My brother is looking at squeezing a bit more out of his 04 T Bird but the cars were so low production there are no parts to be had. Are there some basic mods people are doing to their LS? I have seen a catback and a couple of CAI options? What about the exhaust off the Jag S Type R? The motor is already highly tuned so he understands more than 20-30hp without forced induction is dreaming. Any ideas?
How to get more power out of the LS V-8?
- Thread starter nuck
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joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
There's no "chip" for the LS PCM. The things that are advertised as "chips" are just rip-offs that are really only resistors that temporarily increase fuel mixture by making the PCM think that the air temperature is lower.
You can get a FLASH tuner that will allow you to make minor improvements.
hite337
Hite Performance
hite337
Hite Performance
The t-bird guys come here to ask about mods because they aren't allowed to mod their t-birds on their forum. Unless its white wall tires.....
Welcome to LVC. Read the stickies and mod that bird
Welcome to LVC. Read the stickies and mod that bird
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
The AJ engine is as amenable to modification as any other internal combustion engine. The problem, if there is one, is that there are few on-the-shelf parts available. You must go to custom manufacturers.
With that understood, anything that helps get more air into the engine will help it make more power. As a generality, look at what hot rodders did to the flathead Ford engine and do the same general things. They all help make incremental improvements.
Without a doubt, the greatest result for dollar spent would be to install a nitrous oxide system. I've had excellent results from NX components. See 'Land Speed LS' in the HP section.
Turbocharging is another entirely viable option. Stay tuned!
KS
With that understood, anything that helps get more air into the engine will help it make more power. As a generality, look at what hot rodders did to the flathead Ford engine and do the same general things. They all help make incremental improvements.
Without a doubt, the greatest result for dollar spent would be to install a nitrous oxide system. I've had excellent results from NX components. See 'Land Speed LS' in the HP section.
Turbocharging is another entirely viable option. Stay tuned!
KS
Deaconblue
Well-Known LVC Member
The Gen II V8 engine is fairly well optimized from the factory. A few things that can be done is a CAI like the K&N #57-2562. Long tube headers are just a nightmare on the V8 engines in the DEW98 chassis - just not enough room. Magnaflow offers high flow cat assembly for the 3.9L V8 in the LS - not sure about the Thunderbird. Then these is a cat back exhaust - more of a subjective sound things than a real power gain. The other thing is as mentioned about, a re-flash or dyno tune for either for 91 or 93 octane fuel. The key is getting the WOT fuel map dialed in (say no richer than say 12.7:1 via wideband O2 feed back) and well as optimizing the spark map based on the fuel octane.
Other than that you are basically taking power adders or swapping in one of the larger cubic inch Jaguar members of the V8 engine family - both of which just opens up a whole new can of worms and drains your cash that much faster.
Other than that you are basically taking power adders or swapping in one of the larger cubic inch Jaguar members of the V8 engine family - both of which just opens up a whole new can of worms and drains your cash that much faster.
The LS already has a high-flow catalytic converter, according to the Magnaflow flow techs who used my LS to prototype their cat-back system. Magnaflow dynoed 15HP with the cat-back for the 1st Gen LS. The LS is already optimized for 91+ octane (check the OM or fuel filler door).
Unless one's pockets are bottomless an engine swap is totally impracticable. It's cheaper to buy a car that already has the power one wants.
Deaconblue
Well-Known LVC Member
Not quite. The factory fuel and spark maps are "safe and compromised" for both the engine, the cats and the emissions warranty for use with 91 octane fuel - they are not fully optimized. Only an individual vehicle dyno tune will result in a fully optimized spark and fuel map setup for an specific octane fuel. There is a difference - I have been doing this for 30 years and I know from experience.
Upstairs Chris
Dedicated LVC Member
Sell it.
1LoudLS
Dedicated LVC Member
this is by far the option to go with for the best results...
bighaas
New LVC Member
having thee cam ground down by a machine shop will increase the lift by extending the rockers i believe they are self adjusting ive seen guys do it plenty of times on modular motors you just dont want to cut them too much then you really dont have a cam at all
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
You believe wrong, and the 3.9 is not a Ford modular motor.
Valve clearance is adjusted by adding or subtracting shims. There is no self compensation, hydraulic or otherwise.
I agree. I'm a Corvette guy so that's what I have done but he wouldn't touch a Vette or a Shelby. If you want the retro styling and rarity of the late Thunderbird there isn't really a simple option to move into. Maybe some kind of restomod but for that money he could probably find a wrecked S Type R and make his own unique vehicle. I was on a Jag site reading about guys swapping a Ford 3.0 in to replace blown Jag engines and not even having to change the ECM. The 3.9 V8 is the exact same displacement as the Jag 4.0 so it might not be as complex as some people think. He doesn't need another 100+hp though so maybe its just a catback and a CAI and dyno tune. Thanks for the responses!
