you know how every one is complaining about how there isn't a new RWD lincoln...

[thaywood]

oh yeah, did I mention that the chrome 20" are some kind of weird permanently mounted F#%$ING HUB CAP!!!! (the dealer called this a feature, because it makes than less likely to get stolen, i sh!t you not, those were the exact words)

Ford's been doing that for YEARS! My sister's '05 Exploder Eddie Bauer has fake plastic chrome wheel covers. I just saw a brand new 2012 F-150 with fake plastic chrome wheel covers. I know a lady with a 2007 Lincoln MKX that has 20" fake chrome plastic wheel covers. Just about any Ford or Lincoln you see these days with chrome wheels is actually wearing fake chrome plastic wheel covers. It's sad but true.

Anyhoo, a new RWD Lincoln makes me all giddy and happy! I can't wait! I'm just hoping that sometime between now and then they'll get a better stylist and someone will grow some balls and get rid of that stupid strut front suspension and put in a proper SLA system. I...hate...struts...

 

[Fla02LS]

The pictures are the 2013 MKZ. Kinda Interesting. Base V6 is bumped up to 300hp. Has no tranny gear shift, uses buttons. The 2013 MKZ and MKS has their pluses and minus. I really dont like the new MKS front end. Not a fan of the horizontal grill. I will tell you, i test drove a Ecoboost MKS and that thing is a rocket. My brother just got a new F150 with the Ecoboost and that thing is even pretty quick. Not new mustang 5.0 quick but not bad for a full size truck.

 

[soundwaves454]

ford did ok letting jaguar design the ls.. they should have given saleen a few thousand to build an engine, brake system, and suspension along with alot more interchangeable goodies

 

[LS4me]

ford did ok letting jaguar design the ls.. they should have given saleen a few thousand to build an engine, brake system, and suspension along with alot more interchangeable goodies

Try MILLIONS!!!! The LS was already priced very close to the break-even point. Would you buy a $60K or more Lincoln (Navigator excepted)? Very few here purchased these cars new (I did) and the price to enter LS land wasn't cheap. I paid very close to $40K for my wife's LS with X-Plan pricing. The sticker was around $45K. I paid ~$17.5K out the door for my 3 year old LS with ~32K miles on the odo. The sticker (I do have it) was a tad shy of $50K!

I keep reading a lot of "should'as" here with apparently no actual thought as to how that would affect the price of the car new. These cars were where they needed to be when new. Now the newest is 6 years old! You can't really expect it to be at the top of the market. There's a reason the 3.9 was chosen. There's a reason for no trans dipstick (no, the transmission isn't sealed).

 

[1LoudLS]

im not saying that every LS needed to be a high performance machine, but they could have made a version that cost a little more and delivered a little more to the customer, caddy did it so we all know its not impossible, BMW, benz, and audi has been doing it for a long time, hell even jag already has a true sport version, so the cost of re-engineering would not be anywhere near the same as starting from scratch.

if you found your $40k car worth its price, then plenty of other people would find a more expensive version worth its price as well.

ford can build a wild car if they want to, right now they just dont have the balls to do it.

 

[hite337]

ford can build a wild car if they want to, right now they just dont have the balls to do it.

That much is obvious. It seems the dont want to really compete with General Motors at all. They have nothing to compete with the CTS-V, their trucks need a makeover BAD, and the Mustangs cant touch the Camaros. I love my LS but I cant think of a Ford product I would go out and buy new.

 

[LS4me]

im not saying that every LS needed to be a high performance machine, but they could have made a version that cost a little more and delivered a little more to the customer, caddy did it so we all know its not impossible, BMW, benz, and audi has been doing it for a long time, hell even jag already has a true sport version, so the cost of re-engineering would not be anywhere near the same as starting from scratch.

if you found your $40k car worth its price, then plenty of other people would find a more expensive version worth its price as well.

ford can build a wild car if they want to, right now they just dont have the balls to do it.

It costs MILLIONS to develop a car; crash tests (one reason there's no manual V8) EPA certification, etc. The CTS-V uses the engine from another model, thereby eliminating the need for anything other than a (relatively) inexpensive set of tests. The LS is EXACTLY what it was designed to be; nothing more nor anything less. It beat it's target (BMW 5-Series) in 3 out of 4 performance metrics.

Actually, they don't have the money to do it!

 

[LS4me]

That much is obvious. It seems the dont want to really compete with General Motors at all. They have nothing to compete with the CTS-V, their trucks need a makeover BAD, and the Mustangs cant touch the Camaros. I love my LS but I cant think of a Ford product I would go out and buy new.

