Shop wants to rebuild my 5R55N -- thoughts?

[jasond]

02 LS V6, very clean, 76k miles. Throwing a P0745 and a P0795 once the trans heats up. Seems to not want to shift into 4th and/or 5th gear (i think... I do know it's holding a lower gear). Works fine when cold.

I was hoping to get away with routine service plus a solenoid pack and a shift kit. I am a good enough wrench, but decided to send this job out.

Small owner/operator shop, guy is familiar with the 5R55N's innate flaws. He drops the pan, fluid is somewhat dirty (he says this is the clutch coming apart), some metal bits stuck to magnetic plug.

He is recommending a rebuild, including a re bore and re sleeve of the pistons, new torque converter, etc, says that a rebuild will correct all the design flaws.

Quote is $1500, which is very fair, but I am still not convinced that a full rebuild is needed. Any thoughts anyone might have would be greatly appreciated!!

 

[Rockbottom]

02 LS V6, very clean, 76k miles. Throwing a P0745 and a P0795 once the trans heats up. Seems to not want to shift into 4th and/or 5th gear (i think... I do know it's holding a lower gear). Works fine when cold.

I was hoping to get away with routine service plus a solenoid pack and a shift kit. I am a good enough wrench, but decided to send this job out.

Small owner/operator shop, guy is familiar with the 5R55N's innate flaws. He drops the pan, fluid is somewhat dirty (he says this is the clutch coming apart), some metal bits stuck to magnetic plug.

He is recommending a rebuild, including a re bore and re sleeve of the pistons, new torque converter, etc, says that a rebuild will correct all the design flaws.

Quote is $1500, which is very fair, but I am still not convinced that a full rebuild is needed. Any thoughts anyone might have would be greatly appreciated!!

The tipping point for a rebuild in my decisions was when the tranny slipped and not before. In your case you need 3rd and 4th otherwise you drive in 2nd. Take tjhe car to the best known like Gettysburg transmissions Phone 717-334-8205 and ask for estimate to repaior 3&4. They likely verify if your right or it truely needs a rebuild to work. Ask the guy for 1500 for a written guarantee of months he says it will stay rebuilt before it goes out again. Dont worry what the 1500 guy feels. But do go to the best tranny shops with my suggestion.Then decide what to do. The 1500 guy is not trying for a small job , he wants the 1500 job and is biased

 

[1LoudLS]

1500 seems quite low for a complete rebuild, especially if doing extra work like sleeving the servo bores... hell the dealers will charge near that just to replace the solenoid pack.

 

[RigsLS]

1500$ they just boltin in one they sourced from a salvage yard. While your not looking, 500$ used Trans, 1000$ to put it in .... Guarenteed! Get what you pay for, take your business elsewhere.

 

[jasond]

1500$ they just boltin in one they sourced from a salvage yard. While your not looking, 500$ used Trans, 1000$ to put it in .... Guarenteed! Get what you pay for, take your business elsewhere.

It's a reputable shop. I live in a very quiet rural area so it is not unusual to find things for very reasonable prices.

 

[Rockbottom]

1500 seems quite low for a complete rebuild, especially if doing extra work like sleeving the servo bores... hell the dealers will charge near that just to replace the solenoid pack.

My post is to get another opinion. I included the name of a well known transmission shop in his area Gettysburg PA and their Ph # so he can find out if he can get 3rd and 4th to engage without rebuilding the transmission at less cost than jumping right into a so called rebuild at 1500. This is a second opinion approach. If gettysburg transmissions says for sure after scanning the transmission for codes, it can be fixed, then no rebuild. If they say it can't then rebuild is in order and the nextstep is to find reputable shop Either Gettsburg or the 1500.00 guy. Shops today offer a 2 year 24,000 mile guarantee at additional cost. I did so for my 1995 buick century and it lasted beyond 5 year. Paying low and then paying over is penny wise and pound foolish in my and others views

 

[Rockbottom]

02 LS V6, very clean, 76k miles. Throwing a P0745 and a P0795 once the trans heats up. Seems to not want to shift into 4th and/or 5th gear (i think... I do know it's holding a lower gear). Works fine when cold.