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
Please do note that the 3.0 V6 used by Jaguar (for a while) was a Ford 3.0 V6 engine, so a swap there should go smoothly.
As for the 3.9 V8, it depends on the generation. For example, the 2nd gen 3.9 has variable intake valve timing. The 2nd gen 4.2 has stepped intake and exhaust valve timing. I don't think you could effectively swap PCMs in that case.
1LoudLS
Dedicated LVC Member
thats not really how it works, grinding your cam down further would not get you anymore lift. you get your lift from the raised spot on the lobe. the raised spot on the lobe is what actually open the valve (either directly, or via pushrods/rocker arms), grinding it down would only make the duration less or the valve get pushed open less.
Deaconblue
Well-Known LVC Member
You generate more lift and/or duration when you reground the camshafts lobes by first reducing the base circle of the lobe itself. You have to make up the distance lost by typically inserting spacer caps on the ends of the valves. Done that several times with the help of someone like Colt or Web Cams on direct action DOHC engines with bucket followers and shim adjustment. My last one was with a Yamaha produced DOHC V6 engine in an older Taurus SHO.
Read about it here;
http://www.shonutperformance.com/SHONUTCams.htm
Read about it here;
http://www.shonutperformance.com/SHONUTCams.htm
Telco
Dedicated LVC Member
Why not just order a cam ground to the spec you want to begin with? Comp Cams, as well as others, will grind custom camshafts to your specifications. Then you don't have to worry about spacers or weakened base circles. The OEMs don't add any more weight than they have to on the valve train than they have to because a heavier valve train takes more HP to spin so I'd be leery about a cam with a weakened base circle. It may be fine, it may twist under hard power, it may snap. Me, I'd rather not take the chance.
1LoudLS
Dedicated LVC Member
couldn't agree more...
Deaconblue
Well-Known LVC Member
ONLY if there are blank cores available to grind in the first place - plus we are talking about four camshaft here folks. Most of the time there simply are not any low volume camshaft cores to cover oddball non performance applications like ours, so your only choice is to have the OEM factory camshafts analyzed and then reground.
Deaconblue
Well-Known LVC Member
If you are seriously thinking about camshafts for the AJ30-AJ35 3.9L V8, then you may want to do a little home work on the specification of camshafts that were used in the Jaguar / Ranger Rover AJ-V8 4.0/4.2/4.4L sizes of the AJ engine family so see if any of those could be swapped in and if they would offer any performance upgrade potential.
But guys we are going way out on a limb here anyways with crazy expensive normally aspirated performance modifications that none here in their right mind would make. It would be way simpler / easier to just buy a Jaguar S-Type R or XF sedan or XKR coupe with the 4.2L supercharged AJ34S engine and be done with it.
But guys we are going way out on a limb here anyways with crazy expensive normally aspirated performance modifications that none here in their right mind would make. It would be way simpler / easier to just buy a Jaguar S-Type R or XF sedan or XKR coupe with the 4.2L supercharged AJ34S engine and be done with it.
Telco
Dedicated LVC Member
There's really not that many different ways to get more power out of the Lincoln AJ engine. I don't know just how deep you can program this car with the SCT software, but if you can alter displacement or the fuel/air and timing map then your options open up. You can put in a larger displacement AJ engine, put in a different engine altogether if the new engine is modified to use the AJ engine sensors, you can even put a turbocharger or supercharger on it provided you can decrease compression enough to actually make use of it with something less than Avgas. Even just changing the cams on the AJ engine isn't going to make enough of a difference to be really noticeable unless the computer can be altered to use the new cams effectively. But, if the SCT software just does fixed maps that they send you and won't let you tune it, then you're out of luck. Someone really interested in this might contact this Torrie fellow that's talked about on this board as being an LS tuner to find out what he can do along these lines. About the only other thing you might do is put in an engine with a different computer that does let you alter it (the infamous LS powered LS comes to mind) IF you either piggyback the LS computer onto the engine computer's outputs OR double up the sensors to keep the LS computer happy where the auxiliary systems are involved. Otherwise you get that other LS powered LS's same problems with the air conditioner and ABS not working. The LS computer is totally tunable using either Tunercat of EFI Live software, either of which is an excellent product. I use EFI Live on my Chevy products, and it does allow total tuning. I can do things that even the dealer can't do with it.
It's a lot of hard work, but if someone really, really wants it they can make it happen.
It's a lot of hard work, but if someone really, really wants it they can make it happen.
1LoudLS
Dedicated LVC Member
the SCT handheld devices will just load either the tunes that came on it or the tunes that somebody made for you. however the software that actually does the tuning is just that, tuning software. you can change whatever parameters you need to.
1LoudLS
Dedicated LVC Member
which is exactly why when somebody ask what can be done to make the LS faster, the most common answer is a for sale sign!