upper timing chain master link opinion

[grizzlyls]

http://christophersforeigncarparts....v8-2000-2006-upper-timing-chain-service-kit-1

Since the price is right on this kit, think I will take joes advice and do this right away since mine still purrs like a kitten. Question I have though is I see conflicting opinions on the web about the master link. Anyone do one of these and know if it is a stable piece? Being from chris's, I imagine it is tops from what you guys say, but thought I would ask real quick before ordering.

 

[oddball]

A master link simply won't be as strong as a regular link, and it could come back apart (that's the design feature after all).
For the level of stress (i.e., not much) that's put on a secondary timing chain, I can't imagine this would be an issue. Just make sure the master is installed correctly and won't work itself loose.
I wouldn't have any reservations.

 

[windryder]

I installed the master link secondary chains from chris's back in 2009. I just had to pull it all apart again this last week, and the ML chains looked as good as the day I installed them! My problem was the new improved upper tensioner on the LH side had lost it's bottom plastic piece. If you use the ML chains make sure you install the master link with the closed end in the direction of the motors rotation.

 

[grizzlyls]

Thanks wind, this helps me continue with the decision of going with the upper half kit. My car was babied, and it will be interesting to see the status of the tensionors. At 100k though, I dont want any risk of killing valves so while I am in on the cops getter-done!

 

[RigsLS]

... If you use the ML chains make sure you install the master link with the closed end in the direction of the motors rotation.

^ this! +1

 

[smegun]

got a 2002 ls sport got the quick fit chains and 4th gen tensioners I thought I had it chain was slightly loose and seemed tensioner was at full length I pulled the caps zip tied the chain on the cam sprocket went to move the cam it wouldn't budge noticed that a lobe of the cam was indexed against a lifter put the caps back on rotated the crank to relax the cam took off the caps and could remove the tensioner turned out a red one like the new one I got the aftermarket one even looks a little cheaper noticed these tensioners are really not that strong of a spring and can be depressed fairly easily …… my cam doesn't appear to have flats for lining up so im being careful but wondering if its the chain itself that gets slack or do they keep adding length to the tensioner

 

[joegr]

… my cam doesn't appear to have flats ...

They most certainly do. If you don't understand timing this engine, you are likely to do serious damage to it.

 

[RigsLS]

… my cam doesn't appear to have flats ...

They most certainly do ...

Yup, they all have 'flats'. You'd not be able to set timing without them.

Take notice of the new (white guide) tentioner, see how far it pushes the secondary chain upwards.
Old split, cracked, worn out 1St GEN tentioners fail and thus does not provide the upwards tention to keep the chain in it's position as it should.

The crack/split prevents the little pin on the shaft to stop at the notch-out and at such point the exhaust cam will skip a tooth and out-of time is the result. You don't even want to see the damage of internal valves and such. You'd be looking for a replacement motor at that point.

On these 1st GEN Lincoln LS'es, when the secondary tentioners (and guides) give out, the secondary chain will flop around and you'd hear a 'bag-o-marbles-in-tin-can' noise at idle. It'll be so loose, should you continue to drive it hard and beat on it, it'll simply skip a tooth and end up out of time if your lucky. Worse case scenario, it grenades the entire motor. Lay a good beating on all the valve and mark up the top of the pistons. A huge and expensive job to recover from. Replacement motor would be cheaper and faster.

Really shouldn't do this job by means of, tie-warping the secondary sprockets to chain, loosening the caps and lifting one of the cam to fit the tentioner. Really shouldn't! The cam caps wear in and they really shouldn't be messed with. If you do, you need to be sure you are marking the location, direction of each cap and everything including the bolts have to go right back in the same location you took them out. you can not just simply mix and match when you put them back in. All bolts have to be torqued back in, in a very specific certain sequence/order. This is done so to ensure even seating and clamping force.

Myself, I'd never lift a cam to do this job when a simple cam locking tool can be purchased for this job.

One is actually meant to lock the Primary in place (at the bottom near the trans bell housing with an available Crankshaft Setting tool) but that's a whole other story. The Primary can be locked or kept in place with the tie-wrap to chain method, you just can't allow the primary to slip from position when aligning the secondary.

You need to complete one BANK at a time.

IMO you're asking for trouble lifting the cams.


