Mark VIII T45 swap?

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Blenderhead

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Well I've never been a fan of automatics, and with the way these motors love to rev, I was thinking a T45 swap would make a huge difference on the way these cars drive. A few years ago I did the T45 swap on a 4.6L cougar that I had, so I do know what I'm getting myself into. The total cost on that swap ended up right at $1500 for everything, including the tune. I probably won't do this for a while anyway since I have too many projects going on, and there is nothing wrong with the trans in my MarkVIII (actually it is a fresh rebuild) but I was looking at the cost on a good TC, plus tune, gears, etc, by the time it's done, I could have a T45 in there for pretty much the same cost. Has anyone done this swap before, and if so, did it really wake the car up? I know on the cougar it was like a totally different car afterwards, and that was on a 2V motor, so I would imagine it would be even more noticable on a 4V. Any opinions? Anyone running around with a T45 Mark already that you can tell me how it drives? Thanks.

Mike
 
I am in the process of putting a t56 in my mark. and a know a guy on this forum has put a t45 in his i am sure he wiil chimp in soon
 
I rode in Mike's (94m5) car with the T45. It had stock gears and pulled hard out of the box
 
I'd be interested in info on this as well but I was told that the T45 is too short for the MN12 cars and you end up smashing your knuckles on the center stack if you dont find some way to extend the trans some how
 
When I did the swap in my cougar, I actually just modified the shifter handle and cut up the center console a bit, and it worked fine. It wasn't pretty, but it only cost me $10 to do it that way, and I was completely broke when I did that swap, so it worked for me at the time. I have seen the shifter extension box, and it doesn't look that difficult to build so I'm sure if needed I could do that. I just don't like the idea of hacking up the back of the trans though. What I'll probably do for this swap is one of those setups like they use for the factory five cars to move it forward. It is basically another shifter handle sitting about 6" away from the original, and it is bolted to the top bolt of the shifter and then it has a ball-style joint on the bottom to mimic the pivot point in the shifter. Doing this would require cutting the floor to let the shifter come up into the car a little bit forward of the current auto trans opening, however the entire mechanism would easily fit under the stock center console, so once the interior was back together, it would look factory.
 
mike & i have one of two marks that i know of that are converted .we used a tbird clutch pedal and a hyd clutch. had to move the pcm from the driver underdash to under the rear seat (longer cable). have to make an adapter for the clutch cyl. make an extension for the shifter and weld to trans. get an adapter for the speedo. plus a good supply of french words. but what a ball to drive plus close to 30 mpg. also a shortend driveshaft the shifter has to be moved 6 inches to the rear. i know at one time mike had a post with pic on site. jd
 
I hadn't thought about the PCM location interfering. How did you extend the harness to relocate it? Is there some adapter harness or something, or are we talking about hours spent soldering extensions in all the wires? Also, when you put the tbird pedal assy in, does it still have all the dimples to tell you where to drill like the tbird firewall does? How about the holes in the shock tower to clip the reservoir into, are they already there? I already know about the driveshaft, and I'll be getting one out of an aerostar, as it is a one-piece aluminum shaft that happens to be the exact right length for a T45 in an MN12. Also just for info, a crown vic driveshaft is the exact right length too, however it is steel not aluminum, so it isn't the best choice. The shifter extension, as I said, I would rather use an external setup than weld on the trans, so I'll do that and hide it under the console. What are you talking about with the adapter for the speedo? When I did the swap on my 94 cougar, it was the same speed sensor on the T45 as on the 4R70, I just had to change the gear to the right one to get the speedo accurate again, since the 4R70 has a 7-tooth drive gear and the T45 had an 8-tooth (or that might be backwards, I don't remember.) Is there something different about the speedo sensor on the Mark compared to the tbird/cougar? Also, I know all about the gas mileage improvement. After swapping my cougar, I got 31mpg running 85mph up I95! Can't complain about that.

Thanks for the info.

