Giffords had history with Palin, Tea Party

[Calabrio]

Foxpaws, what a nicely presented piece of double speak. Disgusting and dishonest, but well crafted none the less.

When challenged directly, you quickly acknowledge that the shooter was not motivated by anything Sarah Palin said. When challenged, you acknowledged that the insane shooter wasn't motivated by the 2010 campaign or Republican campaign ads. When pushed for specifics, you'll acknowledge that the shooter wasn't engaged in any partisan attack of any kind. But while acknowledging all of this, we should refrain from speculating what really motivated the shooter and not draw any conclusions based on the increasing evidence. And that we should dismiss hearsay evidence. And perhaps he's embrace of the Communist Manifesto was because it was "opposite day" when he wrote it, or other equally absurd, but dismissive, excuses.

But then you immediately go off and write a lengthy post presenting imagery attacking Sarah Palin's rhetoric, and the harmless imagery used during the 2010, as being dangerous and that she's some way culpable for what happened. You don't specifically state this, but you clearly present that case in a slippery way. And you of course don't recognize the genuinely hateful and violent imagery embraced by the political left either.

Once again, this just demonstrates, how utterly incapable of having an honest discussion you are. You never stop campaigning. You never stop representing your movement, by any means necessary, truth be damned.

That's really quite disgusting and demonstrates why it's absolutely impossible to have an honest discussion with you.

Your main issue here is that Sarah Palin, and all being accused by the Demcorats, the leftist operatives, and the MSM, need to apologize for the something they have absolutely nothing to do with. I'm sure your also aware that any apology is a recognition of responsibility, for which they have none. No politicians or public figures should apologize for this crime-

However, many of them should apologize for their behavior and actions FOLLOWING this event. Lying and politically exploiting this act of violence of political means.

For example, you, foxpaws, should apologize, for exploiting the violence for political gain.

 

[04SCTLS]

Foxpaws, what a nicely presented piece of double speak. Disgusting and dishonest, but well crafted none the less.

When challenged directly, you quickly acknowledge that the shooter was not motivated by anything Sarah Palin said. When challenged, you acknowledged that the insane shooter wasn't motivated by the 2010 campaign or Republican campaign ads. When pushed for specifics, you'll acknowledge that the shooter wasn't engaged in any partisan attack of any kind. But while acknowledging all of this, we should refrain from speculating what really motivated the shooter and not draw any conclusions based on the increasing evidence. And that we should dismiss hearsay evidence. And perhaps he's embrace of the Communist Manifesto was because it was "opposite day" when he wrote it, or other equally absurd, but dismissive, excuses.

But then you immediately go off and write a lengthy post presenting imagery attacking Sarah Palin's rhetoric, and the harmless imagery used during the 2010, as being dangerous and that she's some way culpable for what happened. You don't specifically state this, but you clearly present that case in a slippery way. And you of course don't recognize the genuinely hateful and violent imagery embraced by the political left either.

Once again, this just demonstrates, how utterly incapable of having an honest discussion you are. You never stop campaigning. You never stop representing your movement, by any means necessary, truth be damned.

That's really quite disgusting and demonstrates why it's absolutely impossible to have an honest discussion with you.

Your main issue here is that Sarah Palin, and all being accused by the Demcorats, the leftist operatives, and the MSM, need to apologize for the something they have absolutely nothing to do with. I'm sure your also aware that any apology is a recognition of responsibility, for which they have none. No politicians or public figures should apologize for this crime-

However, many of them should apologize for their behavior and actions FOLLOWING this event. Lying and politically exploiting this act of violence of political means.

For example, you, foxpaws, should apologize, for exploiting the violence for political gain.

You miss that how Palin responds to this attack will in large part determine her fortunes amongst undecideds and centrists.
Why the attack was specifically launched and what Loughner was thinking is now besides the point.
This is a test of fire.
We'll see if her negatives go up or just hold steady.

 

[Calabrio]

Ted Rall, the political commentator, Pulitzer prize winning cartoonist, author of the "Anti-American Manifesto", and in general a respect voice of the left had this to say about the incident:

Rall's says that the shooting was just the “premature ejaculation” of radical and violent forces that will eventually overthrow the current American system.....

Rall said Jared Lee Loughner’s shooting spree, the suicide attack on an IRS building by a Texas pilot, the Discovery building gunman and office shootings throughout the U.S. are “symptoms of our political problem,” not acts of political violence...

While he strongly condemned Loughner’s actions, Rall said attacking agents of the state, particularly high-level officials is “certainly within the realm of the [revolutionary] system.”