Attached file: V8 Secondary Timing Chain Tensioner Replacement.pdf
Should have a read ...

GLWR

.

 

[RigsLS]

Also note that when the Secondary tentioner and guides go, the primary's are not far along.
a complete refresh should really include both Secondary & Primary.

The whole works, all chains, tentioners and guides.


I'd rather sit through a root-canel without sedation. Honestly!





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[AmsterDutch]

Also note that when the Secondary tentioner and guides go, the primary's are not far along.
a complete refresh should really include both Secondary & Primary.

The whole works, all chains, tentioners and guides.


I'd rather sit through a root-canel without sedation. Honestly!





.

That's the same advise my mechanic told me last week

 

[smegun]

appreciate that ...but i was in knee deep found out you have to relax the lobes cant remove cam without starting from a relaxed lobe position which seems to be flats are on sides not visible .. ended up having to turn the crank with both covers off to view all cyls with flats parallel with heads when done to make sure ...still not together yet (latin) drivers side pain had to drain it remove the bottle to remove the master cyl to have enough room and is still tight ..noticed slop on secondary it was a red tensioner thought it was plastic wasn't its a newer type like the newer one I bought ...maybe spring in tensioner was too relaxed replaced the tensioner and quick fit chain hope I don't miss any fine tune as with sprocket rout wish me LUk

 

[smegun]

beware accidently broke the dipstick ...plastic accidently broke the connector to the power brake booster I mean could it be bleeding prestone ...connectors to brake master are fused ...oil fill on valve cover broke a little and poped in my hand like hate to say it abs is petrox based

 

[RigsLS]

That's the same advise my mechanic told me last week

What? about going for a root canal without sedation over redoing all this timing ?


in reality, being Secondary or Primary, they are both in the oil sump with the same miles on them going through the same constant heat cycling. The tentioners on the Secondary tend to split and causes the loose chain but deeper down, the Primary has a few longer guides that are already looking like that split Secondary tentioners, I'm sure.

Think we can all agree, these LS'es as fun and cool they are, they are getting to be some 15yr old cars.

My 04 LSE is going on 15yrs come January 2019
My 01 LS Sport is going on 18yr


.

 

[AmsterDutch]

What? about going for a root canal without sedation over redoing all this timing ?


in reality, being Secondary or Primary, they are both in the oil sump with the same miles on them going through the same constant heat cycling. The tentioners on the Secondary tend to split and causes the loose chain but deeper down, the Primary has a few longer guides that are already looking like that split Secondary tentioners, I'm sure.

Think we can all agree, these LS'es as fun and cool they are, they are getting to be some 15yr old cars.

My 04 LSE is going on 15yrs come January 2019
My 01 LS Sport is going on 18yr


.

They're going to be some of the sweetest looking classics someday...

 

[oddball]

Also note that when the Secondary tentioner and guides go, the primary's are not far along.
a complete refresh should really include both Secondary & Primary.

.

I'm not so sure about that. The primary design is completely different and quite a bit easier on the parts.
There was a mid-generation design change sometime in '01 or '02 that changed to a different style primary chain and added squirters to the oil pump. Someone tried to do a conversion but had a lot of trouble finding all the parts.
In the end, as long as the primary chain hasn't stretched, I'd leave that part alone. Of course that's after I did the complete R&R in '10. My kit had the earlier Gen 1 parts and my '02 had the later Gen 1 primaries so I reused most of the primary components.

 

[smegun]

some unnecessary surgery in my case ….right caps in right order chains new …* beware the chains may naturally have some slack rotating the engine may show reasons for the tensioners to stiffin up my first observation was loose but there like that until rotating the engine so don't let first impressions embark your decision making I changed the chains and tensioners to no effect they were already the type being changed or improved tensioners on the 2002 sport not the older plastics when I do a more complete rebuild ill discover the primaries may be needed more the guides and tensioners if I cant get it to pur then its off with her head

 

[jokken]

a question I have wondered from time to time (no pun intended), when I'm reading about changing these timing components on the V8s. is there the same concern for these tensioners and chains for the v6? (GenI/GenII)

 

[joegr]

There have been some V6 timing chain failures related here, but only a few.

 

[FDR]

Different chain setup though. The V6 has a single chain in each bank, so there's no secondary chain and upper secondary tensioner