lincoln ls turbo

mikepietras04

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Hello, My name is Mike, I am new to this forum, just came across it and just wanted some input on a certain topic. I own a 2001 LS V8 and have always been interested in forced induction on it. I have seen the Special Vehicles LS, and have read nothing but bad news on it. I want to show you my turbo LS and want to know if any of you, or anyone you know has attempted to do something similar. These are pictures of the completed install. I was very happy with the results, and could not believe the power. It was driven like this, under constant tuning for about 3 weeks. Then, unfortunately I fryed the bearing/seals in the CHRA and decided to get a better quality turbo, and find a way to put it in the engine compartment.

Details:
First of all, i'm sure you are wondering why the turbo is located in the rear of the car. This is because of the lack of room in the engine compatment. It was mostly an experimental thing. The largest concern when doing this is obviously pumping the oil back to the engine without creating any backpressure on the CHRA. And yes, the whole assembly DID fit behind the stock bumper cover, with the only major modification being about 3 inches of the aluminum inner bumper being removed on the pass. side.

Garrett T04E Turbo
TiAl Waste-gate and Blow off valve.
Custom plumbing
Zone 5 MAFterburner MAF tuner
5.0 MAF trimmed and polished (off of 2000 explorer)
K&N cone air filter
Autometer cobalt series Air/Fuel, Boost/Vac, Fuel Pressure, Oil Pressure
Meizier electric water pump used for oil pump
Turbo XS man. boost controller
Alot of time and frustration

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Gauges

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Here is the A pillar with the cobalt gauges. Made with expanding foam, and fiberglass. It has been recovered with cloth to match my interior since this photo was taken.

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This was my project for this spring/summer... Last year i was all about looking good, so i did the Trenz Horizontal grill, Lexani Krystal's and a 5000 watt system w/ fiberglass box. I still have the grill, sold the rims, and would like to sell my box as well..it took up way too much trunk space. If anyone is interested in purchasing this box (made only to fit in the LS) and live in the toledo area, please pm me. i will post pictures
 
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Other specs (if anyone cares)

-HID Low beams taken from a 98 lincoln MKVIII
-Trenz Horizontal grill
-Facia above grill painted black to match car
-Rear chrome trim on trunk lid also painted black
-Valentine One with remote display
-Compustar 2WSS-AS Alarm/Starter With pager (shock sensor, window roll up/down, hood/trunk pin, priority unlock, turbo timer, 1-1/4 mile range, ect.)
-Kenwood Excellon 6x8's in doors
-Kenwood Excellon 879 reciever
-Crossfire BMF 10
-Crossifre 602 (x2)
-Crossfire 600D

(4 diamond cm3 10's, crossfire 31 band eq's, crossfire 2000D, and two crossfire 1202's in my old system that came out this year will try to post pictures of the install)
All work and installation done by myself. I am an MECP installer since Jan 2003, and have worked for TAS Electronics in toledo ohio for 2 years.
 
Very cool! I was always under the impression that forced inductin will not work properly on the LS since the PCM has not been cracked. I believe this was always the issue for the SVC car.

Can you give us some detail on how you tuned the engine not to run lean? Did you have to boost fuel pressure and change injectors?

Awesome work. I too would like to see what the performance boost is? Dyno numbs?
 
I have a lot of questions for you:
- how did you handle the high compression ratio of this engine (IIRC 10.5:1)?
- how much boost are you running?
- how do you handle the timing issues?
 
Well, it was all totally new to me (the 3.9 engine that is). First of all, i have access to both the new OTC Genisys scan tool, and the Ford Rotunda tool (aka the "dealer computer"). The OTC scan tool allows me to read information from every sensor in the car, monitor frequencies, voltages, ect. and at the same time graph, and record real time runs. And, as i said, i also have installed a larger MAF sensor, and the MAF tuner program (which allows me to adjust air/fuel in 40rpm increments relevant to Throttle position). If you would like more info on the MAFterburner, go to www.mafterburner.com BUT!, i strongly urge those of you with little knowledge of the 3.9 NOT to use this device! It can cause severe damage that will NOT be covered by warranty. (Note all runs were done with sunoco 94 octane)

