Excessive oil in intake manifold

2000sportv8

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Hi guys, I have a 2001 Lincoln LS V8. 150,000 miles. I had a secondary timing chain break which bent the 2 exhaust valve on the number 7 cylinder. So I pulled it apart and replaced all valves on both heads with new valves and smoothed out the intake and exhaust runners with sandpaper wheels. No porting at all. New valve steam seals. Twice now just to be safe because of the issue I'm getting to. Reseated the valves. New head gaskets. Front cover gasket. Intake manifold gasket. Everything. I did cut the cats off for easier access to exhaust manifolds. Compression checked the number 7 cylinder today and got back 130psi.
So the issue is I'm getting oil in the intake manifold. I'd say around half a normal coffee cup. Maybe less. I've tried disconnecting the pvc hose the goes from passenger side valve cover to the intake manifold to see if that stopped the oil but it has not. The car is running rough and seems to be lacking power. It did sit for almost 2 years before I was able to get back to looking at it. This is after I originally fixed it. I wanted to see if anyone can help me out and point me to something I'm over looking or something I just haven't considered. I'll post picks from before and after I fixed the valves. Thanks for taking the time to read through all this.

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milehighmikey

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Shouldn't your compression test results be in the 200+ range? Sounds like a piston ring defect, like what tends to happen on Subaru cylinder 4. I had a brand new block crack a ring land at 18K miles, you almost needed a macroscope to see the fault with the piston removed. Its compression was down from 140 psi to 60 psi with almost no visible damage. Do all pistons make it to top dead center? No bent rods? Well at least your heads may be ok, but maybe not, there could also be hidden damage from the valves it bent. Good luck with the repair.
 

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Maximum Pressure​
Minimum Pressure​
Maximum Pressure​
Minimum Pressure​
Maximum Pressure​
Minimum Pressure​
Maximum Pressure​
Minimum Pressure​
924 kPa (134 psi)​
696 kPa (101 psi)​
1131 kPa (164 psi)​
848 kPa (123 psi)​
1338 kPa (194 psi)​
1000 kPa (146 psi)​
1544 kPa (224 psi)​
1158 kPa (168 psi)​
938 kPa (136 psi)​
703 kPa (102 psi)​
1145 kPa (166 psi)​
855 kPa (124 psi)​
1351 kPa (196 psi)​
1014 kPa (147 psi)​
1558 kPa (226 psi)​
1165 kPa (169 psi)​
952 kPa (138 psi)​
717 kPa (104 psi)​
1158 kPa (168 psi)​
869 kPa (126 psi)​
1365 kPa (198 psi)​
1020 kPa (148 psi)​
1572 kPa (228 psi)​
1179 kPa (171 psi)​
965 kPa (140 psi)​
724 kPa (106 psi)​
1172 kPa (170 psi)​
876 kPa (127 psi)​
1379 kPa (200 psi)​
1034 kPa (150 psi)​
1586 kPa (230 psi)​
1186 kPa (172 psi)​
979 kPa (142 psi)​
738 kPa (107 psi)​
1186 kPa (172 psi)​
889 kPa (129 psi)​
1303 kPa (202 psi)​
1041 kPa (151 psi)​
1600 kPa (232 psi)​
1200 kPa (174 psi)​
933 kPa (144 psi)​
745 kPa (109 psi)​
1200 kPa (174 psi)​
903 kPa (131 psi)​
1407 kPa (204 psi)​
1055 kPa (153 psi)​
1055 kPa (153 psi)​
1207 kPa (175 psi)​
1007 kPa (146 psi)​
758 kPa (110 psi)​
1214 kPa (176 psi)​
910 kPa (132 psi)​
1420 kPa (206 psi)​
1062 kPa (154 psi)​
1627 kPa (154 psi)​
1220 kPa (177 psi)​
1020 kPa (148 psi)​
765 kPa (111 psi)​
1227 kPa (178 psi)​
917 kPa (133 psi)​
1434 kPa (208 psi)​
1075 kPa (156 psi)​
1641 kPa (238 psi)​
1227 kPa (178 psi)​
1034 kPa (150 psi)​
779 kPa (113 psi)​
1241 kPa (180 psi)​
931 kPa (135 psi)​
1448 kPa (210 psi)​
1083 kPa (157 psi)​
1655 kPa (240 psi)​
1241 kPa (180 psi)​
1048 kPa (152 psi)​
786 kPa (114 psi)​
1255 kPa (182 psi)​
936 kPa (136 psi)​
1462 kPa (212 psi)​
1089 kPa (158 psi)​
1669 kPa (242 psi)​
1248 kPa (181 psi)​
1062 kPa (154 psi)​
793 kPa (115 psi)​
1269 kPa (184 psi)​
952 kPa (138 psi)​
1476 kPa (214 psi)​
1103 kPa (160 psi)​
1682 kPa (244 psi)​
1262 kPa (183 psi)​
1076 kPa (156 psi)​
807 kPa (117 psi)​
1282 kPa (186 psi)​
965 kPa (140 psi)​
1489 kPa (216 psi)​
1117 kPa (162 psi)​
1696 kPa (246 psi)​
1269 kPa (184 psi)​
1089 kPa (158 psi)​
814 kPa (118 psi)​
1296 kPa (188 psi)​
972 kPa (141 psi)​
1503 kPa (218 psi)​
1124 kPa (163 psi)​
1710 kPa (248 psi)​
1202 kPa (186 psi)​
1103 kPa (160 psi)​
827 kPa (120 psi)​
1310 kPa (190 psi)​
979 kPa (142 psi)​
1517 kPa (220 psi)​
1138 kPa (165 psi)​
1724 kPa (250 psi)​
1289 kPa (187 psi)​
1110 kPa (161 psi)​
834 kPa (121 psi)​
1324 kPa (192 psi)​
993 kPa (144 psi)​
1631 kPa (222 psi)​
1145 kPa (166 psi)​
—​
—​

