Giffords had history with Palin, Tea Party

So when people lie and manipulates a tragedy to to smear you personally as well as the worldview you subscribe to that is fine, even if it results in death threats to you and your family. But calling them on it; making an attempt to defend yourself, in any way, is inappropriate?! :rolleyes:

She can defend herself without creating new controversy for the media to chew on.
But it's good that she manages to put her foot in her mouth defending herself.
Equating this with blood libel is a grotesque defence out of proportion to the assault.
Obama gets death threats all the time too.
 
Doesn't mean that he did not go in with a political agenda, that he didn't have a good idea of what was going to be talked about and knew his responses beforehand. That is rather typical of politics at this level.

Well it's not Glee Club :D:D:D

What did you think a bunch of politicians were going to talk about at a political retreat, the weather??

Oh and he's not supposed to be well informed and able to juggle all this stuff in his head.

Compare that to Palin's Couric interview where she was unprepared and couldn't answer a simple question honestly.

Is that what impresses you in a leader?
If she doesn't read any periodicals she should have just said so instead of lying and looking like a deer caught in the headlights..

For a smart guy you're really grasping at straws on this one.:p
 
If she can't handle this better than creating more uneeded controversy and playing a victim then how will she do in a real crisis?

That is the key, and is painfully obvious.
The video looks like it was made in a war bunker.
 
Palin Derangement Syndrome on full display. Not matter what she does, it is "stupid" or "underhanded" or "hateful" or what ever other excuse can be used to demonize her. Any and all rationalizations, no matter how absurd, are considered legitimate. :rolleyes:
 
Maybe your comment was directed at Ari Fleischer....

“The strongest way to rise above would have been to talk about suffering, tragedy, hope, strength and recovery,” said former Bush press secretary Ari Fleischer. “Instead, she followed the more conventional political route and made it about herself rather than the victims.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47543.html#ixzz1AxE3gphX
 
Of course you didn't SAY anything about comparing them.

You just framed the issue is such a way that comparing them is inevitable. Again this is an attempt to manipulate which I will not humor. If you can't discuss things honestly then you are only contributing to the incivility in discourse.

Why can't you say what you liked about Palin's speech - I am very interested. Once again - I have difficultly looking at it beyond the obvious flaws that I see - as I stated above. I would like to see why you think it was a 'successful' speech Shag -

I am being honest. I stated earlier that I thought her speech writers and handlers should be fired, and why. So, professionally, you know my opinion of the speech. But what about is appealing? Why do you think it 'clicked off the points' that this speech was intended to make?
 
Not so much. Haven't seen enough to know if it applies to you.

OK you must mean 04SCTLS, such a waste of a high IQ :p j/k

Palin had a opportunity and the ball was dropped.

Tim Pawlenty has just pushed himself away from Palin while he was on book tour.

Meanwhile Michele bachmann's camp has wisely been hush hush.

It seems to me she is on a island now.
 
Palin had a opportunity and the ball was dropped.

That cannot be determined yet.

People are always quick to pronounce any action Palin takes as absurdly foolish, but then live to regret it quite often. Krugman condemned her comments about death panels but then a year later was arguing that the economics of healthcare under this bill necessitate death panels.

Her opponents who control the MSM, academia, the political elite and the entertainment industry constantly underestimate her. They did the same with Bush and with Reagan (both of whom were considered "dumb" by the "elites").

Of course, the notion of these Conservatives having any intelligence to speak of is absurd and offensive to their world view and their own sense of enlightened superiority, so they cannot even consider the notion that they might be wrong about these people.

While the political class wants to brand Palin's actions as a failure, only time will ultimately tell whether this is true (though these people will NEVER admit her actions were successful, regardless of the evidence).

Remember, deciet is in haste but honesty can wait a fair leisure.

These attempts to brand Palin's comments as unnecessary and destructive are being very hastily made by people incapable of seeing anything good in Palin.
 
OK you must mean 04SCTLS, such a waste of a high IQ :p j/k

Palin had a opportunity and the ball was dropped.

Tim Pawlenty has just pushed himself away from Palin while he was on book tour.

Meanwhile Michele bachmann's camp has wisely been hush hush.

It seems to me she is on a island now.