Now, with the tuning issue. I was aware of the 10.5:1 compression, and was sure to start out with very LOW boost (3lbs). I started by making low RPM test runs, with a friend in the passenger seat monitoring Air/Fuel, Timing advance, and most importantly the engines two knock sensors. I adjusted the air/fuel accordingly (went on the rich side for safe measures) and increased boost to 5lbs. This time (making the same part throttle run) I paid close attention to the cylinder head temp sensor as well. After getting the proper air/fuel, and making sure temperatures were not exceding the stock base line readings, i took the car out on the expressway. The results were amazing at 5lbs. Unfortunately i never got a G-tech (or similar device) in the vehicle durring runs. But cruising at 60, then punching the gas would rocket you to 80mph in no time, sending your head to the seat rest. Impressed with the results, my friend and i decided to go and get his 2003 Acura RSX Type-S. We had always done little things to our engines (polish throttle, bypass throttle preheat, intake, exhaust, ect) and i knew where i stood head to head with his car. Before the turbo, i would stick with him right up to 60, then he would gradually pull on me until i was a good 5 car lengths behind him. When we went on my first "turbo run" i would choke slightly upon launch (mass air problem), But as soon as 3200RPM hit in 1st, i pulled right next to him, passed him, and watched him in my rearview. We were both totally shocked.
The exhaust sounded awesome coming straight from the turbine. The sound it made spooling up, and the woosh of air from the blow off valve when i would quickly let off the throttle was such a rewarding sound. And you can only imagine the looks i recieved from the kids on the road next to me driving thier civics and neons as i would drive by in an inconspicuous lincoln ls, and let my blow off valve make its distingtive "cracking whip" sound. It was a real head turner.

Now my next step was to do away with the choking during a hard launch. I found that the problem was with the low rpm mass air voltage durring open loop (full throttle). I spent at least an hour on this, and improved it, but really never got it perfect. By now, the only DTC activated was "MAF inconsistant with TPS" which from what i have gathered was due to the MAF frequencie being so off on low rpm. After fixing the graph on the mafterburner program, i cleared the dtc and never saw it again.

The final boost lever i was at before removing the turbo was 7lbs. I had absolutely no problem with over temp, lean conditions, knock, or any other out of perimeter problems. But i was not willing to go any higher than 7psi.

On the e-way one night while doing a test run, i heard a noise that like i had blown a hole in the exhaust manifold. I got off on the nearest exit, pulled over, and popped the hood. Hearing the noise come from the center-lower-rear of the engine, i knew right away it was an egr problem. I drove home taking side streats, and dug into it. It was surprised to see that i had blown the downstream hose on the egr pressure transducer. The hose is reinforced with nylon string! But, after further inspection i noticed the silicone hose had actually started to dry rot from age, and decided to just replace both hoses. Very next morning i orded both hoses from kistler ford in toledo, recieved them that day, and installed both. The hose apparently blew from a combination of ehaust restrictions from the turbine under full load, and the 7psi of boost coming into the intake manifold, and pressurizing the egr valve in the opposite direction. After replacing the hoses, i never had another problem. future plans are to regulate the egr to close after around 3psi of intake boost to prevent this from happening again, while at the same time keeping egr functions the same at lower boost, and crusing rpm. This was the only major engine problem i had encountered.

Shorlty after, like i stated before, i fryed my bearings driving like an idiot, and need to rebuild the turbo. I am planning on devising a way to put the turbo in the engine compartment (around where the stock air box was) and also running a small intercooler. This is turning out to be VERY difficult with such a lack of room. Being that it is summer and i want to be able to drive the car, i am building everything piece by piece until it is ready to be bolted up. I realy have no estimated done time at this point. But i will be sure to post completed pictures and results when i am done. And hopefully this time i can get on a chassis dyno at a shop down the street and get some real tuning in.
Well, im sorry for the long post, but i tryed to touch all bases. If anyone has any other questions, feel free to ask (but dont expect a reply till after 2am my time lol, im a night person)
 
Im sorry, but i jsut noticed two other questions i forgot to answer.
Regarding the fuel delivery. As you may know, the 3.9 has a returnless fuel system. The fuel pressure is voltage modulated according to vacuum and pressure readings from the electronic sender just before the driver side fuel rail. Making an aftermarket fuel pressure regulater useless. After monitoring air/fuel ratios at the stated boost levels, i was sure that the supplied fuel was plenty for my small 7psi of boost. I was able to achieve 45psi of fuel under boost conditions, and was mostly woried about exceding the stock injectors duty cycle. If i were to run higher boost, i would start by replacing my fuel injectors with higher lbpm injectors. But for now, it isnt a concern of mine. I will never exceed 7psi simply due to the fact of high compression.
 
mikepietras04 said:
Im sorry, but i jsut noticed two other questions i forgot to answer.
QUOTE]

Mike,
Thanks for the information, this is a very interesting project.
Concerning relocation for the Turbo, wouldn't a supercharger be an easier installation from a packaging standpoint (no exhaust routing etc)?