“Historically, it’s been something that people [revolutions] have done — target political officials. It happens in Iraq, in Afghanistan,” said Rall. “I’m not endorsing it at all and obviously it’s tragic, but I think that the whole discussion of conflating this with the effects of violent rhetoric is kinda crazy.”

Published in Nov. 2010, “Anti-American Manifesto,” is an indictment of what Rall sees as the American empire. It warns readers of the need to prepare, mobilize and actively incite the coming revolutionary change in America.

“A war is coming … The government, the corporations, and the extreme right are prepared to coalesce into the Axis of Evil,” writes Rall in the book. “Are you going to fight back? Will you do whatever it takes? Including taking up arms?”
.......
“the hardcore, racist, undereducated, fundamentalist, Christian, anti-civil liberties Right” for understanding and preparing for an inevitable, close-at-hand revolution that will most likely result in bloodletting and most definitely mean the defeat of a government that no longer serves its people.

In an interview after the Jan. 9 shooting, however, Rall told TheDC that the recent attack in Arizona did not reflect the message of his book because Loughner lacked a “coherent political ideology” and didn’t have “what it takes to make it happen.”
..............
“[Loughner’s actions] are not part of any revolution. It’s not part of a right-wing revolution, it’s not part of any revolution. It’s premature ejaculation,” Rall told TheDC. “ It’s just completely something that serves no purpose, at this time.”
............
“What it is, it’s about getting it done. If you’re going to tie one hand behind your back, you don’t stand a chance,” Rall told TheDC in 2010. “If you’re going to be nonviolent, I have two questions for you: How are you going to win? I mean, no meaningful, radical, political change has taken place solely through the use of non-violence.”

 

[04SCTLS]

Tucson Spells Trouble for Palin's Presidential Hopes


http://slatest.slate.com/id/2280796/entry/3/

Whether or not Sarah Palin's infamous 'crosshairs map' had anything to do with alleged Tucson shooter Jared Loughner, last weekend's attack has definitely made it harder for her to come across as a viable presidential hopeful. After a Palin-produced gunsight map went viral, the internet lit up with criticism linking her camp to Giffords' attack (the Arizona congresswoman's district was targeted as one to "take back" in 2010), dragging the former governor into the debate. Palin posted a brief condolence on Facebook and promptly went into self-defense mode—a move that didn't win her any fans, and caused her political stock to plummet in an online futures market. It's unfair to "put the actions of this insane person on her doorstep or anyone's doorstep," GOP strategist John Weaver says, but critics counter that Palin's reaction is the real problem. Instead of seizing upon a national tragedy to prove herself a leader, David Frum complains that Palin's response "was petty at a moment when [she] had been handed perhaps her last clear chance to show herself presidentially magnanimous." Salon's Steve Kornacki adds that although Palin has been losing steam since the midterm elections (an end-of-year poll noted a 20 percent drop in GOPers willing to support a presidential bid) Tucson could put an even earlier end to her White House aspirations. The Washington Post's Greg Sargent predicts that Palin will have to do some serious damange control to get behind the story, and at the New Republic, Jonathan Bernstein reminds readers that even if her campaign seems doomed now, 2012 is still a long ways away.

______________________________________________________________-

Palin isn't smart enough...not experienced enough to know that she had use the 'story' to help her 'presidential aspirations.'
A pro would have known it, but she didn't even have that.

The SS Palin is listing and a few more shots may send her POTUS ambitions to the bottom.
The attacks will now sharpen up.

 

[Calabrio]

You miss that how Palin responds to this attack will in large part determine her fortunes amongst undecideds and centrists.
Why the attack was specifically launched and what Loughner was thinking is now besides the point.
This is a test of fire.
We'll see if her negatives go up or just hold steady.

Who cares.
Seriously.
19 people were shot. 6 people were killed, including a 9 year old girl.
13 people were injured, some critically, and will be forever scarred and disabled.

You fixate on Sarah Palin like a stalker. Do you have a form letter from her stored in a safe too?

Those who like Sarah Palin will defend her.
Those who hate her will just embrace this political poison and use it to fuel their irrational hate.

I understand the art of politics and persuasion. But this story is so awful, that to engage in vile campaigning before the blood dried is just reprehensible. I don't know if you think the analysis or perspective you keep trying to interject has any value, but it doesn't. Even worse, you don't seem to realize that you're literally following a narrative that doesn't exist and was completely manufactured by political operatives and spin doctors.

To put it simply, to follow the Palin angle of this story as you keep presenting it, you'd have to be like the moron who ignored the Superbowl and instead followed the "Bud Bowl" during the commercials and now you want to know how the Bud Lite team handles the post season.