Palin is not shag's choice for the nomination but he is loathe to criticise her in any way because that would be betraying his side.
He can't even come up with Palin's wisdom or his opinion of her speech.
Pride over virtue.
Some things never change.
 
People are always quick to pronounce any action Palin takes as absurdly foolish, but then live to regret it quite often. Krugman condemned her comments about death panels but then a year later was arguing that the economics of healthcare under this bill necessitate death panels.

Death's inevitable and so are death panels.
They already exist.
It's hypocritical to suddenly seem to discover that.
Currently instead of government bureaucrats we have insurance company
executives making decisions about how much money is reasonable for what.
Since at some point money ceases to be effective in preserving life someone has to decide what that point is.
 
These attempts to brand Palin's comments as unnecessary and destructive are being very hastily made by people incapable of seeing anything good in Palin.

She took 4 days to have a speech professionally written for her which she read off of a teleprompter but didn't think of the baggage associated with blood libel.
She thinks blood libel is the right superlative to hurl at her enemies but her seeming to speak above her level has overshadowed the rest of her message.
Or maybe she just didn't think about the term blood libel enough to substitute something less too clever like scurrilous slur or cruel smear instead while calling for calm and solomnence.
 
I do like the fact you can see the teleprompter in her glasses.... Another misstep by her handlers - they really need to be fired.

How things change - Obama reading his speech from a printed copy on the podium, and Palin reading from a teleprompter.

The whole blood libel thing just seems odd to me - part of the 'confusing' part I alluded to earlier. It wasn't really incorrect, just very out of place. I actually attributed it to the fact that Beck used it earlier this week. It is such an unusual reference, and that was really the only reason I could see for her to use it.
 
Talk about your supposed "IQ" all you want, your continued Palin bashing yourself to be a petty, ignorant fool. There is no chance of dialog with your ego and axe grinding getting in the way

Hmmm
More name calling.
Did you score less than 130 on the facebook IQ test you boasted of taking?:p
 
Media meme o’ the day: Obama’s speech was much more presidential than Palin’s
by Allahpundit

This is a useful way to wrap up (hopefully) the coverage of Our National Conversation On Rhetoric as it’s a stark example of how easily the propaganda about Palin’s culpability in the shootings was accepted as a political fact of life. There are two ways a reporter could address yesterday’s oratorical bookends by her and Obama. One: “Hey, isn’t it insane that Palin had to give this speech? People don’t normally have to point out that they’re not responsible for a mass murder that they’re not linked to in any way, do they?” Call that the “reality-based” approach. Two: “How silly of Palin to set up an unfavorable contrast with Obama by giving a defensive speech on a day when he’s pushing uplift. Don’t her advisors know anything about ‘messaging’?” We’ll call that the “you’re badly missing the point” take. It’s true as far as it goes — Palin’s team should have anticipated that some viewers will naturally compare her tone to his, notwithstanding the two speeches’ dramatically different circumstances — but it’s also utterly banal and lazy. What’s a more constructive use of a political reporter’s time — pointing out to his audience the eminently apparent fact that, yes indeed, Palin’s tone doesn’t compare favorably to Obama’s in this case? Or pointing out, in case they’re not aware, that that might be because she had to respond to an endless Orwellian smear tying her to a homicidal lunatic? Accuse The One of complicity in mass murder and, I assure you, his reaction won’t be sunshine and candy canes either.

The “badly missing the point” take is what I was getting at in goofing on Politico yesterday. For political media, whether any facts exist that link the right to Loughner is more or less immaterial; what matters is that the left’s narrative of tying the right to Loughner exists and, as such, it’s a fact of political life that should be assimilated and covered like any other. Obama’s eulogizing the victims of a shooting and Palin’s defending herself from the repulsive charge that she’s somehow responsible for the body count, but since they both spoke on the same day, well, that’s good enough for a moronic superficial horserace-type comparison. Politico:
At sunrise in the East on Wednesday, Sarah Palin demonstrated that she has little interest — or capacity — in moving beyond her brand of grievance-based politics. And at sundown in the West, Barack Obama reminded even his critics of his ability to rally disparate Americans around a message of reconciliation…

The former Alaska governor has a knack for supplying rhetoric that will delight her supporters, send her critics howling and invariably create a frenzy of coverage. But her response suggests she is capable of hitting just that one note…

But for much of the eight-minute talk she was defensive and showed little interest in doing anything other than channeling the understandable resentment of her ideological kinsmen over the blame-casting. And that won’t appeal much to a political center that — even while they may not think Palin is in any way responsible for Tucson — preferred more conciliation even before the jarring attempted assassination of a member of Congress.​
A homework assignment for aspiring speechwriters: Try to write an address titled “I Didn’t Kill Anyone” without sounding aggrieved. More from the Times:
Ms. Palin’s decision to post the video on the Internet on Wednesday morning all but invited comparisons to the president’s previously announced appearance at the memorial service for those slain in Arizona.

