Hydraulic Fan Diagnostic

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keystoneaz

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Just replaced the AC system on my 01 Lincoln ls and discovered after putting it back together that the hydraulic fan is not working.
Don't know if it was working before I disassembled it. I removed the radiator assembly and disconnected the fan from the hydraulis lines so I think that there may be air in the system. Does anyone know the procedure for bleeding air from the system.
 
Hydraulic Cooling Fan System Filling and Bleeding

Special Tool(s) Vacuum Tester
014-R1054 or equivalent

Material Item Specification
Motorcraft MERCON® Multi-Purpose (ATF) Transmission Fluid
XT-2-QDX or equivalent MERCON®

NOTE: It is not uncommon to repeat this procedure three times.

Fill the hydraulic cooling fan reservoir to the MAX level.
Use Motorcraft MERCON® Multi-Purpose (ATF) Transmission Fluid.
Apply vacuum for two to three minutes.
Remove the vacuum pump.

Start the engine and turn the A/C on MAX. This will run the hydraulic fan. If a whining noise is heard, repeat the procedure.

GOOD LUCK
 
No Luck on Vacuum bleed

I tried using vacuum on the reservoir bottle as instructed with the engine off. Started engine but no luck with the fan turning. I then tried applying vacuum while the engine was running and the AC on full and I got some whining coming from the pump and a little movement on the fan. Tried several times but problem still exists. I am starting to lean towards an issue with the pump or the valve that controls the hydraulic flow. Any suggestions?
 
I've installed an electric fan (the hydraulic is still there). But while trouble shooting the hydraulic fan (it would not go on high), I found that the fan would go on high if 12 volts were applied to the hydraulic solenoid on the fan pump. Checking the voltage of the wires going to the valve showed 12V when the ac was on but apparently not enough current to pull the valve. I didn't have time to go beyond this, so installed an electric fan in front of the radiator (relocating the horns).

I would suggest applying 12 volts to the valve while trying to bleed the system and see if the fan works.

Someday I'll add a relay or transistor between the fan controller and the solenoid valve to see if that will allow the hydraulic fan to work correctly.
 
I agree, the solenoid would be the most likely candidate to cause the problem.

I read several posts from other members that replaced the solenoid so I'll go back and read them and see if it doesn't resolve the problem. The electric fan seems like a good alternative since Lincoln went to it in later models but I am hell bent on fixing the hydraulic fan just on principal.

I just wish I would have noticed the fan issue before I replaced the AC components, it would have saved me a lot of work repairing is at the same time.
 
For starters , I believe it is air bound reason being that whinning sound from the pump is air in the system , now if my memorary serves me right this pump also supplies pressure for the power sreering , so I would wind the steering wheel fully clockwise and then counter clockwise , several times , shut it down , check the level , you should notich getting better , at least that is what I did when I replaced my compressor , this doesn't go away instantly , Frank
 
joegr is correct

there is no connection between the steering pump and the fan pump. I'm on my fourth fan pump and third fan motor now (01V6). If your fan motor fails then fan will not turn, if the pump fails the fan will not turn, if the solenoid fails the fan will turn in slow speed only. If you turn on the a/c and the fan does not go to high speed, only low speed, i would suspect the solenoid. I would change that first as it is the least costly item to replace. Check for fluid loss around the pump main seal, these things seem to blow out as it gets older. Better yet, if you want to keep the car, change to an electric fan.
 
Took fan motor apart today and discovered the needle keyway that drives the fan blade is broken. Does anyone have an old fan motor laying around from a 2001 3.9 v8 that may still have a good needle keyway in the gear assy.
 
Joegr quote I don't think so .....


tireman joegr is correct

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
there is no connection between the steering pump and the fan pump. I'm on my fourth fan pump and third fan motor now (01V6). If your fan motor fails then fan will not turn, if the pump fails the fan will not turn, if the solenoid fails the fan will turn in slow speed only. If you turn on the a/c and the fan does not go to high speed, only low speed, i would suspect the solenoid. I would change that first as it is the least costly item to replace. Check for fluid loss around the pump main seal, these things seem to blow out as it gets older. Better yet, if you want to keep the car, change to an electric fan.


You may be correct , because I have a v-8 , I am not in a location now that I can check my car , but I do believe that on an 01 ls v-8 , it is driven off the power steering pump , and again I can;t check it right now but when I get home I will ALSO kindly read thie please , I may be old but I haven't hit the CRAZY mark yet , so who is right ?