There is no story there. Palin has nothing to do with story. The tea party has nothing do with the story. The guy was a nut, his infatuation with Gifford appears to pre-date both Sarah Palin's national presence and the existence of the Tea Party.

To engage the story is only to reinforce it. As foxpaws certainly knows, in order to discuss the lie, you have to repeat the lie... and in doing so, you reinforce the lie.

As for that disengaged "center," the long term consequences- most likely slight, will be shaped by how effectively the Democrat party and the media can coordinate their political propaganda. To discuss this farther, we need to discuss the dishonest ways the press and political class manipulate the public, truth be damned, and what their goals are.

We can't even do that here because there are people who won't permit that to happen. They won't drop the charade long enough to show the actual intentions and stage craft at work and will actively undermine and interfere with any conversation. To have that discussion, we'd have to all acknowledge the truth, and some people won't do that.


...additional point
Have noticed that most of your posts have been from SLATE?

 

[foxpaws]

Foxpaws, what a nicely presented piece of double speak. Disgusting and dishonest, but well crafted none the less.

When challenged directly, you quickly acknowledge that the shooter was not motivated by anything Sarah Palin said. When challenged, you acknowledged that the insane shooter wasn't motivated by the 2010 campaign or Republican campaign ads. When pushed for specifics, you'll acknowledge that the shooter wasn't engaged in any partisan attack of any kind. But while acknowledging all of this, we should refrain from speculating what really motivated the shooter and not draw any conclusions based on the increasing evidence. And that we should dismiss hearsay evidence. And perhaps he's embrace of the Communist Manifesto was because it was "opposite day" when he wrote it, or other equally absurd, but dismissive, excuses.

I acknowledged that he wasn't a tea party member - that he wasn't a card carrying right wing guy - that would have surfaced instantly.

I never, ever acknowledged that this wasn't a partisan attack - I said that obviously the man is insane, and that is all we know at this time. We shouldn't be placing blame. That we should wait for the investigation to proceed. It could be that he was following the left and targeted Giffords for something that a left wing pundit said - I don't know - the evidence isn't in, the trial has yet to commence. However Cal, you are itching to place blame, now, based on circumstantial evidence and hearsay.

But then you immediately go off and write a lengthy post presenting imagery attacking Sarah Palin's rhetoric, and the harmless imagery used during the 2010, as being dangerous and that she's some way culpable for what happened. You don't specifically state this, but you clearly present that case in a slippery way. And you of course don't recognize the genuinely hateful and violent imagery embraced by the political left either.

I think that this event can have a positive influence on how we are currently dealing with politics. Occasionally it takes a catastrophic event to invoke change. After the horror of the 16th Street Baptist Church Bombing the rhetoric of the Civil Rights movement changed, on both sides. Innocence was taken away that day, just as it was taken away last Saturday.

We need to look at the hateful rhetoric, and I believe that currently the imagery of traitor, enemy, un-American, and imposing the idea that those we disagree with politically are targets - that we need to take them down - that a second amendment solution is called for, needs to be re-examined.

Your main issue here is that Sarah Palin, and all being accused by the Demcorats, the leftist operatives, and the MSM, need to apologize for the something they have absolutely nothing to do with. I'm sure your also aware that any apology is a recognition of responsibility, for which they have none. No politicians or public figures should apologize for this crime-

However, many of them should apologize for their behavior and actions FOLLOWING this event. Lying and politically exploiting this act of violence of political means.

The rhetoric of the tea party and their leaders and pundits could very well have absolutely nothing to do with this event, and in fact, I would be surprised if it did. However, I think that this event can be a turning point on what is acceptable in political discourse.

I don't expect Palin and her ilk to apologize for the crime - I expect her, and others on both sides of the fence who use violent allegories, to state that they will stop using such graphic imagery in their political discussions.

What the rank and file will do is anyone's guess - but setting an example at the top certainly can't hurt.

For example, you, foxpaws, should apologize, for exploiting the violence for political gain.

If this event makes those of us involved in politics to think twice about the impact of our words, then perhaps we can say we have learned from our past.

Not exploiting the violence for political gain - but taking a tragedy and changing how we think about our actions, once again Cal, on both sides of the fence.

 

[foxpaws]

We can't even do that here because there are people who won't permit that to happen. They won't drop the charade long enough to show the actual intentions and stage craft at work and will actively undermine and interfere with any conversation. To have that discussion, we'd have to all acknowledge the truth, and some people won't do that.

Et moi? or Et Tu?

 

[04SCTLS]

Who cares.
Seriously.
19 people were shot. 6 people were killed, including a 9 year old girl.
13 people were injured, some critically, and will be forever scarred and disabled.

