New battery won't start car

[n8bachelor]

Hi guys. I'm having trouble starting my car. I know these are known for some electrical gremlins but this is my first time dealing with them. My last LS was relatively error free for 100k.

First the background:

• 2006 Lincoln LS with under 50,000 miles. Has aftermarket head unit but factory amps and speakers. Head unit installed in summer by me. Rear sub amp removed due to blown deck speakers.
• DCCV is malfunctioning and the car is blowing hot anytime the HVAC is on, no matter the settings. I have the part but not the time/tools to fix it.
• Old battery estimated at 4-5 year old was leaving me stranded inconsistently. Jumped car 10-15 times in the past 3 months.
• Previous owner installed a keyed switch on battery ground wire as a "battery saver" because he rarely drove the car. I used it a few times when I guessed the battery would leave me stranded. Worked most of the time.

Then the story:

• Today, I replaced the battery with an X2Power AGM Battery from Batteries Plus.
• Installed the battery and tried to start the car, dim interior lights and no start. Tested with volt meter and it read under 10v while connected. Disconnected and it was reading 11.6ish Weird. Rechecked the terminal connections, seems fine.
• Jumped the car and drove 10+ miles at highway speed with no accessories on to try to charge it up a little. Parked the car at 2:00 back at work.
• Left work at 6:00 and had to get a jump to start the car. Parked at home and took some more readings with the meter.

Car running:

Car engine off @6:14:

Car engine off @6:15:

Battery disconnected from car:

Based on the steady decreasing voltage while connected and the difference in voltage when disconnected I assume I have a heavy draw of power while the car is shut off. I understand I did not wait long enough for the car to "sleep" but didn't want to risk getting stranded again in the morning. Could that explain why it would not start with a fresh battery?

What is the best way to check for and isolate a short in the car?
Do I have to check all the damn fuses in the car?
Could the DCCV cause a power drain even if the HVAC is off?
Was I supposed to charge the new battery before connecting it?

 

[don-ohio]

Probably bad starter or solenoid from all the abuse of the old battery. That battery new should read near or at 13 volts,not 11.6 ....I'm wondering if it wasn't charged properly or recently, or if the starter draw is just too much for it. Get your starter checked.
Also,did you hook up your vent to the new battery? How many cranking amps does it have or say it has? don-ohio ^)

 

[Andrizzle]

First the background:

Previous owner installed a keyed switch on battery ground wire as a "battery saver" because he rarely drove the car. I used it a few times when I guessed the battery would leave me stranded. Worked most of the time.

Are you sure he didn't install this to overcome the parasitic draw that you are now experiencing?

My guess is your answer lies here.

 

[n8bachelor]

Probably bad starter or solenoid from all the abuse of the old battery. That battery new should read near or at 13 volts,not 11.6 ....I'm wondering if it wasn't charged properly or recently, or if the starter draw is just too much for it. Get your starter checked.
Also,did you hook up your vent to the new battery? How many cranking amps does it have or say it has? don-ohio ^)

I thought it looked a little low since it read under 12v. It may have been sitting on the shelf a while at the store. 60 month full replacement warranty on it though.
Battery specs say 930CCA with 74amp-hour capacity. Yes, I hooked up the vent to the new battery.
I had not thought of the starter being the issue since it jumping the car started it every time. I'll look into that too.

Are you sure he didn't install this to overcome the parasitic draw that you are now experiencing?

My guess is your answer lies here.

Yes, that is possible. But I had the car a year as my daily driver without any starting issues.

 

[don-ohio]

Find that battery draw by pulling one fuse at a time.Probably some good info here if you search `battery drain' or similar. Start with the fuse or relay for the seats,etc. That's how I found one in a Grand Marquis that was draining the battery bad. It was the power seat,driver's side. don-ohio ^)

 

[n8bachelor]

Well, like I said I disconnected the battery from the car last night. Tested at 11.8v this morning. But when I plugged it back into the car it dropped to under 10v. Car would not turn over so I got a jump and went to work. I expect to need another jump to get home. This is getting ridiculous and I don't have a charger.
Guess I'll spend this evening pulling fuses...

 

[don-ohio]

I'm wondering whether that battery is charging up correctly? What's a voltmeter show when your engine is idling? Then turn on the headlights and heater on high...then activate the rear window defroster. Does it still show 13.5-14.8 volts? Check it out. don-ohio ^)

 

[joegr]

A few things...
1. That is not the correct battery for your car. It will vent when bad things happen to it (bad things are happening by your readings). It's bad to have corrosive gases in the trunk. It's even worse to have hydrogen in the trunk. It's can be a disaster because the trunk vents into the cabin. The correct battery with the vent tube connection probably cost less than that one did.
2. The LS charging voltage is too high for AGM batteries. That battery will not last as long as the correct battery will.
3. Any car battery is pretty much completely discharged if it's no load voltage is below 12.6 volts.
4. It does sound like you probably have a parasitic drain.
5. Probably your alternator is not charging correctly. Check the voltage while idling and while driving around. It should be around 14.2 volts all the time. Below 13.8 volts and it is not keeping up. Above 14.8 volts and it is overcharging. (Actually, 14.2 is really overcharging for an AGM battery.)
6. I see no reason at all at this time from what you have indicated to suspect any problem with the starter.