Ford doesn't have the U.S. taxpayer funding them.

 

[Stopsign002]

That much is obvious. It seems the dont want to really compete with General Motors at all. They have nothing to compete with the CTS-V, their trucks need a makeover BAD, and the Mustangs cant touch the Camaros. I love my LS but I cant think of a Ford product I would go out and buy new.

What do you mean the mustang cant touch the camaro? The ZL1 is in serious trouble next year. Plus this year was very close

 

[Telco]

Just read a review on the ZL1 vs the Shelby in I think Motortrend. Said that the Camaro was a better all-around car, but the Mustang was faster through the quarter. When running a loop track, the Mustang was .1 seconds faster on a 2-3 mile multiturn track for the first lap, but the more laps they took the slower the Mustang was due to poor braking. Seems the Camaro has heavy duty ducting to keep the brakes cool, the Mustang has nothing.

Incidentally, I'm no fan of the Camaro. I actually wouldn't have either car because the cabin isn't big enough for me. I can't get the seat to go back far enough. This is one of the things I like about the Charger, there's enough room behind me for someone else to sit and I occasionally have to carry my two adult kids in the car.

 

[thaywood]

...There's a reason the 3.9 was chosen. There's a reason for no trans dipstick (no, the transmission isn't sealed).

What??? The LS doesn't have a dipstick??? I didn't know that. Okay that may be a deal breaker for me. I really wanted an LS but now, not so much. That's one of the things I despise about my mom's '08 Mustang and my sister's '05 Exploder. You can't check the tranny fluid. And I can't change the fluid and filter because I don't have a fvcking pump to get the new fluid up into the tranny. That is one of the stupidest designs I've ever seen. It's nothing more than a way for the company to get more money out of you. Instead of me doing the fluid/filter change in the driveway, my parents have to take the dam car to the stealership and pay $150 bucks for a "flush". And that doesn't even include dropping the pan and changing the filter. I will NOT pay someone to change my transmission fluid. That's stupid. I'll drill a frakkin hole in the side of the case and install a dipstick tube before I'll take one of my cars to a frakkin stealership and pay them hundreds of dollars to do something that I can do in my driveway in less than 30 minutes. Whoever designed that tranny should be shot...repeatedly...

 

[05 LS8]

How many times you need your transmission fluid flushed and the filter changed, that's going to be a deal breaker for you?
And, it's only about $180 for a filter and a flush.

Also, you have to remember, the car wasn't marketed at third/fourth time owners, who were going to climb under the car and change their oil, tranny fluid in this case.

 

[LS4me]

What??? The LS doesn't have a dipstick??? I didn't know that. Okay that may be a deal breaker for me. I really wanted an LS but now, not so much. That's one of the things I despise about my mom's '08 Mustang and my sister's '05 Exploder. You can't check the tranny fluid. And I can't change the fluid and filter because I don't have a fvcking pump to get the new fluid up into the tranny. That is one of the stupidest designs I've ever seen. It's nothing more than a way for the company to get more money out of you. Instead of me doing the fluid/filter change in the driveway, my parents have to take the dam car to the stealership and pay $150 bucks for a "flush". And that doesn't even include dropping the pan and changing the filter. I will NOT pay someone to change my transmission fluid. That's stupid. I'll drill a frakkin hole in the side of the case and install a dipstick tube before I'll take one of my cars to a frakkin stealership and pay them hundreds of dollars to do something that I can do in my driveway in less than 30 minutes. Whoever designed that tranny should be shot...repeatedly...

Since you apparently don't know; the reason is the engine couldn't be installed from the bottom with the dipstick. The shock towers are too close. It isn't some vast conspiracy. The manufacturer makes zero dollars from dealer maintenance. I saw a forum somewhere where someone installed a dipstick in a Mustang. IIRC he sells the hardware.

 

[thaywood]

How many times you need your transmission fluid flushed and the filter changed, that's going to be a deal breaker for you?

At leat once every 20k-30k miles, sometimes even less (I've changed the fluid/filter in my Mark VIII 3 times in the last 30k miles because it had never been done when I got the car with 173k miles on it). I put a lot of miles on my vehicles. And yes. If I can't do something as simple as changing my transmission fluid and filter, I won't get the car.

And, it's only about $180 for a filter and a flush.