You fixate on Sarah Palin like a stalker. Do you have a form letter from her stored in a safe too?

Those who like Sarah Palin will defend her.
Those who hate her will just embrace this political poison and use it to fuel their irrational hate.

I understand the art of politics and persuasion. But this story is so awful, that to engage in vile campaigning before the blood dried is just reprehensible. I don't know if you think the analysis or perspective you keep trying to interject has any value, but it doesn't. Even worse, you don't seem to realize that you're literally following a narrative that doesn't exist and was completely manufactured by political operatives and spin doctors.

To put it simply, to follow the Palin angle of this story as you keep presenting it, you'd have to be like the moron who ignored the Superbowl and instead followed the "Bud Bowl" during the commercials and now you want to know how the Bud Lite team handles the post season.

There is no story there. Palin has nothing to do with story. The tea party has nothing do with the story. The guy was a nut, his infatuation with Gifford appears to pre-date both Sarah Palin's national presence and the existence of the Tea Party.

To engage the story is only to reinforce it. As foxpaws certainly knows, in order to discuss the lie, you have to repeat the lie... and in doing so, you reinforce the lie.

As for that disengaged "center," the long term consequences- most likely slight, will be shaped by how effectively the Democrat party and the media can coordinate their political propaganda. To discuss this farther, we need to discuss the dishonest ways the press and political class manipulate the public, truth be damned, and what their goals are.

We can't even do that here because there are people who won't permit that to happen. They won't drop the charade long enough to show the actual intentions and stage craft at work and will actively undermine and interfere with any conversation. To have that discussion, we'd have to all acknowledge the truth, and some people won't do that.


...additional point
Have noticed that most of your posts have been from SLATE?

Maybe you should start clicking your heels and repeating there's no place like home as Dorothy did in the Wizard of Oz
and this will all go away so Palin can continue in her "safe" campaign blather.
Or say something like nothing to see here as Leslie Neilson did in Naked Gun at an accident site.
Striking Palin while the iron is hot and before she has time to think ( a long time for her it seems) is a pretty obvious tactic.
An event has occured that has the possibility of seriously further damaging the lamebrained darling of the right
and there is no time to waste giving Palin and her sycophants breathing space to come up with retorts.
She is being declawed but can remain a celebrity mascot for conservatives and Tea Partyers.
You finish off an enemy when you have the chance and not wait so they can fight another day.
We'll see what kind of legs this story has.
I think it's most important that Palin does not get to run for president.
It should be Romney or Huckabee for the conservative nomination.

 

[ford nut]

Those who like Sarah Palin will defend her.
Those who hate her will just embrace this political poison and use it to fuel their irrational hate.

Does that include Tim Pawlenty?


Pawlenty criticizes Palin for cross hairs

http://content.usatoday.com/communi...ffords-tim-pawlenty-2012-presidential-race-/1

 

[04SCTLS]

Who cares.

People who don't want a bubblehead like Palin as president.

 

[Calabrio]

Maybe you should start clicking your heels and repeating there's no place like home as Dorothy did in the Wizard of Oz
and this will all go away so Palin can continue in her "safe" campaign blather.
Or say something like nothing to see here as Leslie Neilson did in Naked Gun at an accident site.

That doesn't even make sense.

If you want to discuss the political strategy and motivation associated with linking Palin, or anyone else, to this event, we need to first tear down the fourth wall and recognize it for what it is- political theater.

If you want to have a discussion about political stagecraft and propaganda, then we need to frame it as such and address the truth of it first.

Striking Palin while the iron is hot and before she has time to think ( a long time for her it seems) is a pretty obvious tactic.

People need to be careful and not confuse this kind of cynicism for some kind of political wisdom. You're not more clever because you think you see the political value of doing this. You're not on the inside because you're focusing on that. Infact, you're really just a political useful idiot who's too smart by half.

Exploiting a national tragedy like this isn't acceptable or decent.
It doesn't improve the country.
Embracing politics by "any means" has profound consequences, and they aren't positive.

Here's the reality- politics isn't just a game.
These competing interests aren't always just a rivalry easily equated to the Boston Red Sox and the New York Yankees. These interests have vastly different agendas, sometimes these competing agendas are on the same team. And the consequences are real, lasting, and shape the entire world.

Fixating on a lie, repeating a lie, and dismissing a lie because that's "part of the game" is being complicate in the lie and effectively just as negative, just as evil.

An event has occured that has the possibility of seriously further damaging the lamebrained darling of the right

...I get it. You don't like her...
And you don't care what it takes to undermine her, damn the consequences.
Does that indicate the limits of your intelligence or the shallowness of your integrity though?