Mike
 
the dimples are on the fire wall need an adapter to mount the master cyl to the firewall/pedal. michael made the extenson leads for the PCM. the speedometer needed to connect to the computer so we used a DALLAS MUSTANG adapter with dip switches to set the speedometer. used a gps to set it got it within 4 miles in a thousand miles checked out with a 945 mile run. sure got a lot of looks while stoplight racing. mark viii with an old man 62 driving and banging gears. priceless. might pm michael 94m5 he has the car in col. doing some work on it. JD
 
Well I won't need the adapter cause I'll use a stock SC master cylinder with a 94/95 4-cyl chevy S10 slave mounted externally acting on the stock mustang clutch fork. I was never a fan of the hydraulic throwout bearing idea, and if I'm making a system from scratch, I'm certainly not going to do it that way. What computer does the speedo need to connect to? I'm not understanding this. part of it. The T45 uses the same exact speed sensor as the 4R70, so what is the issue with the speedometer?
 
Ok, so what was the problem that you had to do that whole thing with the adapter for the speedo? I don't understand why it wouldn't be just plug and play, since both cars use the same speed sensor with the same plug, what was the problem?

As for the cable clutch, when I did the swap in my cougar, I really wanted to go with a cable, but there simply wasn't room under the dash for the clutch quadrant to swing. I would have had to do a lot of hacking just for it to physically fit, and then there was the complication that it doesn't bolt to the firewall without extensive modification. Trust me on this one: a hydraulic setup is easier in MN12s. I don't know for sure about the FN10, as I haven't looked up under the dash yet, but since the firewalls are the same, at the very least you would have the problem of having to modify the pedals just to bolt them up before you even get to the problem of clearance for the quadrant to swing.
 
i was just under my dash today installing my pedals i just took the clutch pedal assembaly off of an 01 mustang gt and rewelded it to my original brake pedal assembaly. it looks as if everthing will fit but it is very tight the quadrant is millameters away from the steering shaft but it does clear. the hole in the firewall for the cable will aslo be tight with the brake booster but should fit.
 
The Speedo is "plug and play" IF you have an early T45. Ours has a Magnetic VSS, and would not work correctly with the VIII system without the Dallas Mustang ER Speed-cal

There are NO kits for the Wiring harness. I just re did the whole damned thing last month, and relocated it again to the rear package rack. Don't even consider putting it under the drivers seat. Trust me, I know.

I'm NOW using a 7/8" Willwood MC, and a 7/8" CNC push style slave on a stock fork. This is on a 95 Super coupe pedal assy with the adapter shown on TCCOA.

I hate to be the bringer of bad news, but the FN-10 firewall is different, and does'nt have the dimples for the pedal like the 12 does. In addition to that, the strut towers are completely different. Nothing that is insurmountable, but a PITA none the less.


I'm open to more questions if you have em.
 
So basically I have to figure on an entire day just cutting and soldering wires on my harness to extend it? Is there any way around this, maybe just mount it differently, or remove some bracing from behind the dash or something to avoid that? Its not only the time involved, but that also opens up a ton of possible electrical problems if any of the solder joints break or poke through the heat shrink.
 
Basically yes, And more than a day to keep from getting burned out on it.


There is NO room under the dash for both the Pedal assy, AND the PCM.


I have had NO problem with any of my soldering joints. If your REALLY interested, I'll solder the Harness for you, and won't even rape you on the price.


:)


Mike
 
Just thought i would mention I am about 85-90% done with the swap... but I did go a little different route with the shifter. I'm to the point that i just need to get the transmission slid back into place so I can start building it.

I thought i would mention I had adapters made to use the Wilwood Remote Mount master cylinder for my 98, did a set of 5 since it wasn't that much more than doing 1. I have 3 left if you are interested. This is for the PN 260-6089, the 3/4" bore version.
 
PHRANQUY said:
Just thought i would mention I am about 85-90% done with the swap... but I did go a little different route with the shifter. I'm to the point that i just need to get the transmission slid back into place so I can start building it.