Why do you think it is that you have been able to get your turbo to work (I think it is awesome) but no one has done a supercharger?
 
great posts - thanx

so it sounds like you handled all the tuning with air/fuel tweaks.

Did you not have to do anything with spark?

With such a long tube from turbo to intake - was the lag as pressure built huge?
 
Kelleyo said:
mikepietras04 said:
Im sorry, but i jsut noticed two other questions i forgot to answer.
QUOTE]

Mike,
Thanks for the information, this is a very interesting project.
Concerning relocation for the Turbo, wouldn't a supercharger be an easier installation from a packaging standpoint (no exhaust routing etc)?

Why do you think it is that you have been able to get your turbo to work (I think it is awesome) but no one has done a supercharger?

Well, for starters i have always prefered turbo's over supercharges, so that was my deciding factor. But i have considered a supercharger. Either way would be a challenge, whether it is plumbing with the turbo. Or building a bracket and belt drive system for the supercharger.
 
Quik LS said:
great posts - thanx

so it sounds like you handled all the tuning with air/fuel tweaks.

Did you not have to do anything with spark?

With such a long tube from turbo to intake - was the lag as pressure built huge?

Being that i produced absolutely no knock severely over stock specs, spark retard was of no concern. Like i stated the knock sensors and cylinder head temps were carefully noted as well as intake air temp (surprisingly never over 100F at the TB) Unfortunately, if spark did need to be adjusted, there is no way to do so currently on this engine.

Now, as for the charge pipe. Think of it this way. Take the distance from the rear bumper, dirctly to the throttle body.
Now, think of the distance it takes on a stock turbo'd vehicle to go from the turbo, to the front bumpers intercooler, then back to the throttle body.
At most, i have an extra 2 feet.

Now the second advantage i have is that the entire pipe acts as an intercool under the vehicle as it passes through ambient air.
Air that would be passing through an intercooler would have much more restrictions, and pressure losses.
Air inlet temp at the TB never exceeded 100F
Pressures at the manifold matched pressures at the turbo according to seperate guages. (boost gauge conected to TB via disabled PCV port. Second pressure gauge T'd in at the turbo outlet before the wastegate input)
 
Kelleyo: I think the reason no one has been able to successfully produce a supercharged LS is due to the fact that the car wouldnt be stable enough to be a daily driver. I had problems with MAF as i have stated and on a cold engine i would have a very rough idle. I really didnt have enough time to fine tune everything, but it didnt seem like it would ever run perfectly with a mass air system. What i think will need to be done to get the 3.9 to work perfectly with forced induction is the computer codes will have to be cracked, and we need a company to give us a programmer to basically eliminate mass air and run a stand alone fuel/ignition management system. And now that the new LS's use the CAN software, those guys are in a whole other world.
 
mikepietras04 said:
system. And now that the new LS's use the CAN software, those guys are in a whole other world.
Is the CAN system for the 03's and newer?

Is the CAN easier or harder to deal with?

Thanks....
 
Kelleyo said:
Is the CAN system for the 03's and newer?

Is the CAN easier or harder to deal with?

Thanks....
yes - 03+ and it is not easier to deal with. less attractive to tuners since the sales of the LS have really dropped off since 02.

but - hope - the many of the 05's are using the CAN and should bring the aftermarket.
 
Kelleyo said:
Is the CAN system for the 03's and newer?

Is the CAN easier or harder to deal with?

Thanks....

Yes, it is 03 and newer. I havent had much work time on the CAN software, but it is definately more intricate. Throttle controls, for one thing, are much more complex now with drive by wire.
 
bringing up an old thread.. any idea what happened with the turbo idea?
 
Awesome thread...I have a Turbo Buick this sounds AWESOME...I'd love to have 2 turbo vehicles.
 

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