If you think she's unqualified, then defeat her through political discourse, debate, in the arena of ideas.
If you can't do that, perhaps she's not as "lame brained" as you'd like to imagine her.

and there is no time to waste giving Palin and her sycophants breathing space to come up with retorts.

Because what's important here is using a national tragedy to perpetuate a lie in order to achieve some abstract political gain. Sarah Palin's presence on the political stage is so powerful that you think it's necessary to attempt to destroy her by any means available, whether it be honest or truthful and regardless the consequence.

And you think the country will be stronger for it?
You don't think there's going to be a negative backlash?

You have no idea what is actually going on. You're displaying such a narrow tunnel vision, and you've convinced yourself that what passes for cynicism is the equivalent of being informed or wise.
It's not. You're just being manipulated.

She is being declawed but can remain a celebrity mascot for conservatives and Tea Partyers.

Actually, you're wrong on this point too.
You'll actually see a defensive reaction to the lie and people will rally around her, profoundly offended an angry over the lie being perpetuated.


The orchestrated attack on the "right" will have only short term gains and long term negatives. Ten years ago, this wouldn't be true, HOWEVER, the organized left no longer can control ALL of the media. They can't control the internet, talk radio, or Fox News- at least not yet.

This story isn't going to go away. After the initial panic subsides, we'll deal with the legislative responses. After that, we'll have the inevitable special election to replace Gifford who, tragically, will most likely not be able to serve in her capacity as a Representative. And in that time, the truth will come out and those who have attempted to exploit this story will be caught in their lie. And that will result in a negative backlash.

And if you're really worried about violence, keep provoking people for two or three years, calling them violent, terrorists, while restricting their freedom as the economy squeezes them. This is actually pretty dangerous stuff.

You finish off an enemy when you have the chance and not wait so they can fight another day.

Again, you are making the mistake of thinking that this kind of analysis on your part makes you look clever or smart.

It doesn't.
It makes the person doing it look like a tool. Someone pretending to understand the events of the day while they really don't.

This isn't sports, politics is for keeps.
And we excuse or justify the abandonment of integrity, we get the government we deserve.

I think it's most important that Palin does not get to run for president.
It should be Romney or Huckabee for the conservative nomination.

That's what the primary process is for. It's not up to Democrat and left wing operatives to exploit tragedies to launch into political dishonest attacks and propaganda that include public figures that MAY run for office.

That doesn't justify it. It never has.
The reaction and manipulation by the political 'left' following this story is an absolute disgusting outrage. It is not defensible. It has no upside.

And if you really think it's focused JUST at Sarah Palin, you're completely wrong and your focus is so narrow that you're incapable of recognizing the events of the day.

 

[Calabrio]

Does that include Tim Pawlenty?

Pawlenty criticizes Palin for cross hairs

http://content.usatoday.com/communi...ffords-tim-pawlenty-2012-presidential-race-/1

I saw the interview this morning.
Scathing headline, entirely different when you read the story:

Pawlenty, who could find himself running against Palin in the 2012 GOP presidential primaries, said "it wouldn't have been my style to put the cross hairs on there" in an interview on ABC's Good Morning America.

He then added: "But again there is no evidence to suggest that it had anything to do with this mentally unstable person's rage and senseless act in Arizona."

 

[04SCTLS]

That doesn't even make sense.

If you want to discuss the political strategy and motivation associated with linking Palin, or anyone else, to this event, we need to first tear down the fourth wall and recognize it for what it is- political theater.

If you want to have a discussion about political stagecraft and propaganda, then we need to frame it as such and address the truth of it first.


People need to be careful and not confuse this kind of cynicism for some kind of political wisdom. You're not more clever because you think you see the political value of doing this. You're not on the inside because you're focusing on that. Infact, you're really just a political useful idiot who's too smart by half.

Exploiting a national tragedy like this isn't acceptable or decent.
It doesn't improve the country.
Embracing politics by "any means" has profound consequences, and they aren't positive.

Here's the reality- politics isn't just a game.
These competing interests aren't always just a rivalry easily equated the Boston Red Sox and the New York Yankees. These interests have vastly different agendas, sometimes these competing agendas are on the opposite teams. And the consequences are real, lasting, and shape the entire world.

Fixating on a lie, repeating a lie, and dismissing a lie because that's "part of the game" is being complicate in the lie and effectively just a negative.


...I get it. You don't like her...
And you don't care what it takes to undermine her, damn the consequences.

Does that indicate the limits of your intelligence or the shallowness of your integrity though?


Because what's important here is using a national tragedy to perpetuate a lie in order to achieve some abstract political gain. Sarah Palin's presence on the political stage is so powerful that you think it's necessary to attempt to destroy her by any means available, whether it be honest or truthful and regardless the consequence.

