odd fit on camshaft sprocket

G

grizzlyls

Dedicated LVC Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2016
Messages
541
Reaction score
50
Location
California
My mech is curious about the fit difference of the

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ENGINE-TIMI...a14f1f1&pid=100677&rk=4&rkt=4&sd=182044530731

to the XW4Z-6M253-AA camshaft bushing (shrouded)

It seems that in any year that camshaft bushing was the only one ever made and referenced as a part. but with the 2002 sprocket, it doesnt fit the same way as it did in 2000 - 2001. That was a direct drop in, and it seems snug, like the two pieces would be one. The 2002 version doesn't sit down as far it would seem. I am not real clear, just trying to get the right idea for my mech to proceed.

How do these things work any how? Does the sprocket spin on the bushing? Is it meant to be a solid unit when bolted down?

Any one have access to the 2002 service manual pages detailing this point? Would need a pdf, or something link to a wrong year manual or where to buy wont help in the quick need I have to get info to him today.

Thanks guys.
 
Ok, so best info anyone has with dealers open on holiday is that the 2002 did not use that bushing. Thats what my mechanics gut said, thats what the pictures for a 2002 show in the Ford manual its just the sprocket alone. So we are going that route, going to button it up just like a 2002 without the bushing. Will update if its a success.

Its odd the ford parts system still showed it, but then again it also said it was valid for a gen II and that we know is wrong since the variable timing sprocket is even completely different.
 
There wasn't any bushing when I did my 01 v8. That may be for the gen 2 with var. cam timing. Joegr can verify that since I haven't seen a gen 2 torn down. Can you post pictures of your chains and tensioners? You had said you were going to upgrade to the new style. The set I got from Christopher's looked like my original chains but with metal tensioners and updated chain guides. Ben
 
It sounds to me like you are the fortunate soul that got a 2001 manufactured AFTER May 2001. If thats the case, you would not have that big hunk of metal on the front of the camshaft/assembly from the 2002 workshop manual pics I have. It would also mean you have the better oil pump, which I was going for but have failed. It meant redoing the whole bottom end oil pan setup. There is a small window of Gen 1 that upgraded (2002 mostly) this system, and I believe that if a warranty job was being doing right, they had a bottom end conversion kit (like Fel-Pros) that changed out all the stuff to the upgrade. Small chance that someone may have a 2000/early 2001 like this.

Anyhow, I wont have pics, since it is a mech that is doing it, but first step is find out when your car was built. If it is like I suspect, your chains are the better ones, as are mine now. Basically it is obvious, the weak pre 2001 chains are bicycle chains. The update ones are what are termed over under I think - and its like 4-5 pieces of metal per link that sits on TOP of the sprocket. The teeth dont poke through like a bike.

I am going to post a thread for info when the job is done and proved worthy this week, with parts pics from web at least so people know they can upgrade safely.
 
51VO6gezupL.jpg

Actually found a good pic of the best kit available for our car. The smaller secondary chain up front is the 'bicycle' chain. Those never changed. The longer primary back ones you can see how there is much more support with all those little links. Genius design if you ask me for a high stress system.

51VO6gezupL.jpg
 
My 01 was built in Aug of 00. I do have the big hub on the front of the camshaft. My new chain set from Christopher's has all 4 chains like your bicycle chains. My right bank chain had some stretch in it and wasn't tight against the guide and guides and tensioners had some cracks. The kit was listed for 2000 to 2006 and did include the o-rings for the variable cam timing which I didn't need. I guess I don't have the new improved chains but the originals lasted for 140,000 miles so these should last as long as I am able to drive.

DSC00043.jpg
 
Good pic of that assembly. Ya, the bushing is that big heavy knob on the front that really is part of that sprocket, even though they separate. No clue why its called a bushing. The chains you have I believe Chris sources from a place that is a little better than OEM, but hey you did good for 140k. As it turns out this is the second time my car has had new chains. Grandpa kept solid receipts and hand documented records, so I dont know how/when the first was done. It would have been likely during the time the son drove it but still under warranty pre 50k miles, but Lincoln has no records on warranty work for it,
 
Not being a DInCK... but it seems by posts in another thread,,, I may have been right about your mechanic with the issues he had with your previous install. No... I'm not rubbing salt in your wound. Certain years of the LS,,, were "crossover" years... meaning Ford did design changes "mid year". The trick is talking to a GOOD parts guy at a Ford dealership.

Been on this "soap Box" many times over the years... but is pays to "play nice" with your local dealer. Make friends with the parts department... especially with the parts manager. There is a reason he/she is the manager!!! I buy a fair amount of ford parts from my local dealer. If I EVER have a question about parts on a specific vehicle,,, I can call my "buddy" up... and he will tell me if any design changes were made,,, or if parts were superceeded to another part number.... because of a DESIGN CHANGE. He/she will then tell me what parts I need.... based on what vehicle I have,,, and what design change was made. This always seems to end with me gettiong the proper parts i need to make PROPER repairs.

And NO... I'm not bashing your mechanic. He/she is probably very capeable,,, but the LS is a bit of a "bastard" design... especially the 3.9. Especially with some of the mid year design changes. Sometimes it pays to do some research on what parts were used when... and what changed.
 
Wow. Dont know what I did to offend you, and you are DEFINITELY not reading the information right. I have only been on this project since march. My previous 2002 had lincoln certified care so ALL the work was done by dealership for free. Yes it was a blessing. This car I have had to rely on finding trusted mechanics (2 a tranny and general) and they are the ones that are FIXING issues of previous owners bad mechanics - not causing them.