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Lincoln-Mercury-Repair-820/Cost-replace-cooling-fan.htm
 
Frank T said:
Joegr quote I don't think so .....


tireman joegr is correct

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
there is no connection between the steering pump and the fan pump. I'm on my fourth fan pump and third fan motor now (01V6). If your fan motor fails then fan will not turn, if the pump fails the fan will not turn, if the solenoid fails the fan will turn in slow speed only. If you turn on the a/c and the fan does not go to high speed, only low speed, i would suspect the solenoid. I would change that first as it is the least costly item to replace. Check for fluid loss around the pump main seal, these things seem to blow out as it gets older. Better yet, if you want to keep the car, change to an electric fan.


You may be correct , because I have a v-8 , I am not in a location now that I can check my car , but I do believe that on an 01 ls v-8 , it is driven off the power steering pump , and again I can;t check it right now but when I get home I will ALSO kindly read thie please , I may be old but I haven't hit the CRAZY mark yet , so who is right ?

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Lincoln-Mercury-Repair-820/Cost-replace-cooling-fan.htm
Click to expand...

Okay, so maybe I was a little too indirect.

The hydraulic fan on the gen I LS, V6 and V8, is not driven by the power steering pump. It has it's own independent pump.

The need to control the pressure to the steering and to the fan independently makes it impractical to combine the two systems. (I have seen the power steering pump used to provide boost for the brakes on diesel cars and trucks, but steering and braking loads are similar unlike steering and fan loads.)
 
keystoneaz said:
Took fan motor apart today and discovered the needle keyway that drives the fan blade is broken. Does anyone have an old fan motor laying around from a 2001 3.9 v8 that may still have a good needle keyway in the gear assy.
Click to expand...

I have a fan motor from my 2002 LS V8 parts car I'll sell to you for $ 55 including shipping. PM your email address if you're interested and I'll send you pics if you wish.
 
tireman said:
there is no connection between the steering pump and the fan pump. I'm on my fourth fan pump and third fan motor now (01V6). If your fan motor fails then fan will not turn, if the pump fails the fan will not turn, if the solenoid fails the fan will turn in slow speed only. If you turn on the a/c and the fan does not go to high speed, only low speed, i would suspect the solenoid. I would change that first as it is the least costly item to replace. Check for fluid loss around the pump main seal, these things seem to blow out as it gets older. Better yet, if you want to keep the car, change to an electric fan.
Click to expand...

All true, but I found (on mine at least), the fan turns slow and does not go into high when the ac is turned on. Yet if I supply 12V to one side of the solenoid and ground to the other the fan goes into high (I can even hear the solenoid click if I do this when the engine is off).

Checking the plug going to the solenoid I get 12V across the terminals when the ac is turned on.

The only thing I can think of is the 12 Volts supplied by the car computer has a high resistance preventing enough current from flowing to pull in the solenoid valve.
 
pragmatic said:
...hing I can think of is the 12 Volts supplied by the car computer has a high resistance preventing enough current from flowing to pull in the solenoid valve.
Click to expand...

That's what that would have to be. It's possible that the high resistance is at the fan solenoid connector itself (harness side, not solenoid side). It's also possible that the transistor inside the PCM that powers the fan solenoid has partially failed.
 
Have you came to a resolve with this yet? My daughters is acting exactly the same way. Reading 12 volts going to solenoid. Replaced solenoid thinking it had to be that. Nope, notta still no high. Bled it several times. No noise coming from fan so I assume its bled. Next will try and supply 12 volts to the wires and see how that does. If u come up with a resolution please keep us informed. Thanks

Also thing of note my fan after filling it for the first time did not make any weird noises was quite from the get go. Should that be alarming? I did undo the lines so I would assume air got in there.
 
pragmatic said:
The only thing I can think of is the 12 Volts supplied by the car computer has a high resistance preventing enough current from flowing to pull in the solenoid valve.
Click to expand...

If you have access to an oscilloscope, you can probe the signal pretty easily. One wire should be +12 in run, the other is switched to ground to create a PWM signal.

There may be wire damage somewhere, although I do wonder if a partially-stuck solenoid could still cause these symptoms. If nothing else, I think it's quicker and easier to swap the solenoid than try to debug the harness.
 
So if the solenoid is bad and everything else is good the fan should at least turn slowly when idling correct? I just picked up a 02 v6 LS fan no worky, no leaks. My guess is bad fan pump,cause I am not seeing any fluid movement in resovoir.
 
Well I got lucky picked up a 02 LS for $2k with a a bad fan, but dealer had quoted something line 2800$ to customer. all it was, was a sheared off roll pin inside the fan motor, pulled 4 bolts and put a new roll pin put back in car and now I have a fan that works, feels good to outsmart a stealership. and to fix it for next to nothing, i was already to shill out 365$ for a new fan.
 
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