I was hoping to get away with routine service plus a solenoid pack and a shift kit. I am a good enough wrench, but decided to send this job out.

Small owner/operator shop, guy is familiar with the 5R55N's innate flaws. He drops the pan, fluid is somewhat dirty (he says this is the clutch coming apart), some metal bits stuck to magnetic plug.

He is recommending a rebuild, including a re bore and re sleeve of the pistons, new torque converter, etc, says that a rebuild will correct all the design flaws.

Quote is $1500, which is very fair, but I am still not convinced that a full rebuild is needed. Any thoughts anyone might have would be greatly appreciated!!

My post is to get another opinion. I included the name of a well known transmission shop in his area Gettysburg PA and their Ph # so he can find out if he can get 3rd and 4th to engage without rebuilding the transmission at less cost than jumping right into a so called rebuild at 1500. This is a second opinion approach. If gettysburg transmissions says for sure after scanning the transmission for codes, it can be fixed, then no rebuild. If they say it can't then rebuild is in order and the nextstep is to find reputable shop Either Gettsburg or the 1500.00 guy. Shops today offer a 2 year 24,000 mile guarantee at additional cost. I did so for my 1995 buick century and it lasted beyond 5 year. Paying low and then paying over is penny wise and pound foolish in my and others views

The magnet inside the pan is normal if it picks up tiny bits of metal that do not appear to have been broken bits of a tranny part.Not a major sign of a rebuild needed

 

[RigsLS]

It's a reputable shop. I live in a very quiet rural area so it is not unusual to find things for very reasonable prices.

Up to you as always of course.
Might be worth a shot, get it in writing that It'll fix the problem. Hate for you to have it rebuild then find out it didn't fix the problem to only afterwards need to send the PCM out for repair.

Do let us know.

 

[Rockbottom]

Up to you as always of course.
Might be worth a shot, get it in writing that It'll fix the problem. Hate for you to have it rebuild then find out it didn't fix the problem to only afterwards need to send the PCM out for repair.

Do let us know.

Go to Gettysburg Transmission for a 2nd opinion

 

[RigsLS]

Now why would I want to do that?

a) I'm not the one with the 3-4 problem.
b) I'm in Canada ...

 

[jasond]

My post is to get another opinion. I included the name of a well known transmission shop in his area Gettysburg PA and their Ph # so he can find out if he can get 3rd and 4th to engage without rebuilding the transmission at less cost than jumping right into a so called rebuild at 1500. This is a second opinion approach. If gettysburg transmissions says for sure after scanning the transmission for codes, it can be fixed, then no rebuild. If they say it can't then rebuild is in order and the nextstep is to find reputable shop Either Gettsburg or the 1500.00 guy. Shops today offer a 2 year 24,000 mile guarantee at additional cost. I did so for my 1995 buick century and it lasted beyond 5 year. Paying low and then paying over is penny wise and pound foolish in my and others views

Yeah, I was kind of thinking that actually. I had our Windstar at Gettysburg trans a few years ago, service was fine, IMO. The one I am looking at is Millers transmissions in Hunterstown. I have been there a few times and I find him to be an honest guy that won't do unneeded work. For $1500, I am not totally adverse to just doing the rebuild, as I plan to dive the car a lot for the next few years and this would reduce the risk of getting stuck somewhere. It's a very nice, clean, low mileage LS.

 

[grizzlyls]

I think he is quoting ahead of the curve. My Solenoid and Valve body rebuild in L A area was 1000 alone. That is probably what you need, but hey he is right in terms of design flaws and for 1500 for the whole lot, if he puts 2 or 3 years warranty on it $1500 is a steal. Second opinion never hurts as well.

He probably has done a ton of the N version from the navigators, and has confidence he can do it fast and easy.