Looks like 130 is in range, depending on what the others are measuring.
Honestly, 1/2 cup of oil in the bottom on the intake manifold is normal by my experiences with them. (There always seemed to be about that amount in them when I removed one.)

One test for the rings is to remove the oil fill cap with the engine running and lightly play your hand or a rag over it. It should slightly suck on your hand or slightly pull the rag in. (PCV system needs to be correctly connected.) If it puffs out instead, your rings are shot.
 

2000sportv8

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Maximum Pressure​
Minimum Pressure​
Maximum Pressure​
Minimum Pressure​
Maximum Pressure​
Minimum Pressure​
Maximum Pressure​
Minimum Pressure​
924 kPa (134 psi)​
696 kPa (101 psi)​
1131 kPa (164 psi)​
848 kPa (123 psi)​
1338 kPa (194 psi)​
1000 kPa (146 psi)​
1544 kPa (224 psi)​
1158 kPa (168 psi)​
938 kPa (136 psi)​
703 kPa (102 psi)​
1145 kPa (166 psi)​
855 kPa (124 psi)​
1351 kPa (196 psi)​
1014 kPa (147 psi)​
1558 kPa (226 psi)​
1165 kPa (169 psi)​
952 kPa (138 psi)​
717 kPa (104 psi)​
1158 kPa (168 psi)​
869 kPa (126 psi)​
1365 kPa (198 psi)​
1020 kPa (148 psi)​
1572 kPa (228 psi)​
1179 kPa (171 psi)​
965 kPa (140 psi)​
724 kPa (106 psi)​
1172 kPa (170 psi)​
876 kPa (127 psi)​
1379 kPa (200 psi)​
1034 kPa (150 psi)​
1586 kPa (230 psi)​
1186 kPa (172 psi)​
979 kPa (142 psi)​
738 kPa (107 psi)​
1186 kPa (172 psi)​
889 kPa (129 psi)​
1303 kPa (202 psi)​
1041 kPa (151 psi)​
1600 kPa (232 psi)​
1200 kPa (174 psi)​
933 kPa (144 psi)​
745 kPa (109 psi)​
1200 kPa (174 psi)​
903 kPa (131 psi)​
1407 kPa (204 psi)​
1055 kPa (153 psi)​
1055 kPa (153 psi)​
1207 kPa (175 psi)​
1007 kPa (146 psi)​
758 kPa (110 psi)​
1214 kPa (176 psi)​
910 kPa (132 psi)​
1420 kPa (206 psi)​
1062 kPa (154 psi)​
1627 kPa (154 psi)​
1220 kPa (177 psi)​
1020 kPa (148 psi)​
765 kPa (111 psi)​
1227 kPa (178 psi)​
917 kPa (133 psi)​
1434 kPa (208 psi)​
1075 kPa (156 psi)​
1641 kPa (238 psi)​
1227 kPa (178 psi)​
1034 kPa (150 psi)​
779 kPa (113 psi)​
1241 kPa (180 psi)​
931 kPa (135 psi)​
1448 kPa (210 psi)​
1083 kPa (157 psi)​
1655 kPa (240 psi)​
1241 kPa (180 psi)​
1048 kPa (152 psi)​
786 kPa (114 psi)​
1255 kPa (182 psi)​
936 kPa (136 psi)​
1462 kPa (212 psi)​
1089 kPa (158 psi)​
1669 kPa (242 psi)​
1248 kPa (181 psi)​
1062 kPa (154 psi)​
793 kPa (115 psi)​
1269 kPa (184 psi)​
952 kPa (138 psi)​
1476 kPa (214 psi)​
1103 kPa (160 psi)​
1682 kPa (244 psi)​
1262 kPa (183 psi)​
1076 kPa (156 psi)​
807 kPa (117 psi)​
1282 kPa (186 psi)​
965 kPa (140 psi)​
1489 kPa (216 psi)​
1117 kPa (162 psi)​
1696 kPa (246 psi)​
1269 kPa (184 psi)​
1089 kPa (158 psi)​
814 kPa (118 psi)​
1296 kPa (188 psi)​
972 kPa (141 psi)​
1503 kPa (218 psi)​
1124 kPa (163 psi)​
1710 kPa (248 psi)​
1202 kPa (186 psi)​
1103 kPa (160 psi)​
827 kPa (120 psi)​
1310 kPa (190 psi)​
979 kPa (142 psi)​
1517 kPa (220 psi)​
1138 kPa (165 psi)​
1724 kPa (250 psi)​
1289 kPa (187 psi)​
1110 kPa (161 psi)​
834 kPa (121 psi)​
1324 kPa (192 psi)​
993 kPa (144 psi)​
1631 kPa (222 psi)​
1145 kPa (166 psi)​
—​
—​

