Very Good Read on Oil

skizot722

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OK, I was researching types of oil for my muscle car, and I came across this article. It's not an article specific to muscle cars, but instead it's about various weights of oil and why you should use them. It's a fairly length article, but all of the good stuff for discussion is located in Motor Oil 101 - 106.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/faq.php?faq=haas_articles

In summary (please read the article though before posting :D), the author suggests using 0W-XX oil, even if you live in a place that never gets cold (you'll understand why after reading sections 101-106 of the article). I know the owner's manual for the LS says that the recommended oil is 5W-20, and so I'm running Mobil 1 fully-synthetic 5W-20 in my LS right now. After reading the article though, I was thinking about switching to 0W-20.

As far as my Chevelle goes, I'm currently running 20W-50 in it, and was thinking about switching to 0W-40. The only thing I need to research with that is on the absence of ZDDP (needed for proper lubrication of engines with flat-tappet cams, but removed because it's bad for O2 sensors and catalytic converters, and isn't really required due to the advent of roller cams in the mid 1980s). Yeah, I know, this is the LS forum, but figured I'd add that bit about my Chevelle. :)
 
I run AMSOIL full synthetic 0W 20 in my LS and I'm very pleased with it.

I'm pretty sure the LS uses a flat tappet style cam so there should be no need to worry for your Chevelle.
 
Hrmm, I'm pretty sure the LS (and all new[er] cars) have roller cams/followers.

How much does that AMSOIL run you for your LS?
 
Damn that was some serious reading! :eek:

I use the Valvoline Durablend which is semi-synthetic...

5W20 in the LS and
10W30 in the Chevelle (soon to be 5W or 0W if I can find it)

Skizot - I'd be interested in what you finally decide for your Chevelle...
 
Hrmm, I'm pretty sure the LS (and all new[er] cars) have roller cams/followers.
The LS uses DAMBs--Direct Acting Mechanical Buckets--just like the old SHO V6. Flat tappets, no rollers.
 
The LS uses DAMBs--Direct Acting Mechanical Buckets--just like the old SHO V6. Flat tappets, no rollers.

OK, did some reading. You are right, the LS uses DAMBs, but the design behind these is nothing like a flat-tappet lifter/cam in an older-style small block (or big block).
 
Well here's a good shot of the innerds on a first gen 3.9. Ill let you decide what kind it is.

maheenjun1.jpg


It runs me right about $60 with shipping for the AMSOIL, 7 quarts and a filter. But I do have a preferred customer account so I get the stuff at wholesale prices. I got the account because I have several different cars which I regularly service (family members mostly). Seems like a lot of money for an oil change, but with a 25000 mile / 1 year drain interval, you save in the long run.
 
OK, did some reading. You are right, the LS uses DAMBs, but the design behind these is nothing like a flat-tappet lifter/cam in an older-style small block (or big block).
It depends on what you mean--I don't know about the metallurgy (which is important in this case), but if you look at the interface between the LS's DAMBs and the camshaft and the interface between a pushrod V8's tappets and camshaft, there's little, if any, difference between them, mechanically speaking. Both DAMBs and non-roller tappets/lifters have flat steel faces under tension riding on ovoid cam lobes...
 
It depends on what you mean--I don't know about the metallurgy (which is important in this case), but if you look at the interface between the LS's DAMBs and the camshaft and the interface between a pushrod V8's tappets and camshaft, there's little, if any, difference between them, mechanically speaking. Both DAMBs and non-roller tappets/lifters have flat steel faces under tension riding on ovoid cam lobes...

Yeah, I see what you're saying. And yeah, I think it has to do with the types of metal each is made of, and the foot pressure exerted on the lobe faces. This is how I assume that the modern oils with little to no ZDDP can properly lubricate the DAMB setup of an LS/Jaguar/Mazda (6 and MPV). This isn't the case for the flat-tappet setup of older engines. They must have the ZDDP to form an adequate film of lubrication on the cam lobes and flat lifter to prevent cam lobe wear and lifter foot scuffing. If you use an oil without ZDDP in an engine like that, then you're just looking for trouble. LOL

Knowing that you can use a modern oil in the LS that has virtually no ZDDP, I'm assuming that the foot pressures exerted on the cam lobes from the DAMB design are lesser than in the flat-tappet setup of older engines, and/or that a different type of metal is used (however, I thought that mostly all cams new and old were ground from the same type of metal). I'm not sure what the answer is though, as I don't know enough about DAMB. :confused:
 
I would expect both cams to be of similar metallurgy, but I couldn't guess about the difference in metals between the DAMBs and the old lifters--particularly if they were hydraulic lifters instead of mechanical tappets. For that reason alone I think you're right--I don't think you can safely extrapolate from the AJV8 to an SBC, even if the DAMBs and lifters are mechanically similar.
 
