obama supporter, but I see no reason to let these asinine conspiracy theories go unanswered. Same goes for the 9/11 conspiracy lunacy. In any case, I have my own reasons for not voting for him, and none of them are because I think he's a secret Muslim.
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So, I am curious, who are you supporting? McCain, or are you going third party?
 
shagdrum said:
So, I am curious, who are you supporting? McCain, or are you going third party?
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Illinois isn't exactly a swing state, so I figure I have the luxury to vote on purely idealogical grounds. I see the erosion (or eventually elimination) of civil liberties as the number one threat this nation faces---FAR above the threat of terrorism---so Bob Barr is my choice. Not to say I'm fully on board with every Libertarian thought, but both McCain and Obama are too chicken-sh!t to even suggest rolling back some of the abuses and the subversion of the Constitution the Bush regime has instituted.
 
Holy :q:q:q:q! You and I are in the same boat!

Kansas isn't much of a swing state, either (even if Obama pick's Sebelious as his running mate). So I am thinkin of voting third party. And Libertarian Bob Barr is who I am considering voting for.

Not for the same reasons as you; civil liberties (I think we have had that discussion), but more along the lines Joey conveyed; federal spending and taxes.

Kansas is a lock for McCain, so I don't have to hold my nose and vote for him!
 
OMG - lightning does strike thrice! I'm considering Barr also.

Jeez, it's true what they say - politics does make for strange bedfellows.

Cheers, Shag and Tommy!

Edit: To your question about marxism and islam, Shag, I'm formulating a response.
 
Marxism includes atheistic, state control of economy, a belief in evolution not only biologically but with regard to history, economics, and politics. Its view of religion is to quash all forms in favor of a godless nation.

Obama isn't publicly atheistic, but in every application out of his mouth, he may as well be. Just look at his stance on abortion including partial birth. Judge the deeds and the words together.

Islam is theistic, involving a union of religion and state, a mix of socialism and capitalism, and subjugation of women by conviction. Its view of religion is to quash all forms except Islam.

Where they converge, like all worldviews apart from Biblical Christianity, is a deliberate aim for achieving one-world government by coercion. Although that vision looks different from each point of view.
 
fossten said:
OMG - lightning does strike thrice! I'm considering Barr also.

Jeez, it's true what they say - politics does make for strange bedfellows.

Cheers, Shag and Tommy!

Edit: To your question about marxism and islam, Shag, I'm formulating a response.
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Great minds think alike, eh?

Interestingly enough, I think we are also all Galactica fans...
 
fossten said:
Marxism includes atheistic, state control of economy, a belief in evolution not only biologically but with regard to history, economics, and politics. Its view of religion is to quash all forms in favor of a godless nation.

Obama isn't publicly atheistic, but in every application out of his mouth, he may as well be. Just look at his stance on abortion including partial birth. Judge the deeds and the words together.

Islam is theistic, involving a union of religion and state, a mix of socialism and capitalism, and subjugation of women by conviction. Its view of religion is to quash all forms except Islam.

Where they converge, like all worldviews apart from Biblical Christianity, is a deliberate aim for achieving one-world government by coercion. Although that vision looks different from each point of view.
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Ok, I understand that. socialism is atheistic while Islam is (obviously) theistic. Makes sense.

so, in a strict sense, you can't be Muslim and socialist, but what about in a very broad sense? You see people buy into views that would seem contradictory. Christians who believe in evolution, which is effectively an atheistic view (BTW, I really don't wanna re-open the whole evolution vs. ID can of worms in this thread :) ), etc..

You even see Obama who is in many ways effectively a socialist (atheistic), but claims to be a Christian (theistic). How do you explain that?

BTW: I know I am effectively equivocating the terms "Muslim" and "socialism" here, but I figured that enough people do have these very broad working definitions of those terms that it was relevant to a discussion of weather someone can be both Muslim and socialist. :)

Basically, can someone be effectively a Muslim and a socialist, depending how they define or redefine those terms? I understand that technically, one cannot be both a Muslim and a socialist due philosophical and theological views and definitions.

If you truly understand what socialism and Islam is, then you cannot, with any degree of intellectual integrity, subscribe to both views. But I don't think of Obama as necessarily informed enough to be able to understand and appriciate that distinction, or having enough intellectual integrity to accept that distinction. I have seen lot of style from him and next to no substance...
 
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