you have an automatic, correct?
coils are the first thing you should be looking into... if you have more that 60k on them with this symptom presenting itself, one or more are probably bad and need to be replaced.
Intermittent Buck/Jerk While Driving
- Thread starter md1twal3
- Start date
you have an automatic, correct?
coils are the first thing you should be looking into... if you have more that 60k on them with this symptom presenting itself, one or more are probably bad and need to be replaced.
how many miles/what yr/what engine?
some yrs have extended warranty on coils and lincoln will replace them for free.
give the maf a shot of CRC maf cleaner, clean up the throttle body with teflon safe CRC brand, new air filter if you need it, prolly need new coils/plugs, new fuel filter, check tranny fluid, run a couple bottles of lucas thru the gas the first two fillups, and disconenct the battery and run a drive cycle on it and youll be in business my friend
RigsLS
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Are we still entertaining the constant BS of re-calibrating the transmissions?
Thanks Joegr and Jrand. Sounds like I need to run the cycle and see what I come up with. Otherwise, do I need to go to the dealer to have my coils load tested to pin down the culprit (if that is what it ends up being)? I hate to throw 6 more coils at it when I just got through replacing them all in the past few months.
Or, maybe I just try the extra TPS that I have and see what happens?
Or, maybe I just try the extra TPS that I have and see what happens?
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
Well, my opinion is that the drive cycle isn't going to get you anywhere.
It's unlikely you will be able to talk a dealer into stress testing your coils. The V6 isn't covered by the Ford factory extension, so they know you will be paying. The stress testing will actually cost you more than just replacing the coils again, so I doubt you really want to do this either.
If you go the dealer route, you will just have to ask them to diagnose your problem, and not try to direct them to what you think it might be. You will be paying at least the $100 diagnostic fee.
There should be no harm to trying the TPS since you already have one.
if you have a manual tranny, i wouldnt put a ton of stock in hoping that clearing your kam and runnig a drive cycle is going to help. for the people with automatics it matters a lot more due to so many sensors factoring into a shift timing. but it wouldnt hurt to try it since its free.
what brand are your coils? when you did them did you change plugs? are they gapped correctly? are you running 91+ octane?
clean maf, clean throttle body, try your tps sensor... i would try everything cheap and easy before i took it to lincoln. Ive never received a diagnosis recommending less than $1000 worth of work from them, but theyre also just about the only place i would trust when it comes fixing a problem i cant fix myself due to the fact there are so few of these cars on the road
der3wuste3fuchs
Active LVC Member
I have a 2002 Base model with 75K. Has the V6. I've never really messed with the MAF or throttle body before so I'll have to look that up. I plan on changing the coils/plugs, fuel filter, tranny fluid and filter, and run seafoam or lucas through it.
Thanks for the tips.
I'm following you now. The PCM learns and adjusts fuel, timing, shift points, etc. to driver's driving habits. It's sort of a hard boot of the PCM, clearing the memory and allowing the PCM to relearn, this time free of any garbage that it may have gotten from a sensor or something along the way. However, my issue isn't trans related so odds of that helping are minimal. Am I tracking?
I have cleaned and replaced maf & tb and replaced air filter and fuel filter. Replaced plugs with OEM. I don't recall the specific coil brand but they aren't the "store brand" at the parts store. I specifically bought the high end to avoid quick failure issues. Borg Warner comes to mind.
I have not noticed it once since shortly after I initially posted. Consequently, our snow showers also ended shortly after I posted. So, as someone else posted earlier, it only happens when it snows. (maybe rain, but we aren't getting much rain this time of year.)
Moisture makes me think coil but, man...I with there was a better way of pinning it down rather than getting 6 new coils and hoping for the best. I get that it's cheaper than taking to a dealer, but it's still hard earned money.
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
I feel for you there, I really do. With a good scan tool, you can trigger the KOER self test. At the end of that you can get the misfire counts per cylinder. Sometimes (not always) you can see which coil(s) it is from that.
Do you have a stock intake?