And you think the country will be stronger for it?
You don't think there's going to be a negative backlash?

You have no idea what is actually going on. You're displaying such a narrow tunnel vision, and you've convinced yourself that what passes for cynicism is the equivalent of being informed or wise.

It's not. You're just being manipulated.


Actually, you're wrong on this point too.
You'll actually see a defensive reaction to the lie and people will rally around her.

The orchestrated attack on the "right" will have only short term gains and long term negatives. Ten years ago, this wouldn't be true, HOWEVER, the organized left no longer can control ALL of the media. They can't control the internet, talk radio, or Fox News- at least not yet.

This story isn't going to go away. After the initial panic subsides, we'll deal with the legislative responses. After that, we'll have the inevitable special election to replace Gifford who, tragically, will most likely not be able to serve in her capacity as a Representative. And in that time, the truth will come out and those who have attempted to exploit this story will be caught in their lie. And that will result in a negative backlash.


Again, you are making the mistake of thinking that this kind of analysis on your part makes you look clever or smart.

It doesn't.
It makes the person doing it look like a tool. Someone pretending to understand the events of the day, but really doesn't.


That's what the primary process is for. It's not up to Democrat and left wing operatives to exploit tragedies to launch into political dishonest attacks and propaganda that include public figures that MAY run for office.

That doesn't justify it. It never has.
The reaction and manipulation by the political 'left' following this story is an absolute disgusting outrage. It is not defensible. It has no upside.

And if you really think it's focused JUST at Sarah Palin, you're completely wrong and your focus is so narrow that you're incapable of recognizing the events of the day.

Well I certainly wouldn't want you on the team if I was running a political campaign.
You seem like you are weak and do not have the clarity and ruthless capacity required to win.
You would rather be a graceful loser.
You're right the story is not going to end soon and Palin and the Tea party will continue to be brought up and thought of everytime it's mentioned.

 

[Calabrio]

Well I certainly wouldn't want you on the team if I was running a political campaign.
You seem like you are weak and do not have the clarity and ruthless capacity required to win.
You would rather be a graceful loser.
You're right the story is not going to end soon and Palin and the Tea party will continue to be brought up and thought of everytime it's mentioned.

You really don't understand how ignorant you are.
This is about so much more than just Sarah Palin.

 

[04SCTLS]

You really don't understand how ignorant you are.

That's just your frustrado opinion.
There's more to this than Sarah Palin but it is clearly an opportunity to
try to bring her down.
I don't know if you're accomplished at anything that would lend credibility
to your statements and opinions.
I've known extremely opinionated conservative people who are strikingly unaccomplished in life and just getting by.
I value the opinion of doers over talkers and posers any day.
Foxy at least has personal experience with something like this.
Your arguments IMO have never been very cutting or superlative.
A large minority 36% believe heated rhetoric played a role in this incident.
That's enough of a group to convince to turn away from Palin and her ilk if they haven't already.
I told you wait and see what would happen at the beginning of this post
and it has.
I didn't need to hear it from the pundits like you do before knowing what to think.
Palin was on her way out as the next conservative candidate anyways.
Many prominent conservatives including Ann Coulter have put their names out objecting to her for POTUS.
Maybe this event will flush out Palin's ambition to being POTUS better and help speed the inevitable along.

 

[Calabrio]

As I said... you have no idea how ignorant you are.
Just keep stroking yourself, it apparently makes you feel good.

 

[04SCTLS]

As I said... you have no idea how ignorant you are.
Just keep stroking yourself, it apparently makes you feel good.

Down to dismissal by opinion.
You're the one being ignoring of what's happening.
Palin being hit by this and getting some stripes torn off
is the silver lining in an awful situatuion.
It is a concrete thing wheras the other ramifications are vague and
still to be seen.
You're the one choosing to ignore
the 36% of people who have drawn a connection.
Nothing you write is impressive enough to be worth stroking over or getting excited about but I've got you worked up.
Typical of you to repeat other's talking points while acting indignant.
I checked Rush's site just now and every article is an attack on being attacked by the MSM and the other usual suspects over this shooting.
Obviously he's showing leadership in treating this much more importantly and seriously than Palin and your weak loser head in the sand approach.

 

[Calabrio]

Down to dismissal by opinion.

I've attempted a conversation with you, if you chose not to engage in a thoughtful way or address any points while you maintain your narrow focus, there really isn't much more to add. I'm glad you feel so good about yourself. Ignorance is bliss.