!?!?!?ONLY!?!?!? Good God man! I work for the state. I'm not made of money! And there's no way in hell I'd pay that much money for something I know dam well won't take me more than 30 minutes of labor and less than $60 in fluid and filter. That's outrageous. That's why I refuse to take my car to a stealership for anything. Period.

Also, you have to remember, the car wasn't marketed at third/fourth time owners, who were going to climb under the car and change their oil, tranny fluid in this case.

No car is "marketed" toward 3rd/4th time owners. However, most vehicles will have 3, 4, 5, 6, maybe even more owners in their lifetime. Some of those owners (like myself) prefer to do their own maintenance. Unfortunately, manufacturers are making that more and more difficult with each new model. The shade tree mechanic is all but extinct. I may be the last of a dying breed...

Since you apparently don't know; the reason is the engine couldn't be installed from the bottom with the dipstick. The shock towers are too close. It isn't some vast conspiracy. The manufacturer makes zero dollars from dealer maintenance.

Okay. Interesting. I didn't know that. So that particular transmission was specifically designed from scratch just for the LS because they couldn't fit a transmission with a dipstick under the hood? I don't buy it. Ford is a multi-billion dollar global vehicle manufacturer. They have engineers who are apparently intellegent enough to design cars. So they could have designed a dipstick somehow. Or the dipstick could have been installed after the engine/transmission was installed. They could have figured a way around that. It reminds me of a comic I once saw in the back of a car magazine. It showed two engineers in lab coats standing over a car with the hood open. One of the engineers was pointing at the engine. The caption said:

"Wait. We need to redesign that bracket. I can still see the #4 spark plug."

That kinda sounds like what's going on here. But I could be wrong...

I saw a forum somewhere where someone installed a dipstick in a Mustang. IIRC he sells the hardware.

Cool. I'll have to look that up. But that begs the question, if somebody sells the hardware to put a dipstick in these transmissions, why couldn't Ford do it? It's apparently very possible.

 

[LS4me]

Okay. Interesting. I didn't know that. So that particular transmission was specifically designed from scratch just for the LS because they couldn't fit a transmission with a dipstick under the hood? I don't buy it. Ford is a multi-billion dollar global vehicle manufacturer. They have engineers who are apparently intellegent enough to design cars. So they could have designed a dipstick somehow. Or the dipstick could have been installed after the engine/transmission was installed. They could have figured a way around that. It reminds me of a comic I once saw in the back of a car magazine. It showed two engineers in lab coats standing over a car with the hood open. One of the engineers was pointing at the engine. The caption said:

"Wait. We need to redesign that bracket. I can still see the #4 spark plug."

That kinda sounds like what's going on here. But I could be wrong...



Cool. I'll have to look that up. But that begs the question, if somebody sells the hardware to put a dipstick in these transmissions, why couldn't Ford do it? It's apparently very possible.

One word...... MONEY!! Lincoln dropped the LS sill plate from the '04 LS to save ~$4 per car.

Obviously you've never run a business.

 

[thaywood]

One word...... MONEY!! Lincoln dropped the LS sill plate from the '04 LS to save ~$4 per car.

Obviously you've never run a business.

So what you're saying is because they couldn't get a dipstick to fit under the hood while it wass attached to the transmission, the 5-speed auto in the LS was specifically designed from a clean sheet solely for the purpose of getting a dipstick-less transmission in the LS? Sounds like a waste of money to me. That's why they had to drop that sill plate. They had to recoup the loss from all the r&d for that tranny!:lol: Anyhoo, I really would like to have an LS one day. I love those cars. But only if I can put a dipstick in the transmission so I can change my own fluid. Car companies sometimes do extremely stupid things to save a buck.

 

[hite337]

"Wait. We need to redesign that bracket. I can still see the #4 spark plug."

That kinda sounds like what's going on here. But I could be wrong...

How much engineereing went into this stupid ass bracket? All it does is hold two wire harnesses and hold one wire loom further away from the exhaust manifold. FLM engineering at its best, no wonder the LS was over budget. And what about the engineering that went into the whole Gen1 hydraulic cooling fan system, instead of just giving it a bigger alternator with a regular electric fan?