I'm following you now. The PCM learns and adjusts fuel, timing, shift points, etc. to driver's driving habits. It's sort of a hard boot of the PCM, clearing the memory and allowing the PCM to relearn, this time free of any garbage that it may have gotten from a sensor or something along the way. However, my issue isn't trans related so odds of that helping are minimal. Am I tracking?
I have cleaned and replaced maf & tb and replaced air filter and fuel filter. Replaced plugs with OEM. I don't recall the specific coil brand but they aren't the "store brand" at the parts store. I specifically bought the high end to avoid quick failure issues. Borg Warner comes to mind.
I have not noticed it once since shortly after I initially posted. Consequently, our snow showers also ended shortly after I posted. So, as someone else posted earlier, it only happens when it snows. (maybe rain, but we aren't getting much rain this time of year.)
Moisture makes me think coil but, man...I with there was a better way of pinning it down rather than getting 6 new coils and hoping for the best. I get that it's cheaper than taking to a dealer, but it's still hard earned money.
you are tracking, but an intermittent buck/jerk would/could be caused by sensors that are slightly out of spec. i would lean towards coil issues though personally. how new are the coils? and have you recalibrated anything since you did all of these cleaning/replacements? if not, youre running new/clean parts with the specs that go with the old/dirty parts... you do the math. just clear the old data and start fresh. if not you will have buckin'/jerkin'/lurchin' symptoms
A bit of snow today, and I mean a light shower of less than an inch and it bucks again. Did it 3-4 times after first start up and seems to be fine now, even though it is still damp out and the car has warmed up an cooled off a few times now. Strange...
The coils were replaced in banks when I did the VC gaskets on each side. One side is around a 9 months or so and the other around 6 months. Other than clearing codes, I have not had the PCM refreshed. But, I would figure in this amount of time, the PCM would have migrated to a revised driver memory based on what is getting back with the new components.
I'll have to see if my scanner is able to run the KEOR test. I just got it and I haven't been able to read up in it's abilities. Yes. intake is stock.
The coils were replaced in banks when I did the VC gaskets on each side. One side is around a 9 months or so and the other around 6 months. Other than clearing codes, I have not had the PCM refreshed. But, I would figure in this amount of time, the PCM would have migrated to a revised driver memory based on what is getting back with the new components.
I'll have to see if my scanner is able to run the KEOR test. I just got it and I haven't been able to read up in it's abilities. Yes. intake is stock.
BigWayner95
Well-Known LVC Member
I can say this... I'm new to the forum. I've got an 05 v8. I get this surge/bucking only at highway speeds and it set on cruise. Otherwise its fine. What is this recab the tranny I see? I just bought the car. Don't know to much about them but I'm learning every day. My car has 119k.. so I'm sure I'll be doing a lot this summer... so go easy on me Lol. Still learnin...
Out of nowhere, the issue has returned. Actually stalled the car at highway speed this time and would crank and not fire. Temp gauge bounced up and down in a heartbeat like rhythm. Car eventually restarted. Idle came way up, stablized and problem gone. No CEL and no codes. WTH?
Md1twal3: did the the throttle position sensor fix your bucking problem? I've been chasing a similar problem, though my symptoms are more like 2000Sport's - clearly worse when the air is cold. (v6 manual also). I've done coils, plugs, pcv, cleaned the idle air control, and wiped out (no chemicals) the throttle body. Car runs better, but problem still here, even in summer. Bought a bluetooth scan tool and downloaded Torque to my tablet, but it's not showing anything unusual and not catching the failure.
Gus_Mahn
Well-Known LVC Member
It sounds like classic ignition misfire issue. Most of the time you can fix it by changing the spark plugs and coil boots (about $6/ea).
My problem has gone from intermittent to constant. Cranks but will not fire. Thought I had it with a fuel pump but it ran a few days and then stalled hard again. I've tested the fuel pump circuit (feed and PCM ground) and verified the pump runs when jumped with alternate power. In troubleshooting, I did finally notice the PATS light blinking rapidly when the car cranks over. After the fast blinks, it blinks 16. Everything I've searched here says PCM relay, PCM or PATS module on the back of the cluster.