 

[foxpaws]

If you want to discuss the political strategy and motivation associated with linking Palin, or anyone else, to this event, we need to first tear down the fourth wall and recognize it for what it is- political theater.

The fourth column has morphed into what the people want - sensationalism, exploitation, finger-pointing, innuendo and occasionally out and out lies....

I have stated over and over again, the media is biased, there is almost no way to remove that bias when the corporations that own the outlets are constantly looking at the instantaneous bottom line, the overnight numbers, the next big 'thing'. Hyperbole sells.

Palin worked the 4th column as well as anyone - the question lies now on how well she will do when she doesn't call the shots. If these past few days are any indication, not well.

This is toxic - but, we will be remiss if we don't take this opportunity to change.

 

[04SCTLS]

I've attempted a conversation with you, if you chose not to engage in a thoughtful way or address any points while you maintain your narrow focus, there really isn't much more to add. I'm glad you feel so good about yourself. Ignorance is bliss.

Your points all boil down to it's wrong and unfair that some are exploiting a tragedy.
I'm more cynical about human nature.
We're always dicking each other over for something.
Life is unfair but it's also more fair to some than others.
Competition in life is fierce (at least for me) and there is no time to waste when an opportunity presents itself.
My point is that there are winners and losers in life and victory goes to the strong and clever.
It's a dog eat dog world.
Palin is not being strong or clever.
Now we see her in action (or lack of )in an unscripted situation.
Instead of showing leadership she's portraying herself as a victim.
Victims are not winners as they have by definition lost something.
If Palin continues to portray herself as such then she will be a loser.

 

[04SCTLS]

This is toxic - but, we will be remiss if we don't take this opportunity to change.

After shedding crocodile tears for a while and promising more civility nothing will change.
Guns will still be readily available and treatment for mental problems will not increase.
It's politically incorrect to lock up borderline mental cases unless it's after some horror show nastiness.
The rich will get richer and night will be followed by day.

 

[Calabrio]

I've mentioned that this is about more than just Sarah Palin and that only a narrow focused, myopic fool would identify it as such.

You have legislation moving forward that will expand gun control.

And, Peter King, a NY Republican who is usually respected, is proposing expansive federal gun control regulation that will make it illegal to come within 1000 feet of government representative.

There's also talk about having to vastly expand the security around all elected officials, further isolating them off from the public and making that a protected class of citizens.

It's only Tuesday and that's the just the legislative response.

But as SCuTLeS referenced, but fails to recognize, the attacks are on ALL forms of alternative media, outside the traditional mainstream, that are not supportive of the 'leftist' political agenda. It's not just Sarah Palin.

For example, as he discovered on the Limbaugh website, voices like his are being attacked and presented as having been motivating factors in the attacks. We know this isn't true. The purpose of such association is to vilify and marginalize their voices. In other words, to STIFLE DEBATE and silence the politically opposing voices.

In response we have Representatives, again, trying to move the "Fairness Doctrine" through legislative means again and limit free speech. Again, the purpose is to stifle debate and silence differing political opinions.

And the hysteria, if unchecked, can easily be used to limit internet communication and news as well. This is even easier to accomplish considering the FCC assumed responsibility of regulating the internet via net neutrality last month.

And what do you think the push back will be when half the country is told that they are responsible for this shooting? When regulation and legislation is advanced that is limiting our constitutional freedoms? When the vast majority of the people recognize that the politicians and the media are coordinating a lie? When there's no faith in ANY existing institutions and alternative media is silenced creating an atmosphere of isolation?

And what happens when this is done during a period of prolonged economic contraction and pressure?

This is SO MUCH more than just Sarah Palin.
But keep smling, we're all impressed by your analysis.

If Palin continues to portray herself as such then she will be a loser.

And my point is, this is not about Sarah Palin.
More than likely, Palin will weather this attack and come out stronger for it, just like she has EVERY other time. Her appeal is personal. That also means those that defend her will do it personally as well. And her power comes not from her political support, but by the medias infatuation with her, and that will only be more intense following this "scandal."

If you want to get inside baseball with this, the entire scheme may effectively undermine the credibility of all the attackers launching the attacks on Palin, Limbaugh, Beck, Fox, and the conservative movement. You'll notice how carefully foxpaws tiptoes around her attacks. That attack is transparently a lie.

But this is about much more than her.

 

[04SCTLS]

I've mentioned that this is about more than just Sarah Palin and that only a narrow focused, myopic fool would identify it as such.

You have legislation moving forward that will expand gun control.

And, Peter King, a NY Republican who is usually respected, is proposing expansive federal gun control regulation that will make it illegal to come within 1000 feet of government representative.