I thought i would mention I had adapters made to use the Wilwood Remote Mount master cylinder for my 98, did a set of 5 since it wasn't that much more than doing 1. I have 3 left if you are interested. This is for the PN 260-6089, the 3/4" bore version.
Click to expand...


thats cool i am almost done too. are you putting a t45 or t56 in? i have a 56 but it seems like everyone else has done with the 45 why? do you guys think 1st gear will be useless with a 56?
 
i think cuz the 45 is cheaper and thats what came in a bird so it "could" be a easier swap. im interested in seeing a 56 cuz ive drove a few cobras, gt500 etc........ and i loved the 6 speed
 
96mark8 said:
thats cool i am almost done too. are you putting a t45 or t56 in? i have a 56 but it seems like everyone else has done with the 45 why? do you guys think 1st gear will be useless with a 56?
Click to expand...

I am doing the T45 right now mainly due to cost. I looked at the T56, and may swap to it next year (Everything I've done will work with a T56 as well), but picked up a T45 for next to nothing out of a wrecked 99 Cobra, and have a spare waiting for a rebuild. Aside from having the adapters made, I think I've kept my budget under $1200.

As far as the T56 goes... at this point in time the first gear would be incredibly short in my car wit hthe 4.10's. Heck, even with the T45 I will be out of 1st gear pretty early. I will probably end up swapping them out to a 3.55 or a 3.73, but I wanted to drive the car first to see how it felt. I'm still undecided on whether I will use a TKO or a T56 in the future though.

I might also mention that I have participated in PDE's up at Brainerd International Raceway with my car, and that is the biggest reason for me going through all the trouble I have.

One question though, when was the T45 available in the Bird?
 
If I were to do it all over again,



I would be using the Tremec 6060 thats in the new GT500's. Remote mount shifter, and 6 gears.

ALSO, I have a spare shifter extension housing I machined out of Billet 6061-T6. I'll let it go for what I have in materials.....35$ Machining is free.

Pharnquy, What is your release system like, Hydraulic throwout, or Hydraulic slave on the stock fork? I'm running a 7/8" Master on a 7/8" slave, and LOVE the weight of the clutch.

I would love to see pictures, and Hopefully we can write our own technical article to suppliment the tccoa version.


Mike
 
I'm using the hydraulic slave like you recomended. My master is a 3/4" compact remote mount due to some issues I could foresee with the line coming out the back(Might just be a Gen2 issue though), but it has a little more throw. My adapters are slightly different (the inside diameter) because of this. I guess I will assume that I have the same slave since they only list the one.

The big difference is I am building a shifter extention similar to the Steeda Triax for the 05+ Mustangs using a TKO 500/600. When I called Tremec with some questions a few months ago they warned to be very cautious about modifying any webbing on the transmission, especially the tailhousing, due to NVH issues. I just needed to elongate the hole in the floor to accomodate this too.

The biggest issue I had was having to make a new hole (or at least eelongate) the wiring harness hole in the firewall as the clutch peddle mounts right over it. The bottom of the master cylinder hole intrudes on the top, so I slid the hole down and made a cover plate to enclose the rest. The easiest (And maybe cleanest looking) way to do this was to mark the hole, drill a few holes in the firewall, and then cut the remainder using a die grinder.

My car was hit by a hail storm the other day, so I won't get to drive it too much before it goes in for paint, but I can't tell you how excited I am to finish this up.

I've been taking lots of pictures though... just gotta get my camera back from a friend.
 
I would definatly like to see what youve got going on with that shifter, Also if you have any pics of your slave mounting system, lemme see it when you get the chance.



Take care,


Mike



P.S. If you get a chance, you should try to make it down for MESPOCKS Boscobel meet to show it off.
 
ok now im questioning myself.......didnt the super coupes have a t45
*edit* open mouth insert foot*
95 thunderbird sc's came with a M5R2 transmission, so why isnt anyone using this since it was used in a similar platform to ours, maybe they are impossible to find dunno?
 
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