 

[n8bachelor]

A few things...
1. That is not the correct battery for your car. It will vent when bad things happen to it (bad things are happening by your readings). It's bad to have corrosive gases in the trunk. It's even worse to have hydrogen in the trunk. It's can be a disaster because the trunk vents into the cabin. The correct battery with the vent tube connection probably cost less than that one did.
2. The LS charging voltage is too high for AGM batteries. That battery will not last as long as the correct battery will.
3. Any car battery is pretty much completely discharged if it's no load voltage is below 12.6 volts.
4. It does sound like you probably have a parasitic drain.
5. Probably your alternator is not charging correctly. Check the voltage while idling and while driving around. It should be around 14.2 volts all the time. Below 13.8 volts and it is not keeping up. Above 14.8 volts and it is overcharging. (Actually, 14.2 is really overcharging for an AGM battery.)
6. I see no reason at all at this time from what you have indicated to suspect any problem with the starter.

Thanks for your input Joe. You are the most knowledgeable person I know when it comes to LS info. My responses:

1. The battery does have a vent. I connected it to the LS vent tube. Take a look at the bottom of the very first picture, it is attached. Looks like there is another vent on the opposite end of the battery too.
2. Strange to hear that the AGM battery would not work for the LS. I thought the Odyssey batteries were an acceptable alternate for the LS and they are AGM as well.
3. I'll have the battery charged and try this whole thing again. Any special requirements for charging the AGM battery?
4. I'll be pulling fuses to try and isolate the drain this evening or weekend.
5. I guess it is possible the alternator is the issue, it could be weak. I measured 14.2-14.4v at idle and got the same with the headlights on. I'll add load on the alternator and measure it again tonight. Not sure how to measure the battery voltage while driving... I know the alternator does provide some charge for the battery but it isn't intended to be used to recharge a completely flat battery. Might have damaged it with continued use on the dead battery.
6. I'm glad to hear the starter should not be suspect. But the alternator replacement could be costly.

I still have the "old" battery and will take it into Autozone for testing and charging tonight. If it is still good, I'll swap it in and get the new battery charged too.

 

[joegr]

If it has two vents, you much plug the other vent.

 

[n8bachelor]

I did get some good news tonight. Took the old battery to Autozone for a check and it tested bad, left it for recycling. Jumped the car with the "new" battery and drove it a couple miles to the Batteries Plus and the guy was helpful and apologetic that I was having trouble with their top of the line battery.

As Joe recommended, I checked voltage at idle (14.4v) and again at idle with lights, heater, and rear defrost running (14.2v) so I'm pretty satisfied that the alternator is OK.

We pulled the dead battery out of the car and the Batteries guy confirmed it was "bad". I didn't get any more details on that one. He pulled another off the shelf and we installed it in the parking lot. Car started right up; that was great to hear. We let it run for a while watching the voltage. Stopped and started a few times and all was good.

However, with the car off the voltage slowly started dropping from 12.8, 12.6, 12.5, 12.4... Batteries guy said it should not go below 12.5 when off and that indicated a parasitic drain on the battery. I'll see if I can look into that this weekend when I have more time, and daylight. For now, I'll use the switch in the back to make sure I don't lose charge overnight.

I read the "Battery Drain Test" procedure at http://deneau.info/ls/ and it looks a little complicated. What is up with #6?

1.Make sure the junction box/fuse panels are accessible without turning on the interior and underhood lights.
2.Drive the vehicle at least 5 minutes and over 48 km/h (30 mph) to turn on and activate the vehicle systems.
3.Allow the vehicle to sit with the key in the OFF position for at least 40 minutes to allow the modules to time out/power down.
4.Connect a fused (10A) jumper wire between the negative battery cable and the negative battery post to prevent the modules from resetting, and to catch capacitive drains.
5.Disconnect the negative battery cable from the battery post without breaking the connection of the jumper wire.
6.NOTE: It is very important that continuity is not broken between the battery and the negative battery cable when connecting the meter. If this happens, the entire procedure must be repeated.
Connect the tester between the negative battery cable and the battery post. The meter must be capable of reading milliamps and should have a 10 amp capability.
7.NOTE: If the meter settings need to be switched or the test leads need to be moved to another jack, the jumper wire must be reinstalled to avoid breaking continuity.
Remove the jumper wire.
8.NOTE: Amperage draw varies from vehicle to vehicle depending on the equipment package. Compare to a similar vehicle for reference.
NOTE: No production vehicle should have more than a 50 mA (0.050 amp) draw.
Note the amperage draw.
9.If the draw is found to be excessive, remove the fuses from the CJB 1 at a time and note the current reading. Do not reinstall the fuses until you have finished testing. To properly isolate each of the circuits, all of the fuses may need to be removed and install 1 fuse, note the amperage draw, then remove the fuse and install the next fuse, until all of the circuits are checked. When the current level drops to an acceptable level after removing a fuse, the circuit containing the excessive draw has been located.
10.If the draw is still found to be excessive, remove the fuses from the BJB 1 at a time and note the current reading. Do not reinstall the fuses until you have finished testing. To properly isolate each of the circuits, all of the fuses may need to be removed and install 1 fuse, note the amperage draw, then remove the fuse and install the next fuse, until all of the circuits are checked. When the current level drops to an acceptable level after removing a fuse, the circuit containing the excessive draw has been located.
11.Check the wiring schematic in the wiring diagram for any circuits that run from the battery without passing through the BJB or CJB. Disconnect these circuits if the draw is still excessive.