I will inspect the relay and socket today but am wondering what steps I can take to further troubleshoot to the exact cause of issue? Given it has been intermittent and will happen with either key, I don't think I have a key issue. It also has a new battery in it and holds a full charge. During my troubleshooting, there were a few times where I heard the fuel pump cycle and it would start and die right away.
Also - I connect my scan tool to the ALDL and recieve a failed connection error. It's a decent aftermarket scanner and has worked many times on the LS in the past. However, the CEL lights with key on, etc.
Anybody?
Telco
Dedicated LVC Member
PATS is Passive Anti Theft System, and they are a pain. This is why my daughter's 2002 Malibu has been down for the last couple of weeks, requiring that I allow her to drive my LS. On the Malibu there is a procedure where you install a 2200 ohm resistor that bypasses the ignition key mess, then reprogram the system to recognize the resistor which is supposed to be a permanent fix. Or, it can be disabled in the computer (the avenue I took). Unfortunately it looks like her BCM died as well, since right after I got her car on the road the BCM controlled systems all died.
I did a quick check on the net and found that the LS PATS is integrated into the instrument cluster, and that the LS PATS has an issue with the receiving antenna failing which would be likely since both keys stopped working at the same time. You might look to see if there is a bypass method similar to the Malibu resistor thing. Otherwise it looks like there is a dealer visit in your future. Seems like the PATS is nothing more than a way to keep the owner from driving his car, not a means to keep it from being stolen. I can't comment on whether it can be deprogrammed.
I did a quick check on the net and found that the LS PATS is integrated into the instrument cluster, and that the LS PATS has an issue with the receiving antenna failing which would be likely since both keys stopped working at the same time. You might look to see if there is a bypass method similar to the Malibu resistor thing. Otherwise it looks like there is a dealer visit in your future. Seems like the PATS is nothing more than a way to keep the owner from driving his car, not a means to keep it from being stolen. I can't comment on whether it can be deprogrammed.
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
Good advice, generally, but PATS 16 isn't going to be the antenna.
Sometimes it is the cluster, sometimes the wiring, more often the PCM relay, but sometimes it's the PCM.
With your symptoms, I'd bet it is either the PCM or the PCM relay. If you have a V6, the PCM becomes more likely.
Sometimes it is the cluster, sometimes the wiring, more often the PCM relay, but sometimes it's the PCM.
With your symptoms, I'd bet it is either the PCM or the PCM relay. If you have a V6, the PCM becomes more likely.
It is indeed a V6 and because I cannot get a connection to the PCM via my scanner, I'm also thinking it's the PCM or PCM Relay.
Any sure fire way of testing to find out for sure? I can swap a relay but if I'm going to buy a new or used PCM and have my car reprogrammed, I'd like to be as certain as possible before spending the jing!
Finally got a chance to dig into this issue a bit more. I had power at the relay, pin 30. Jumping from 30 to 31, I had power, indicating the ground circuit from terminal 31 is good. I had "pulsing" power at terminal 15 from the diode, what I'd expect. I have power at pin 32 on connecter C behind the PCM, indicating power is getting to the PCM.
Seems I've covered the relay circuit, pointing to PCM. Also, with the PCM out and disconnected, with key on, the CEL light illuminated. Is that normal? Used to be if the PCM was out, the CEL would not light.
Seems I've covered the relay circuit, pointing to PCM. Also, with the PCM out and disconnected, with key on, the CEL light illuminated. Is that normal? Used to be if the PCM was out, the CEL would not light.
A few questions regarding PCM Replacement - Mine is XW4F-12A650-UG.
1. If I replace it with the same number from the same year, engine,trans, will it be necessary to have it reprogrammed?
2. Are there any other P/Ns that cross that I could use?
Thanks!
1. If I replace it with the same number from the same year, engine,trans, will it be necessary to have it reprogrammed?
2. Are there any other P/Ns that cross that I could use?
Thanks!