Wow! That is making rethink what I use in my 280zx and 77 F250 with the 460. I think that they would benefit from 5w-40 or 0w-40 semi-syn oil. I have been using 20w-50 Castrol Syntec-Blend in them forever. Maybe even switching the LS and Mountaineer with 4.6 V8 to 0w-20 oil. Because of all the stop and go here in LA.
 
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I have used 0W-30 Mobil 1 in the Explorer ever since new but I can't find it anymore and nobody wants to special order it for me. So now I run 5W-20 Mobil 1 in both the Ex and LS. After reading this I'll widen my searches to try and find the 0W 20 for both.

Nice find Skizot, a very good read, even if it did take me awhile.
 
That 25,000 interval seems long, but I'm confident that any quality full syntetic can provide protection for that length..especially based on the old Consumer Reports long term test where basically, even after 15k miles, conventional motor oil was STILL had adequate wear and protection properties.

That said, I've been using WalMart brand full synthetic and MotorCraft filters every 10k miles on my LSE since new. That was 99k miles ago. Thinking of moving to 15k intervals for these last 60k miles I plan to put on her before selling.
 
mnmridg, 0W-30 Mobil1 has been re-branded as Mobil1 "Advanced Fuel Economy". They seem to be making it a lot more now under that brand and I see it at Wal-Mart and all the Auto Parts stores. Pretty common around here.
 
A major difference between the old-style solid/hydraulic lifter V-8s and the AJ-style bucket follower is that the valves in the AJ, being smaller, don't require nearly as much spring pressure. This cuts down on the scrub effect between the iron cam lobes and the steel shims in the top of the bucket followers.
KS
 
Not a total believer. Wear at start-up is due to all the oil being drained into the sump. Also, nearly all oil pumps are mechanical, only operating while the engine is turning or running. Also, when an engine is cold (ambient temp), the different types of metals, alloys have a certain tolerance. As the engine warms up to normal operating temperature, the metals expand at slightly different rates depending upon which alloy they are. The engineers spend countless hours trying to find the lightest, cheapest, strongest, and most durable alloys for an engine. An iron block, iron head, with cast piston, OHV (165 - 180 degree thermostat) engine will most certainly require a different oil than an all aluminum engine with forged pistons and hotter normal operating temp (195-210 degree thermostat) engine. Both being naturally or normally aspirated. Oil man states that full synthetic will virtually last forever as long as you continue to replace the additives. Well, the number one reason for oil changes is the raw fuel the seeps by the rings and contaminates the oil. Gasoline is a solvent and "Breaks-down" the oil, conventional or synthetic. I agree with a lot of his facts and some of his opinions, but some of his statements are just not true. I'm not knocking the guy, just putting in my two cents. I believe in 5,000 mile or 6 month intervals no matter what type of oil. After 5,000 miles you start having to add oil due to burn off and numerous oil analyses show that the oil is just starting to become too contaminated for continued use. So, to recap, wear at start-up is due to the tighter tolerances of cold (Ambient Temp) alloys used in the engine and the fact that the oil is in the sump and not pumped until after the engine is already turning. Has little to nothing to do with the “Thickness” “Viscosity” or resistance to flow of cold oil. The lower viscosity oils in fact do not cling as well, but instead drip off and drain into the sump when the engine is off. I agree that Synthetic is a better overall oil but not so much better to offset the cost. I have my oil changed every 5,000 or 6 months with semi-synthetic 5w-20, factory filter, somewhere around thirty dollars, parts and labor. Also,What the heck is a guy who owns Exotics driving around a Ford Expedition (Why not Hummer, Grundig or something) and using conventional Pennzoil… Blah. Oil expert??
 
mnmridg, 0W-30 Mobil1 has been re-branded as Mobil1 "Advanced Fuel Economy". They seem to be making it a lot more now under that brand and I see it at Wal-Mart and all the Auto Parts stores. Pretty common around here.

Not here Brentalan...unfortunatly. Wally World, K-Mart, Advance Auto, Autozone, Napa, and some other that I'm drawing a blank on...I bought them all out and they won't restock any 0W-20 or 30. I did finally find one Advance that a store manager gave me the card of the lady who does all their commercial account. He said she may order it for me if I get a couple cases at a time. I'm going to give her a try. I don't mind having it on hand, it will make me short change the oil though...
 

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