 

[thaywood]

Overkill at its best:lol:

 

[hite337]

What??? The LS doesn't have a dipstick??? I didn't know that. Okay that may be a deal breaker for me. I really wanted an LS but now, not so much. That's one of the things I despise about my mom's '08 Mustang and my sister's '05 Exploder. You can't check the tranny fluid. And I can't change the fluid and filter because I don't have a fvcking pump to get the new fluid up into the tranny. That is one of the stupidest designs I've ever seen. It's nothing more than a way for the company to get more money out of you. Instead of me doing the fluid/filter change in the driveway, my parents have to take the dam car to the stealership and pay $150 bucks for a "flush". And that doesn't even include dropping the pan and changing the filter. I will NOT pay someone to change my transmission fluid. That's stupid. I'll drill a frakkin hole in the side of the case and install a dipstick tube before I'll take one of my cars to a frakkin stealership and pay them hundreds of dollars to do something that I can do in my driveway in less than 30 minutes. Whoever designed that tranny should be shot...repeatedly...

When you drop the pan on the transmission you dont even get half the ATF out of the system. The rest is tied up in the cooling coil, lines and torque convertor. A full flush is the only way to get it all changed. The last ime I had the pan off of my transmission it only dumped out 6 or 7 qts. The entire system takes 16 or 17 qts IIRC. There are ways to do a flush in your driveway using two five gallon buckets and some hoses but its messy and tricky. I'll just pay the dealer to do it once every 150,000 miles like the manual says. Trans flushes are the only thing I dont do to my LS myself. However, a dipstick would be nice!

 

[1LoudLS]

It costs MILLIONS to develop a car; crash tests (one reason there's no manual V8) EPA certification, etc. The CTS-V uses the engine from another model, thereby eliminating the need for anything other than a (relatively) inexpensive set of tests.

which is exactly the same thing ford should have done, used systems from other cars, up until the LS for a while there was a Lincoln based off of a mustang/Thunderbird platform, if they didn't want to use pony parts they could have just did the same thing as JAG, bigger brakes, and a lot more power. again already developed and in use in another car, so all they needed was inexpensive set of test!

The LS is EXACTLY what it was designed to be; nothing more nor anything less. It beat it's target (BMW 5-Series) in 3 out of 4 performance metrics.

yeah, the basic 5 series, now i could be wrong here, but i thought BMW made a high performance version for their customers that wanted a little more, I'm sure a V8 sport LS would stack up to a M sport or M5 real well, and before you say that it wasn't designed to do so, that is exactly my point. they need to push the envelope to compete will all the other companies.

Actually, they don't have the money to do it!

yep your right, in the late 90's and early 2000's they have no money to develop anything performance oriented,

well unless you count the ford GT (im sure designing and building a super car is really cheap) but at least they continued that long enough to turn a profit with it...

or the new shelby they released in 06...

or the lightning up till 04...

your totally right, no money to develop anything fast...


It really comes down to ford's engineers basically just phoning it in for a good decade a few years back, had they not, they probably wouldn't have push out such a bland Taurus and basically handed over all their market share they had over family car to Toyota, just to let the Taurus wither off and die.

 

[pragmatic]

I have been driving for over 30 years and I've never owned a car with a transmission dipstick. I like to keep it simple since I do all of my maintenance. For the LS all I needed to do is open a drain plug, reinstall the plug, remove the fill plug and pump 1.5 quarts in and now all of the fluid has been changed.http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com//images/smilies/biggrin.gif

 

[05 LS8]

At leat once every 20k-30k miles, sometimes even less (I've changed the fluid/filter in my Mark VIII 3 times in the last 30k miles because it had never been done when I got the car with 173k miles on it). I put a lot of miles on my vehicles. And yes. If I can't do something as simple as changing my transmission fluid and filter, I won't get the car.



!?!?!?ONLY!?!?!? Good God man! I work for the state. I'm not made of money! And there's no way in hell I'd pay that much money for something I know dam well won't take me more than 30 minutes of labor and less than $60 in fluid and filter. That's outrageous. That's why I refuse to take my car to a stealership for anything. Period.



No car is "marketed" toward 3rd/4th time owners. However, most vehicles will have 3, 4, 5, 6, maybe even more owners in their lifetime. Some of those owners (like myself) prefer to do their own maintenance. Unfortunately, manufacturers are making that more and more difficult with each new model. The shade tree mechanic is all but extinct. I may be the last of a dying breed...



Okay. Interesting. I didn't know that. So that particular transmission was specifically designed from scratch just for the LS because they couldn't fit a transmission with a dipstick under the hood? I don't buy it. Ford is a multi-billion dollar global vehicle manufacturer. They have engineers who are apparently intellegent enough to design cars. So they could have designed a dipstick somehow. Or the dipstick could have been installed after the engine/transmission was installed. They could have figured a way around that. It reminds me of a comic I once saw in the back of a car magazine. It showed two engineers in lab coats standing over a car with the hood open. One of the engineers was pointing at the engine. The caption said:

"Wait. We need to redesign that bracket. I can still see the #4 spark plug."