It is EXTREMELY hard to get dealerships to help you in litigious California. I do believe I have started a good relationship with this dealer, but I cant afford to pay them, nor can they really help get parts anymore since its mostly all 'discontinued'. So doubt they will be friendly long.

Since it is clear we don't communicate well, please refrain from posting in my threads in the future unless you have something positive to contribute. Thank you.
 
Grizz...

First I will apologize. You did NOTHING to offend me. I'm sorry I offended and insulted you by my last comments. That was NOT my intention. I am sorry that I caused a conflict between you and i. There is most likely some truth,,, that you and i are seeing things through a different perspective.

Maybe I am seeing things from the outside looking in... or maybe there has been a misunderstanding on my part... of the information you have given in this thread.

You are posting here... (correct me if I am wrong), that the cam gear and front cam "bushing"... are not mating properly when bolted tightly. To me... this seems a mis-match of parts... unless as 55 Crown vic mentioned,,, you might be tyring to install gen2 o-rings that aren't needed in a gen1 V8.

I suggested to you that "maybe", (due to the month of manufacture of your LS), that maybe there was a "mid year" design change.... and that maybe you got the wrong parts by mistake and misinformation. I've been through that on some of my own vehicles. I have gotten wrong parts in the past from reputable parts dealers... either due to lack of information,,, or lack of knowledge. No one's fault in particular... but it DOES happen,,, because the updated information takes a while to "move down the chain of command".

That being said... in a post on another thread,,, you mentioned that the mechanic working on your LS,,, had a camshaft move on him. That NEVER should have happened. There is a specific set of tools that can be bought or rented... to make sure the camshafts on the LS don't move AT ALL... including a specific tool for the crankshatft/flywheel.

This was my first "red alarm" that something wasn't right. The second "red alarm" was that things weren't bolting together properly. Supposedly,,, you got the right parts, (all dependant on a mid year design change by the manufacturer),,, from a Ford or jag dealer... and things still weren't going together as youn hoped.

In my 35+ years of turning wrenches,,, and knowing how parts information can sometimes not be accurate... I saw something that maybe you didn't. Either way... you may not have the right parts... or maybe the mechanic you are using,,, doesn't have enough experience with Jag engines to do the work. I know I am repeating myself at this point... from when first offended you,,, and I am sorry if I am. Not my intention. I may be wrong. Something is.. but it's not my LS that isn't going together properly,,, so I am not emotionally invested.

Still not being a DInCK at this point. Just asking you to take a step back... and a deep breath,,, and rethink things. PM others in this forum,,, who have more knowledge about the LS than I do. You may get a solution... or you may end up hearing the same thing i said.

Either way Grizz... I never meant to Pi$$ you off,,, or hurt your feelings. AGAIN... I AM SORRY FOR THAT!!! Can you accept my apology???

Again... I'm not being harsh. Just looking at things from the outside,,, because there are multiple things adding up to something that doesn't seem quite right
 
I'm gonna bite my tongue for now on what i wanna say... and I'm waiting for your response.

Back in my day,,, the Mechanic... WAS the computer! If a vehicle came in not running right,,, first step... check the base timing. Then check carb mixture. Adjust primary mixture screw on carb,,, then check secondary mixture screw, (if it had one). Then go back to base timing and repeat same steps. If still not running right,,, then pull each plug wire... one at a time... until cylinder misfire was found. Swap plug wires,,, and if no change,,, pull plug on problem cylinder and swap plug. If problem fixed... then go back to base timing and carb adjustments.

So far... not much different than what most modern computers diagnose . But this is wher the mechanic goes beyond the computer.

However... if engine still didn't run right... then spray carb cleaner around intake and carb base.. and see if idle rises. If it does,,, then change intake or carb gaskets,,, depending on what location improves idle. Might even be only a cracked vacuum line... or faulty PCV valve.

If still no improvement,,, then do a compression test... both "dry"and "wet". If compression improves during "wet" test... then most likely faulty rings. if compression doesn't improve on cylinder... then either bad valve or collaped lifter...or valve lash out of adjustment. Either replace lifter based on knowledgeable engine sounds and experience... or adjust valve lash on mechanical rocker arms or pushrods. Special proceedure for that... based on individual engine and manufacturer.

At this point... we're wayyy past anything any computer could diagnose nowadays. All the computer can do is give "symptoms"... not cause. The rest is up to the mechanic... based on knowledge,,, and how an engine is properly assembled.

So in the end... give the mechanic his due.

I'll stop here for now.

And yes Grizz,,, I am giving constructive input. If you don't see it that way... then I have to wonder why???
 
Apology accepted. I am a pretty easy going guy, certainly never going to get to the point that I insist everyone runs unpressurized cooling system.....

On my part, I admit I have virtually zero experience turning wrenches. Part of the problem is I may not say the right things. As far as my mechanic goes, I will defend his honor, since he has shown me a lot of crap things that previous mechanics have done shadily. He has hunkered through them all. Since he is non specialist he sometimes does things old school - in this case it was vice grips in a v shape front and back on cam in case of movement. All that happened was it popped up, and he just pushed it back down. Sure probably not the best, but 500 bucks for a couple of blocks of metal is out of my budget.

As far as the parts difference, I do as much research as I can here on site and web. This project was intended to upgrade to the 2002 variant of chains and oil pump. Thus the differences. The 2002 workshop manual gave the best clue - newer model sprocket and no big metal hub like in 55's pic. It is back together and turned over fine. Now I am waiting for him to finish the over-tightened bolt on PS pump from a previous mech. Never ending.

Well enough for now. Watch for a description of all that I found out with this ugrade soon.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Members online

Total: 146 (members: 2, guests: 144)
Back
Top