 

[jasond]

I think he is quoting ahead of the curve. My Solenoid and Valve body rebuild in L A area was 1000 alone. That is probably what you need, but hey he is right in terms of design flaws and for 1500 for the whole lot, if he puts 2 or 3 years warranty on it $1500 is a steal. Second opinion never hurts as well.

He probably has done a ton of the N version from the navigators, and has confidence he can do it fast and easy.

Yeah, he says he is familiar with this trans. He only charged $60 for the diagnostic -- pulled the codes, dropped the pan, refilled the fluid. That is a VERY reasonable price, and one of the upsides to living in bumblef*ck. The downside to living in bumblef*ck is that it is impossible to find a job.

 

[heyjewel]

Yeah, I was kind of thinking that actually. I had our Windstar at Gettysburg trans a few years ago, service was fine, IMO. The one I am looking at is Millers transmissions in Hunterstown. I have been there a few times and I find him to be an honest guy that won't do unneeded work. For $1500, I am not totally adverse to just doing the rebuild, as I plan to dive the car a lot for the next few years and this would reduce the risk of getting stuck somewhere. It's a very nice, clean, low mileage LS.

Lemme tell ya what happened to me. Bought a used 2001 LS V6. Had 120K or so on it. Would not shift out of 3rd. I didn't care cause I just wanted the engine. Got it home and wife says - HEY, daughter needs a car. Can't you fix that transmission? Gee honey I dunno. I've never worked on an auto tranny before. To keep the peace I decided to give it a try. And with a lot of research, a lot of help on here and some coaching from an engineer who worked on the 5r55n, I was able to fix it!!! The total cost not counting my labor was about $235. $100 or so for Mercon V, $30 or so for new filter, $100 or so for rebuilt solenoid pack from ebay and $8.00 for a spring for the valve body. There's is an extremely useful post on here which I will now try to find which taught me about this spring which almost certainly will be broken in your car. Mine was broken into three pieces. Taking the valve body out was the most nerve-wracking part of the job but it's doable if you're careful. Oh, you will need a 10mm ratcheting wrench to get the solenoid pack out and back in again. Here is thread on how to get your 5r55n in tip top shape. Read it and decide if u want to do it yourself. Note that I did not do the servos. Good luck. $1500? Not me.
5R55 Repairs

You will need to have your car jacked up the same at all four corners - level- when it comes time to fill it back up with Mercon V

 

[joegr]

Well, you can't have everything. If you trust him, go for it. It seems like a good deal. There are two things I would do.
1. Make a secret mark (scratch) somewhere on the transmission housing (not the pan). When you get it back, you can look for that to verify that it was rebuilt instead of a junkyard one being switched in.
2. See if you can pin him down to a written warranty on the repair. It seems like he should be willing to at least go to 2 years / 30K miles on the transmission. Get in writing what he promised to do as well.

 

[RigsLS]

... 1. Make a secret mark (scratch) somewhere on the transmission housing (not the pan). When you get it back, you can look for that to verify that it was rebuilt instead of a junkyard one being switched in ....

^ this .... I was so thinking this last night and would have been my next comment. I would do the same. Chisel and hammer, mark a small spot in a not so noticeable location.

I honestly for 1500 don't see that getting split, servo bore reamed out, fitted with a sleave, multiple new internals AND a new torque converter, plus filter, fluid and labour. Guy is loosing money on that job, not going to happen. Not at that price.