And her choice of words — most notably the accusation that her critics were guilty of “blood libel” for the things they have said about her — made it impossible to ignore the video as merely another statement from a politician…

[W]hat could not have been more different was the tone. Where Ms. Palin was direct and forceful, Mr. Obama was soft and restrained. Where Ms. Palin was accusatory, Mr. Obama appeared to go out of his way to avoid pointing fingers or assigning blame. Where she stressed the importance of fighting for our different beliefs, he emphasized our need for unity, referring to the “American family — 300 million strong.”​
Nowhere in the piece does the Times explain precisely what “things they have said about her.” If you read it without knowing the backstory of the past several days and the left’s obsession with her crosshairs map, you might think Palin had posted a video to eulogize the victims and then inexplicably launched into a tirade against the media halfway through based on old grievances, like the Couric interview. The closest it comes to filling the reader in is to quote her denouncing “mindless finger-pointing we endured in the wake of the tragedy.”

And on we go. Here’s some refreshing candor from Lloyd Grove: Yes, it’s unfair to compare the two speeches — but why should that stop us?
The prematurely retired Alaska governor had to serve up her remarks, really a litany of complaints against her critics and political adversaries, while seated in front of a non-working stone fireplace, apparently at her home in Wasilla—a claustrophobic setting framed by an outsize American flag.

The president got to deliver his affecting half-hour of heartfelt reflection and soulful inspiration—repeatedly interrupted by standing ovations—to an arena at the University of Arizona filled to the rafters with 14,000 mourners, notably members of his Cabinet and the Supreme Court, the governor of Arizona, the astronaut-husband of wounded Rep. Gabby Giffords, the heroes who risked their own lives to save others, the doctors and nurses who tended the injured and bleeding, and the friends and families of the six people, including a 9-year-old girl, who were killed by a gun-wielding maniac Saturday morning at a shopping center.

“At the end of the day, after listening to the president, we’ll know why he’s president and she never will be,” said Robert Shrum.​
To the speechwriters: For extra credit on your assignment, figure out a “presidential” way to explore the theme, “I Didn’t Beam Homicidal Mind Control Rays into that Crazed Gunman’s Brain.” The big joke here, of course, is that the only “presidential” way Palin could have handled this — according to the media, I mean — would be to simply let this whole thing slide. That’s what presidents do, right? Thick skin, stiff upper lip, even when their enemies are being terribly unfair to them. When it comes to politics, that’s business as usual. My point this week, though, and Ace’s point at his site, has been that this episode isn’t business as usual. This isn’t some standard “Palin’s using rhetorical dog whistles for her Christian base!” attack. This is a congresswoman bleeding out of her head on the sidewalk with six bodies lying around her, one of them a little girl, and Palin being blamed for it instantly. And yet according to Keith Ellison, the proper response here should have been to validate that accusation by implication by saying, gee, yeah, I guess I should have toned it down. I’m not known for being a Palin fan (as, er, any actual Palin fan could tell you) and even I can’t contain my indignation at the charge. And yet she’s supposed to just mellow out and take it because political reporters who won’t flatly correct the record for their readers think it’s bad “optics” to do otherwise?
Unbelievable.
 
It is telling to watch all the rhetorical contortions these nuts are making to find some way to blame Palin for this. Anything she does, regardless of circumstances, is wrong, inappropriate and/or stupid before she does it. Context is irrelevant, basic decency is irrelevant. She is "evil" and evil is to be fought by any means necessary.

The Left has to have it's targets of derision and those too ignorant and/or arrogant to actually apply a little critical thought wind up showing themselves for the useful idiots they truly are.