That kinda sounds like what's going on here. But I could be wrong...



Cool. I'll have to look that up. But that begs the question, if somebody sells the hardware to put a dipstick in these transmissions, why couldn't Ford do it? It's apparently very possible.

You know, i love how people come here and complain about the LS and how things aren't designed the way they are supposed to.

Really? WTF
If you are that smart, why aren't you making 6 digit numbers....... and having your dealership do the work for YOU.


There is no reason to change transmission fluid every 20,000 miles. If you really passionate about your car, change every 80,000 miles. That's more than enough.


And, welcome 21st century where transmissions are sealed for life and oil changes done once a year.

 

[BlackLS06]

So what you're saying is because they couldn't get a dipstick to fit under the hood while it wass attached to the transmission, the 5-speed auto in the LS was specifically designed from a clean sheet solely for the purpose of getting a dipstick-less transmission in the LS? Sounds like a waste of money to me. That's why they had to drop that sill plate. They had to recoup the loss from all the r&d for that tranny!:lol: Anyhoo, I really would like to have an LS one day. I love those cars. But only if I can put a dipstick in the transmission so I can change my own fluid. Car companies sometimes do extremely stupid things to save a buck.

The transmission in the LS is used in the S-Type, Aviator, Ranger/B-Series, Explorer, Mountaineer, Thunderbird, Mustang and some of the Falcons.

You can try adding a dipstick as they make kits for the stangs but its good to have it done at the dealer. They can also update the computer for it as its a learning transmission and learns while you drive.

This really isnt a reason not to get an LS. Yes a dipstick would be nice, but its isnt necessary to change it as often as you do. Owners manual says every 100K or so i believe.

 

[thaywood]

You know, i love how people come here and complain about the LS and how things aren't designed the way they are supposed to.

Happens at the Mark VIII section all the time

Really? WTF
If you are that smart, why aren't you making 6 digit numbers....... and having your dealership do the work for YOU.

That's a good question. Just took the wrong path and made a couple of mistakes early on that I couldn't recoup I suppose. That's why I do my own maintenance. I'm broke all the time

There is no reason to change transmission fluid every 20,000 miles. If you really passionate about your car, change every 80,000 miles. That's more than enough.

30k miles was the interval when I first started working on cars. I still stick by that.

And, welcome 21st century where transmissions are sealed for life and oil changes done once a year.

I don't believe in "sealed for life". And the only way I would change my oil once a year is if I only drove it 3k miles a year.

The transmission in the LS is used in the S-Type, Aviator, Ranger/B-Series, Explorer, Mountaineer, Thunderbird, Mustang and some of the Falcons.

I know. I was being sarcastic.

You can try adding a dipstick as they make kits for the stangs but its good to have it done at the dealer. They can also update the computer for it as its a learning transmission and learns while you drive.

That would be the way to go.

This really isnt a reason not to get an LS. Yes a dipstick would be nice, but its isnt necessary to change it as often as you do. Owners manual says every 100K or so i believe.

I'm old school. I've been working on cars since I was old enough to hold a wrench. Back then, 30k miles was the recommended trans fluid/filter change interval. And 3k miles was the interval for oil/filter, which I still adhere to. I can't in good conscience let a car, I don't care how new or well made it is or what the manual says, go 150k miles without a trans fluid change. It just seems...wrong...

When you drop the pan on the transmission you dont even get half the ATF out of the system. The rest is tied up in the cooling coil, lines and torque convertor. A full flush is the only way to get it all changed. The last ime I had the pan off of my transmission it only dumped out 6 or 7 qts. The entire system takes 16 or 17 qts IIRC. There are ways to do a flush in your driveway using two five gallon buckets and some hoses but its messy and tricky. I'll just pay the dealer to do it once every 150,000 miles like the manual says. Trans flushes are the only thing I dont do to my LS myself. However, a dipstick would be nice!

I also drain my torque converter in my Mark VIII. I usually get 11 or so qts of the 13 it holds.

 

[oddball]

I also drain my torque converter in my Mark VIII. I usually get 11 or so qts of the 13 it holds.

No drain plug on LS converters.

Spend the $5 on a fluid pump and be done with it.