There's also talk about having to vastly expand the security around all elected officials, further isolating them off from the public and making that a protected class of citizens.

It's only Tuesday and that's the just the legislative response.

But as SCuTLeS referenced, but fails to recognize, the attacks are on ALL forms of alternative media, outside the traditional mainstream, that are not supportive of the 'leftist' political agenda. It's not just Sarah Palin.

For example, as he discovered on the Limbaugh website, voices like his are being attacked and presented as having been motivating factors in the attacks. We know this isn't true. The purpose of such association is to vilify and marginalize their voices. In other words, to STIFLE DEBATE and silence the politically opposing voices.

In response we have Representatives, again, trying to move the "Fairness Doctrine" through legislative means again and limit free speech. Again, the purpose is to stifle debate and silence differing political opinions.

And the hysteria, if unchecked, can easily be used to limit internet communication and news as well. This is even easier to accomplish considering the FCC assumed responsibility of regulating the internet via net neutrality last month.

And what do you think the push back will be when half the country is told that they are responsible for this shooting? When regulation and legislation is advanced that is limiting our constitutional freedoms? When the vast majority of the people recognize that the politicians and the media are coordinating a lie? When there's no faith in ANY existing institutions and alternative media is silenced creating an atmosphere of isolation?

And what happens when this is done during a period of prolonged economic contraction and pressure?

This is SO MUCH more than just Sarah Palin.
But keep smling, we're all impressed by your analysis.

I'm in favor of gun control.
People don't need military weapons or 30 round gun clips to play with.
Unlike other hobbies guns are designed to kill things.
I don't view it as a road to serfdom like you hysterically do.
To me that would be a big part of the cure of what ails us.
This is the chickens coming home to roost.
Due to conservatives and the National Rifle Association almost any nut job can get a gun in this country.
If all you otherwise powerless little guys were to turn in your guns we(the ruling class of owners movers and shakers) wouldn't be proposing these new laws.
These proposed restrictions IMO will make the US a better country.
You gun lovers have had one nut job too many to apologize for and excuse.
We've learned to put up with the TSA for our mutual safety.

Your warning to me is like warning someone not to take the cure for their
disease/illness because it may unsettle them in the short term.

 

[04SCTLS]

If you want to get inside baseball with this, the entire scheme may effectively undermine the credibility of all the attackers launching the attacks on Palin, Limbaugh, Beck, Fox, and the conservative movement. You'll notice how carefully foxpaws tiptoes around her attacks. That attack is transparently a lie.

Wishful thinking.
The general public other than the zealots only cares so much and has a short attention span (Haiti) however it will not be hard to remind them about this down the road when needed.

Foxy is tiptoeing because she knows it is better to get a feel for things and see where the wind keeps blowing before launching an attack.

And at least a liar knows the truth unlike a fanatic or someone delusionally guided by faith and belief in others and their thinking.
When you believe in things you don't understand (or have personal experience of) you suffer(Stevie Wonder)

 

[Calabrio]

I'm in favor of gun control.
People don't need military weapons or 30 round gun clips to play with.
Unlike other hobbies guns are designed to kill things.

Can you define a "military weapon" for me?
And yes, guns are designed to kill things. They are used to defend and protect individuals, our families, and our freedoms.

You don't need a bill of rights to protect a sport or hobby.

I don't view it as a road to serfdom like you hysterically do.

Which is incredible considering what you are to go on to say...
But I'm sure you are blissful when saying it.

If all you otherwise powerless little guys

Of, I'm sorry.. I forgot, I was talking to the King of Upstate NY.
I'm sure your 10 employees are very intimated.
I know landscapers who generate more annual sales than you... settle down.
I know who you are, you've told us enough about yourself to figure it out....and Abe Froeman, the Sausage King of Chicago laughs at you. Your internet anonymity is gone.

were to turn in your guns we(the ruling class of owners) wouldn't be proposing these new laws.

Stroke stroke stroke.....

These proposed restrictions IMO will make the US a better country.

Then have the debate.

Your warning to me is like warning someone not to take the cure for their disease.

See, in your ignorance, you're trusting the person who claims to have the cure. The reality is, you don't know what it is your drinking.

I need to thank you for doing something.
You have so beautifully presented the reprehensible attitude of the Progressive political movement. The condescension. The attitude.

The idea that you are somehow better than other people, that you know what's best, and because of this attitude you should affect the political change you want by any means necessary, without regard for individual liberty or the constitution limitations on the federal government.

Here's the reality, in the big picture, you're just a naive, working class hick living in upstate NY. A useful idiot at best, contemptible at worst, in the mind of the real "ruling class" that you want to identify yourself with in your delusion.

Keep smiling D.