Looks like 130 is in range, depending on what the others are measuring.
Honestly, 1/2 cup of oil in the bottom on the intake manifold is normal by my experiences with them. (There always seemed to be about that amount in them when I removed one.)

One test for the rings is to remove the oil fill cap with the engine running and lightly play your hand or a rag over it. It should slightly suck on your hand or slightly pull the rag in. (PCV system needs to be correctly connected.) If it puffs out instead, your rings are shot.
So I did do the oil fill cap test and have no air pushing out at all. The oil is going through the exhaust and coming out of the muffler only on the passenger side. So that makes me wonder if maybe something else is going on and causing it to pick the oil up instead of it just sitting there. I'll get a picture of the amount of oil that sitting in the intake once I run the car for a little bit. It doesn't take long for it to build back up. Another quick question. If it were the piston rings wouldn't I also have gas in the oil?
 

2000sportv8

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Shouldn't your compression test results be in the 200+ range? Sounds like a piston ring defect, like what tends to happen on Subaru cylinder 4. I had a brand new block crack a ring land at 18K miles, you almost needed a macroscope to see the fault with the piston removed. Its compression was down from 140 psi to 60 psi with almost no visible damage. Do all pistons make it to top dead center? No bent rods? Well at least your heads may be ok, but maybe not, there could also be hidden damage from the valves it bent. Good luck with the repair.
Yes they all come all the way up to top.of block. That's how I was able to clean them with out damaging the cylinder walls. My brother pointed out that a hair line crack in the head wouldn't be visible to the naked eye. That a lot of to take the heads back off on a possibility.
 

ajv8

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oil in the intake is normal on the LS and older engines. the 4.2 and later have an oil separator valve and it cuts down on mist in the intake tract

F7F6615E-EC38-4A8A-B5B0-AF07B712AC58.jpeg
 

2000sportv8

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I might go ahead and buy a oil catch can just to have it. I drive it home from my shop today and it wasn't smoking. Until I got off the highway and had to stop at a light. Started smoking again when accelerating. I'm thinking it should clear up eventually. The new issue is it stutters when it shifts into overdrive under light throttle. It's a fast stutter. It threw codes for a misfire on cylinders 8,7,4. Plus a lean bank 2 code. Since the coils aren't cheap I want to ask you guys if you have any idea if there might be anything else that could cause this? Thanks for taking time to try and help me out. Oh the coils on it now are cheap Amazon coils.
 

04_Sport_LS

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Just a thought... but maybe the bent valves damaged the valve guides on #7 just enough to cause extra oil consumption.

Take the suspect head to a machine shop and have them pull a vacuum on the intake and exhaust ports of #7.

Maybe have them dye-pen the head too to check for cracks.
Screenshot_20220520-225507.png
 

2000sportv8

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Just a thought... but maybe the bent valves damaged the valve guides on #7 just enough to cause extra oil consumption.

Take the suspect head to a machine shop and have them pull a vacuum on the intake and exhaust ports of #7.

Maybe have them dye-pen the head too to check for cracks. View attachment 828577206
Good point. I try moving the valve side to side to see if it had more play than the others but I can see how that wouldn't be definitive answer. I should have just had the valve guides replaced when I did everything else. I can do a lot at my shop. Have a mill big enough to put a head on. I'm thinking that might be my next choice. At this point im going to keep driving it and see if it clears up. It's getting better but not completely gone. Hoping its just a stuck ring and a vacuum leak that I haven't found yet.
 