 

[jasond]

Lemme tell ya what happened to me. Bought a used 2001 LS V6. Had 120K or so on it. Would not shift out of 3rd. I didn't care cause I just wanted the engine. Got it home and wife says - HEY, daughter needs a car. Can't you fix that transmission? Gee honey I dunno. I've never worked on an auto tranny before. To keep the peace I decided to give it a try. And with a lot of research, a lot of help on here and some coaching from an engineer who worked on the 5r55n, I was able to fix it!!! The total cost not counting my labor was about $235. $100 or so for Mercon V, $30 or so for new filter, $100 or so for rebuilt solenoid pack from ebay and $8.00 for a spring for the valve body. There's is an extremely useful post on here which I will now try to find which taught me about this spring which almost certainly will be broken in your car. Mine was broken into three pieces. Taking the valve body out was the most nerve-wracking part of the job but it's doable if you're careful. Oh, you will need a 10mm ratcheting wrench to get the solenoid pack out and back in again. Here is thread on how to get your 5r55n in tip top shape. Read it and decide if u want to do it yourself. Note that I did not do the servos. Good luck. $1500? Not me.
5R55 Repairs

You will need to have your car jacked up the same at all four corners - level- when it comes time to fill it back up with Mercon V

Thanks. I may consider going this route.. I rebuilt an NP435 (4 spd w/ granny) a few years ago, so doing what you are describing should be doable. I do have ratcheting wrenches... in the Air Force we called them dog bones.

 

[Rockbottom]

Yeah, I was kind of thinking that actually. I had our Windstar at Gettysburg trans a few years ago, service was fine, IMO. The one I am looking at is Millers transmissions in Hunterstown. I have been there a few times and I find him to be an honest guy that won't do unneeded work. For $1500, I am not totally adverse to just doing the rebuild, as I plan to dive the car a lot for the next few years and this would reduce the risk of getting stuck somewhere. It's a very nice, clean, low mileage LS.

If the shop guarantes the tranny in writing"this tranny is guaranted for 1 year from this date of this invoice aginst defects bla bla"I would with reservations trust the 1500.. price. I would insist on an item by item broken down that way . No rebuild transmission 1500.00 bill.

 

[jasond]

Thanks for everyone's input. After consulting with you guys, I am going to ignore the shops recommendation to rebuild at this time. I just drove it about 35 and it drove beautifully. That said, I still think it makes sense to do some preventative maintenance. I am going to replace the shift solenoids and install the transgo shift kit which you guys seem to like. I already redid the entire suspension and the brakes, so I wanted to outsource the trans work, but that did not seem to work out. Plus, I am unemployed right now... so -- you know how it goes.

 

[cammerfe]

There is a repair available for the worn servo bore that obviates the machine work. I have a link somewhere but I have too !@#$%$#@! much stuff to find it easily. Google?

KS

 

[joegr]

There is a repair available for the worn servo bore that obviates the machine work. ...KS

The servo with the o-ring added?
It's mentioned in the link in post #14. I wouldn't call it a long term fix.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

Jasond,

You say you are a decent mechanic. If you have the confidence... for the $500 for the solenoid, fluid, filter, and inexpensive fill tool... why not try this yourself first??? The most this will cost you is the fluid, filter and $10 fill tool.

If this fixes it, then you're ahead a grand. If it doesn't... I dont' think the shop could justify charging you for another replacement solenoid. At the most... you would be out roughly $100 for trying this yourself first.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

I wonder if this was another 2002 that "slipped through the cracks", (so to speak), that didn't get the additive required through the Ford specific TSB???

 

[cammerfe]

The servo with the o-ring added?
It's mentioned in the link in post #14. I wouldn't call it a long term fix.

I haven't rebuilt a trans since my last C6 but the explanation regarding why the added O-ring works---and the other features that are part of the kit, should mean that it's not a 'band-aid'. It's also possible to get a re-done case if you were to be so-minded.

Joe, I have great respect for your knowledge and your willingness to share it, but there ARE other solutions than 'buy a new factory (only) part and put it in.' I'm a hot-rodder---been one for more than 60 years---and most factory items are built for service for the 'masses' and have some degree of room for improvement---in one way or another.

KS

 

[joegr]

The issue is that the o-ring does wear down after enough shifts. If you're only shooting for 50K more miles, then it's probably okay, of if you have an Explorer or Ranger and can change out the o-ring without dropping the transmission each time.
Anyway, it's just a warning that people have had issues with this "fix." I'm sure that not everyone has.