Turbo project

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Tiltedhalo

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I am looking for some input on remote twin T3 turbo's on my Mark VIII. The engine is freshened up and has ported heads and new aftermarket cams. I am looking at twin T3's mounted where the mufflers are running into a single 3" pipe to the front with a blow threw MAS. I would set both turbo's wast gates at 8 PSI, I am not looking for 1500HP just a nice dependable 40% HP increase.
Any input from anybody familiar with turbo's would be appreciated.
 
Tiltedhalo said:
I am looking for some input on remote twin T3 turbo's on my Mark VIII. The engine is freshened up and has ported heads and new aftermarket cams. I am looking at twin T3's mounted where the mufflers are running into a single 3" pipe to the front with a blow threw MAS. I would set both turbo's wast gates at 8 PSI, I am not looking for 1500HP just a nice dependable 40% HP increase.
Any input from anybody familiar with turbo's would be appreciated.
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I would recommend running a smaller boost pipe to the front. I am an STS Turbo dealer and most of the STS systems use 2" boost pipe coming forward. Keeps velocity high while reducing lagtime and helping with boost response. Some cars also have issues with ground clearance because it is sometimes hard to route the boost pipe in a location where it will optimize ground clearance.

What kind of cams are you running? If they are N/A cams then they will hurt performance with the turbos.

Since you plan to run blowthrough MAF if I were you I would convert your car over to a slot-in MAFS versus the tonsil style that comes stock. Tonsil MAFS are good but the slot-ins are much better, especially in blowthrough with a supercharger or turbo system. Better resolution and will not be as finicky with placement. This will help with tunability which will probably save you money in the long run. If you do end up staying with a tonsil style MAFS then I suggest that you pick up a used 03-04 Cobra MAF or LMAF for dirt cheap ($50). They will support upwards of 425-450rwhp which I assume is the area you plan to shoot for while on 8 psi boost if not a little more.

Where do you plan to source your turbo's from?
 
A single STS system would give you the power and reliablility your looking for. Might want to check them out. Dual STS would get you over those numbers pretty easy.
 
The cams are, lift .425/.450 duration 261/259 center line 114. The stock throttle body plates have been knife edged, throttle body was ported and polished, slightly modified stock intake, and the IMRC's have been retained. The car has a 90 MM Lighting MAF. Rebuilt trans with a 02 75Rw valve body with a baumann stage 4 kit and 3000 stall, and 3.53 gears.
My major concern is the engine compresion ratio witch is stock.
Can I use one MAF plumbed to the back split to the turbo's?
can both turbo's be plumbed into one 2.5" pipe to the front?
Also I am curious about blow off valve placement.
The car presently puts down 286RWH.
Any help is appreciated, Thanks
 
Oh I have not sourced out the turbos yet, this is my wifes black on black 97 LSC it isnt fast enough for her:rolleyes: 13.3 in the quarter. I have most of the tools and software for the project and would like to keep cost under $1500, her budget.
 
All internals are stock, Total seal rings, ARP rod bolts, stock piston have been refinished and treated. Engine has electric water pump, Accel coils, new fuel pump, stock 24 lb injectors, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, 3rd cat's been removed 1 x crossover installed and 2.5" pipe to the back with no mufflers with 3" resonator tips.
The car runs well, but the wife drives like a testosterone laden 18 year with a Z06. I was going to use NOS, but thought with the wifes $1500 budget I could source this job with a little more work:D and not have to refill a bottle every two days.
 
Hate to be a party pooper, but with those few dollars you might just get her setup with 4.10's and a chip. That should handle nicely for her and stay within your budget.

A TT project to be successful would need at least 5 times what you mentioned, and that's leaving the insides of your motor alone.
 
I suggest you search the turbo forum. There's a significant section that focuses on 'junkyard tech'. A pair of 2.3 turbos, off of a turbo Tbird or Mustang could be inexpensively plumbed into your project. Although not perfect, you might be pleased with the result. There're extensive build threads on that forum.
KenS from Ben's Place
 
Tiltedhalo said:
Oh I have not sourced out the turbos yet, this is my wifes black on black 97 LSC it isnt fast enough for her:rolleyes: 13.3 in the quarter. I have most of the tools and software for the project and would like to keep cost under $1500, her budget.
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Unless you do a JY build and do ALL of your own fabrication and tuning then you will easily go over that $1,500 price. Even adding up the raw materials and basic parts including somme used JY turbos you will get right up there in price quick. Just the stainless steel tubing alone will set you back a few hundred EASY. You could go with mild steel but I suggest that you have it coated even if you live in FL, which can be sticky at times.
 
Tiltedhalo said:
The cams are, lift .425/.450 duration 261/259 center line 114. The stock throttle body plates have been knife edged, throttle body was ported and polished, slightly modified stock intake, and the IMRC's have been retained. The car has a 90 MM Lighting MAF. Rebuilt trans with a 02 75Rw valve body with a baumann stage 4 kit and 3000 stall, and 3.53 gears.
My major concern is the engine compresion ratio witch is stock.
Can I use one MAF plumbed to the back split to the turbo's?
can both turbo's be plumbed into one 2.5" pipe to the front?
Also I am curious about blow off valve placement.
The car presently puts down 286RWH.
Any help is appreciated, Thanks
Click to expand...



A 9.9 CR is not terrible for boost. For lower boost that CR is right in there. Go too low CR and you will run into boost response issues with a turbo system.

