GOP Candidates Back Off From Signing Pledge that Praises Slavery

shagdrum said:
assumes materialism

show me anything beyond the material.
otherwise, it's not the assumption. supernatural is.

shagdrum said:
there is NO justification for the standard of empirical judgement that you constantly attempt to confine the debate to

never said it had to be empirical. just not assumption or myth. come on now, you should be able to find something. people have always interacted with the higher powers in the myths. if it's real, it should be a piece of cake to come up with anything.
 
show me anything beyond the material.
otherwise, it's not the assumption. supernatural is.

First; showing things "beyond the material" has been done numerous times on this forum alone and among countless thinkers going back for centuries (Plato's allegory of the cave, Descartes evil genius hypothetical, etc, etc).

It is more then a little presumptuous to dismiss all that.

Ideas are immaterial.

The mind is immaterial (the mind is different from the brain).

Personality is immaterial.

Rights are immaterial.

ALL this things have been pointed out countless times on this forum and you keep ignoring them.

Second; your standard of judgement is, as usual, one sided. We all know you will never accept logical proof, only empirical (hence the demand to be "shown" something). So your statement is circular and meaningless. Whether or not anything can be "shown" beyond the physical is irrelevant. That does not prove materialism in any way.

Also, your continued misrepresentation of materialism vs supernatural shows a profound misunderstanding of what materialism is. How can you defend an idea that you don't understand? Inversely, how can you reject a critique that you don't understand? That sure seems like a dogmatic reaction to "heresy" against your faith...

never said it had to be empirical.

No, you just imply it in every statement you make.
 
Ideas are immaterial.

The mind is immaterial (the mind is different from the brain).

Personality is immaterial.

Rights are immaterial.

you prove my point. all these things are CREATED by a biological entity. just as superstitious myth is. although that was an interesting effort.
 
How do you know those things are created by a biological entity? There is no way to know that unless, once again, you assume materialism. Circular reasoning.

Did you read the links in my last post?

Does nothing exist independent of the brain? Plato thought certain Ideas existed indepent of the brain and were only discovered by it. Locke and many other thinkers (including the Framers) felt the same way about Natural Rights and Natural Law, among other things. Descartes felt the mind itself was independent from the brain.

Again you need to prove logical proof that all these things are only reflections of biology. Assumptions are not logical proof and logical proof will not, in any way, assume materialism in the response. ALL assumptions need to be justified.

If you cannot provide that logical proof, you are going on faith.
 

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