04_Sport_LS

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. I try moving the valve side to side to see if it had more play than the others but I can see how that wouldn't be definitive answer.

Usually you set up a dial indicator on a base... and check for lateral movement of the stem in the guide.

Depending on the manufacturer... usually determines the specs... which are found in the book for whatever specific engine.
 

BILLBOATS

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I might go ahead and buy a oil catch can just to have it. I drive it home from my shop today and it wasn't smoking. Until I got off the highway and had to stop at a light. Started smoking again when accelerating. I'm thinking it should clear up eventually. The new issue is it stutters when it shifts into overdrive under light throttle. It's a fast stutter. It threw codes for a misfire on cylinders 8,7,4. Plus a lean bank 2 code. Since the coils aren't cheap I want to ask you guys if you have any idea if there might be anything else that could cause this? Thanks for taking time to try and help me out. Oh the coils on it now are cheap Amazon coils.
When I did a head gasaket replacement on my 4 cyl tr 3a , my 6 cyl tr6 I let a auto machine shop do it because they magna fluxed head for cracks, planed off the head milling it .020 and expert grinding valves , machine press the guides . Sorry to hear you did so much and face getting more problems to fix. A valve stem can be olut of round by just .010- 013 and you would not see it by eye. Its too late to check as that engine is now assembled. It's an outside chanuce a bent valve stem is not seating 100% causing a lower comp psi. I am guessing. You did a nice job but the 3 things normally can't be checked at home. The milling of the heads, and roundness of every valve stem plus magna fluxing. I felt in my day the job had hidden risks ./ I avoided taking a chance , thats what made me take it to a auto machine shop. There might be a way to used compressed air in 7 , take off the rocker arm , and turn the exhause and intakes by hand with a magnetic mic, tip on the stem while you turn the it. The comp air will hold up the valves while you check for bent valve stems. A auto machine shop can tell you what tollerances the valve stems can be out of round and still be good or bent. If the car didn't use oil before , the cylinder(s) could be o.k. Let us know how things are moving along
 

04_Sport_LS

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I let a auto machine shop do it because they magna fluxed head for cracks

Magnaflux won't work on aluminum heads. That's why I suggested dye penetration.

It's an outside chanuce a bent valve stem is not seating 100% causing a lower comp psi

He replaced both bent exhaust valves... and got compression up to spec. However... the guides may still be an issue.

take off the rocker arm ,

The LS 3.9 mV8 has no rocker arms. Wrong engine.
 

2000sportv8

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Magnaflux won't work on aluminum heads. That's why I suggested dye penetration.



He replaced both bent exhaust valves... and got compression up to spec. However... the guides may still be an issue.



The LS 3.9 mV8 has no rocker arms. Wrong engine.
Yes all new valves. Also when I went back and replaced all the valve steam seals I used compressed air to hold the valve up while I removed the springs. So I know the valves are seating right in the head. Well against the valve seats anyhow.
 

BILLBOATS

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Yes all new valves. Also when I went back and replaced all the valve steam seals I used compressed air to hold the valve up while I removed the springs. So I know the valves are seating right in the head. Well against the valve seats anyhow.
you covered all the bases
 

BILLBOATS

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you covered all the bases
Good point. I try moving the valve side to side to see if it had more play than the others but I can see how that wouldn't be definitive answer. I should have just had the valve guides replaced when I did everything else. I can do a lot at my shop. Have a mill big enough to put a head on. I'm thinking that might be my next choice. At this point im going to keep driving it and see if it clears up. It's getting better but not completely gone. Hoping its just a stuck ring and a vacuum leak that I haven't found yet.
hope for you it turns out to be simple
 

2000sportv8

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Hey guys thanks for all the help. I found out that the rings on cylinder 7 and 3 are shot. I'm going to be pulling the motor. Found one with 19k miles local to me that I was able to steal for $1,300. So a motor swap it is.
 

BILLBOATS

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Hey guys thanks for all the help. I found out that the rings on cylinder 7 and 3 are shot. I'm going to be pulling the motor. Found one with 19k miles local to me that I was able to steal for $1,300. So a motor swap it is.
glad to hear you found the answer
 

2000sportv8

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Sorry to hear that... but looks like you found a silver lining.
Thank you. Not completely sure about the motor yet. It's bought and paid for but found out that the wreck broke the timing cover and cracked a valve cover. Fingers crossed. Just have to wait till it gets here and see how bad the damage is.
 

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