I suggest that exhaust routing go like this: Each bank powers each turbo which will have its own wastegate. Come out of the turbo's with your cold side piping and Y them into a single pipe to carry forward to the front of the car. If you think you may experience ground clearance issues with the slightly bigger single pipe then you may benefit from running two smaller diameter pipes forward and then once you get to the front Y them together. Then after the Y and before the IC do your BOV (optional on an auto car). Come out of the IC and route your single boost pipe (stepping up to 3" at least) and route it into your engine bay. Locate the MAFS at a point in the pipe where it has at least 12" with no bends or size (diameter) transitions. Try to have about 4" or more straight tube after the MAFS too so you minimize backwashing affects which can hurt driveability.

If you do still end up doing this project after seeing the expenses involved then give me a call with any questions you may have and I can explain them in better detail. I have helped many a people on this forum and quite a few others to build their own turbo systems from scratch. PM me for my contact information if you want?
 
Ok I have 20' 2.5" stainless, various couplers and reducers, plan on using my MAF, already have good 2.25" dual with third cat removed to the back, so my one major expense is the turbo's. And I have Pro Cal software, and a couple others.
A couple other people have doubts about the engine internals:( I dont believe I will have a problem with 8PSI of boost, The crank is a stock forged cobra and full floating pistons with ARP bolts and total seal rings, if that cant handle 8PSI..... Hell I was going to flog it with 175 wet shot.
Basically I planed on hanging the turbos in the stock muffler positions running the drivers side turbo across y together with the 2.5 to the front along the passenger side trans tunnel to the front then cut to the right to the front of the engine bay keeping my present MAF position.
Thanks for the help:)
 
Unless you put a Cobra Crank in on the rebuild, the Mark Vlll is a cast crank just for your info. I think most of the concern is around not having forged pistons and rods for this application.

Don't forget a new MAF, and chip are going to be needed, and unless you have a whole lot of in depth experience tuning with Turbos and sorting out their drivability issues, you will need some quality time somewhere where they do.

I do wish you well on this project as I would like to see one done, just pointing out some realities.

BTW, I am running 3 inch SS exhaust from my headers all the way back, so there is room adleast going to the rear. I think you may have to mount the turbos infront of the rear axle (fuel cell into the trunk wheel well) as well as oil pump/cooler/filter system.
 
Roadboss said:
Unless you put a Cobra Crank in on the rebuild, the Mark Vlll is a cast crank just for your info. I think most of the concern is around not having forged pistons and rods for this application.

Don't forget a new MAF, and chip are going to be needed, and unless you have a whole lot of in depth experience tuning with Turbos and sorting out their drivability issues, you will need some quality time somewhere where they do.

I do wish you well on this project as I would like to see one done, just pointing out some realities.

BTW, I am running 3 inch SS exhaust from my headers all the way back, so there is room adleast going to the rear. I think you may have to mount the turbos infront of the rear axle (fuel cell into the trunk wheel well) as well as oil pump/cooler/filter system.
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There are many 2v 4.6 Mustang GT's putting out 400+rwhp with supercharger's (Kenne Bell, Vortech S-trim, Paxton Novi 1200) running 9-10 psi on the stocker internals just fine. This guy's heads likely flow a good amount better than the stocker PI heads that the GT's have so he will make more power per pound of boost. Yes the GT's do have lower compression but not much lower. I say that if the OP's stock bottom end is in good shape then it should be able to take 8 psi no problem. It should put down some pretty solid numbers considering the higher hp/psi boost turbos make.

As a Ford custom tuner myself I do have to strongly agree that tuning a turbo vehicle is unique onto itself. Tuning in general is difficult for a novice to pick up let alone tuning FI cars. If this is the OP's first time tuning then I would suggest that he have a professional tuner dial his car in and then afterwards maybe he can play with a few things to learn.
 
Well after a lot of thought I am going on with the project, I purchased a pair of used Garrett T/3 T/4 63 trim 50AR turbos with 8psi waste gates that needed rebuilding they are of a 2.3L. Total investment with rebuilds 340.00. They fit perfect where the stock mufflers used to reside, they will require some creative mounting and tail pipe work.
Now I going to get some looks for this...... I am going to pipe them forward using a common commercial 2.5 inch oblong PCV pipe, it fits perfect has a working fluid pressure of 160psi and vapor pressure of 210psi and a working temp of 267 deg F. A- its easy to work with, B- its cheaper.
I am building a custom positive pressure drop fluid heat exchanger, with the help of a friend of mine that's an engineer for Lockheed Martin. It will reside in the stock airbox location. I have to use an inter cooler due to the use of the PCV. I am going to reinforce the stock air inlet and use a regenerative Blow of valve at 6psi. I have a cobra MAS in stock location. I am also upgrading fuel injectors waiting to find a set for a good price.
So far I have priced out the pipe couplers and odds and ends at around 490.00. The inter cooler is some "donated" parts.
At this point I plan on coming in under budget, but with allot of fabrication and elbow grease.
 
it will be an interesting build, please document it, as i am sure that most will be inspired by it in the future.
 
if you are running boost, throw that MAF in the garbage and comvert to a standalone using a MAP sensor. been there, done that, trust me on this.
 
bryantaylor said:
if you are running boost, throw that MAF in the garbage and comvert to a standalone using a MAP sensor. been there, done that, trust me on this.
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MAF turbo cars have went 1,000+rwhp without any issues. MAF also has WAY better driveability and tunability compared to MAP too. There is absolutely ZERO reason why this guy should go with MAP and a standalone controller. There is no way in hell that anyone should convert from MAF to MAP in their vehicle unless they are pushing past 1,000 hp on their vehicle and only plan to use it for racing. Yes 8-10 years ago and your go straight to MAP idea may have been the ticket but not anymore by a long shot.
 
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