 

[1LoudLS]

I read the "Battery Drain Test" procedure at http://deneau.info/ls/ and it looks a little complicated. What is up with #6?

so to test battery drain, all the computers in the car must be asleep. if either the ground or positive wires get completely disconnected, then when they get rehooked up, the computers will wake up.

then you will have to wait again until they all fall asleep.



if any of the computers are not sleeping, the current draw will be higher than what the resting ma draw should be.

 

[joegr]

so to test battery drain, all the computers in the car must be asleep. if either the ground or positive wires get completely disconnected, then when they get rehooked up, the computers will wake up.

then you will have to wait again until they all fall asleep.



if any of the computers are not sleeping, the current draw will be higher than what the resting ma draw should be.

Also (as you know), if any doors are opened or closed including the trunk and the hood (it is okay for them to stay open the entire time, just don't close any that are open), if nearly any button is pressed (including on the remotes) or the glove box opened, then parts of the car will wake up and give you a false positive.

How's the climate control? I've seen that a problem with the DCCV can cause the climate control to not sleep.

 

[n8bachelor]

Also (as you know), if any doors are opened or closed including the trunk and the hood (it is okay for them to stay open the entire time, just don't close any that are open), if nearly any button is pressed (including on the remotes) or the glove box opened, then parts of the car will wake up and give you a false positive.

How's the climate control? I've seen that a problem with the DCCV can cause the climate control to not sleep.

Thanks for the reminder on the doors. I was trying to figure out how I was going to pull the fuses in the footwells with all the doors closed and check the trunk. The dome lights and truck light do sleep after 10 minutes or so with the doors open so that will be handy.

The climate control might be a good place to start looking for the drain. The DCCV needs to be replaced (HVAC blowing hot all the time). It is hard to tell if it is sleeping or not until I put the meter on it.
Thanks again.

 

[seanski]

sincere thnx for the expert knowledge!

Thanks for the reminder on the doors. I was trying to figure out how I was going to pull the fuses in the footwells with all the doors closed and check the trunk. The dome lights and truck light do sleep after 10 minutes or so with the doors open so that will be handy.

The climate control might be a good place to start looking for the drain. The DCCV needs to be replaced (HVAC blowing hot all the time). It is hard to tell if it is sleeping or not until I put the meter on it.
Thanks again.

Joe, i find your knowledge massive, and valuable! As a member of other various interest sites, I am quite sure we are indebted to your accurate and useful info. Not to mention some other heavy-hitters here on this site. Thanks to you all!

 

[don-ohio]

^DITTO,SeanSki! JoeGR is one great dude to listen to. We're really fortunate to have him here and the others too! don-ohio ^)

 

[n8bachelor]

Well, I ran the car as normal for the last week without any issues. No slow crank or jump starts. Measured 12.4+/- every time I checked the battery.
Today I followed the "battery drain test" procedure and registered only 0.02A draw after 40 minutes wait time. I'd say that is normal and no parasitic drain exists. It is interesting to see the trunk light stays active for much longer than the interior lights did. I was worried for a while that was my draw but it did eventually go off before I tested the system.
I'm hopeful that the starting issues I saw were only related to the old (and new defective) battery.

Now on to other issues like replacing the DCCV. I was hoping not to have to drain the coolant but after a quick check there is no way to get that part removed without taking out the upper radiator hose. Might as well at that point...

 

[tbird6]

Sounds great but what did you repair?
I am also trying to find a battery drain.
.
.
.

 

[1LoudLS]

Sounds great but what did you repair?

I'm hopeful that the starting issues I saw were only related to the old (and new defective) battery.

.

 

[n8bachelor]

^^^ what he said.

Sounds great but what did you repair?
I am also trying to find a battery drain.
.
.
.

The only thing I repaired/replaced was the battery. After getting a new one installed that was functional out of the box the car has been starting fine. The battery drain test showed no parasitic drain so I'm confident nothing further needed to be done. Follow the test for yourself to narrow down the location of your drain.