In ginning up hatred and resentment to this degree, the left is playing with fire, as these tweet posts so aptly demonstrate. What happens when they lose control of the fire...
Yesterday, Governor Sarah Palin delivered a video address on the mess in Arizona. For a week, the left has blamed Palin, not Loughner, for the shooting. Then they attacked her for not responding. Then they attacked her for her response and using the phrase “blood libel,” a perfectly legitimately use of it given what she and the right have been subjected to this week.

But the left pounced.

All week long, the left has said Jared Loughner was persuaded to try to kill Congresswoman Giffords because of right-wing hate. We know that was not true. But here is what else I am sure of.

Out there somewhere is someone who would love to kill Governor Palin. God forbid they do it. But you and I both know there is some crazy MSNBC watcher and Media Matters reader who even now is dreaming of doing so.

And should they try, we can be equally sure of something else. The left will be divided into two camps: (1) bitch deserved it and (2) not my fault.

It is unfortunate. I hope it never happens. But you and I both know the reality in which we live.​
 
Shag, am I to take it that you agree with Allahpundit's view of Palin's speech?

The Left has to have it's targets of derision and those too ignorant and/or arrogant to actually apply a little critical thought wind up showing themselves for the useful idiots they truly are.

Does only the left have targets of derision? Are there no useful idiots on the right?
 
It is amazing to watch all the rhetorical contortions these nuts are making to find some way to blame Palin for this. Anything she does, regardless of circumstances, is wrong, inappropriate and/or stupid before she does it. Context is irrelevant, basic decency is irrelevant. She is "evil" and evil is to be fought by any means necessary.

The Left has to have it's targets of derision and those too ignorant and/or arrogant to actually apply a little critical thought wind up showing themselves for the useful idiots they truly are.

How can something be inappropriate before
she does it?
The media didn't advise her to use blood libel.
She's going on Hannity on monday to explain her
self inflicted damage.
You're the one getting emotional now.
And she's not even your pick for the nomination.
So electing Palin is the smart thing to do?
Paradise Lost?
Romney, Huckabee and Gingrich haven't gotten themselves dragged
into this.
The public will decide but for her the undecideds are 5% which means
that to win she has to convince people who already don't like her to change
their minds.
With her latest performance that doesn't give her much chance to be a serious contender.
 
Does only the left have targets of derision? Are there no useful idiots on the right?

It is a function of the rhetoric surrounding all Leftist ideology.

Social justice through collectivism demands tricking people into giving up liberties in the name of envy and resentment. There has to be objects of envy and resentment for that emotional appeal to be persuasive and that rhetoric easily gets extended from capitalists and the rich to politicians and political agendas that get in the way of equalization.
 
It is a function of the rhetoric surrounding all Leftist ideology.

Social justice through collectivism demands tricking people into giving up liberties in the name of envy and resentment. There has to be objects of envy and resentment for that emotional appeal to be persuasive and that rhetoric easily gets extended from capitalists and the rich to politicians and political agendas that get in the way of equalization.


Social justice is getting out of date.
The objects of envy and resentment have become unionized government workers and their benefits and retirement packages.

People may envy the rich who earned it adding value but don't resent them because they admire those who manage to fulfill the american dream.

Government workers get resented because there's many more of them than rich people and they're getting an unfair share of the pie at the expense of average private sector workers.
Private sector workers resent govt workers who have it made in comparison
because they can relate while still favorably dreaming of being like the rich one day.
 
It is a function of the rhetoric surrounding all Leftist ideology.

Social justice through collectivism demands tricking people into giving up liberties in the name of envy and resentment. There has to be objects of envy and resentment for that emotional appeal to be persuasive and that rhetoric easily gets extended from capitalists and the rich to politicians and political agendas that get in the way of equalization.

Shag - I would like to know where you get that all leftist ideology is rooted in collectivism and social justice, or that everyone on the left is anti-capitalist. I don't believe that the right is rooted in anarchy and laissez-faire capitalism. or that everyone on the right is ready to overthrow the government.

Should I list the right's targets of derision or the useful idiots on the right?
 
"The right" is an intentionally vague term who's only consistent definition can be "those whom leftists disagree with". The very political spectrum you are referring to undercuts your argument because there is little ideological consistency on the right side of the political spectrum as it is typically understood today.
 

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