Are any dealers honest these days?

04_Sport_LS

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Well... I just went straight to the horses mouth. I called Fed Mogul/Moog... and they confirmed that they DO NOT make knuckles for the Lincoln LS.

I think I would try to find another indy shop... but I'd also give myself the satisfaction of driving over there and informing them that they're busted. Id ask them just exactly WHAT they were planning on installing??? If it was an honest mistake... they should be apologetic. But if they want to be jerks about it... make a scene in front of a lounge-full of people... just don't get in a fight. :mad:
 

04_Sport_LS

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I'm definitely skeptical because these things make zero noise.

A shimmy in the front end and a shake in the steering wheel at 65-70mph is usually a good indicator of a bad ball joint. Depending on the condition and balance of the rims and tires. Also pending the health of the rest of the suspension system.
 

skizot722

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Wow. I just called back up and they said they aren't even replacing the knuckles. They said it was $200 - per ball joint - for just the ball joint, not knuckle+ball joint! And that they were going to press in the new ball joints into the existing Ford knuckles. I told her the Moog K500085's are only $40 from Amazon (and other places). Why on earth would I pay 5x the price for them? She said that's just what they can get them for. She also said the cheapest they can get the clock spring for (also need that replaced) is $385 for the Dorman! The Dorman is anywhere from $175 - $199 everywhere I looked. This is the hell I'm dealing with right now trying to find a damn place to fix my car. Beyond frustrating.
 

04_Sport_LS

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I'd be curious to know the procedure they were gonna use to replace the ball joints. It's tricky to do it that way.

Those ball joints list for $122 at O'reilly's... and an almost 100% markup is normal... so $200 would be about right.


Either way... I think I'd still move on.
 

skizot722

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Amazon is $40, Rock Auto is $45

MOOG K500085 Ball Joint | RockAuto

O'Reilly is really $122 per?

They also told me that $200 was "their cost", as if they couldn't source them for cheaper. Just smacks of dishonesty to me.

And I guess I'm just getting old, but I don't feel like making profit off of parts, certainly not to the tune of 5x markup, is an honest business practice. But, but, but they all do it isn't an excuse to me.
 
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FDR

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I will. Moog quality has fallen off over the last few years... but they are still better than most of the aftermarket manufacturers.

They added a budget series with RK part numbers. Probably a moog sticker on the same parts from the bin Mevotech grabs from. K/CK=good, RK=generic

They said that the sway bar end links were completely fine, but the noise at low-speed bumps still has me thinking otherwise. I don't like to argue with people, but I feel like they should be able to tell me which brand they're really installing since there's no way they could be Moog. Suggestions?

end links, sway bar bushings, any other ball joint, bushing, rod end, or shock part...

Now I'm sure this procedure has been done successfully without any bending of the knuckles but I wouldn't trust them myself .

I had Moog ball joints pressed in by the Ford dealership I worked at by the former Lincoln tech I trusted. They used new Timken hubs. Overall, the dealership just isn't the place to bring these now. I stopped bringing it. They're geared for new cars a no deviation from the manual and parts chain

A shimmy in the front end and a shake in the steering wheel at 65-70mph is usually a good indicator of a bad ball joint. Depending on the condition and balance of the rims and tires. Also pending the health of the rest of the suspension system.

so you're saying it could be the ball joint...... or any other part.
My bad ball joint didn't shimmy or shake. My bad tires, bad tie rods, and bad wheel balance did.

She also said the cheapest they can get the clock spring for (also need that replaced) is $385 for the Dorman! The Dorman is anywhere from $175 - $199 everywhere I looked.

I went through this at that dealership. Quite often, they were paying the same list price I was (or close to it) once the parts became obsolete, leaving only aftermarket brands. Throw 30-50% markup (or more) on top and it gets upsetting when you know your cost on the part. Once I stopped working there, they became much more reluctant to use my customer-supplied parts. They want cookie cutter work on newer vehicles with a full parts catalog to back it up

I was happy to get OEM parts at cost+10% from them as employee pricing, whereas standard was the same 30-50%. Ironically, they opened an online catalog that just happens to have exactly the same prices. It's higher if you call and ask. I've found my employee pricing is very close to Tasca online, so I assume that's who they're competing against
 

AmsterDutch

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Wow. I just called back up and they said they aren't even replacing the knuckles. They said it was $200 - per ball joint - for just the ball joint, not knuckle+ball joint! And that they were going to press in the new ball joints into the existing Ford knuckles. I told her the Moog K500085's are only $40 from Amazon (and other places). Why on earth would I pay 5x the price for them? She said that's just what they can get them for. She also said the cheapest they can get the clock spring for (also need that replaced) is $385 for the Dorman! The Dorman is anywhere from $175 - $199 everywhere I looked. This is the hell I'm dealing with right now trying to find a damn place to fix my car. Beyond frustrating.
This is what you have to deal with if you're not willing to get your hands dirty...The reason I know how to work on cars is because of the very Mechanics you're talking about ...I just had enough of throwing money to a guy with the same intelligence ...I don't know your situation ...I don't know if you have a garage to work in or tools to perform the work so I get it...if you don't have the resources then I understand why you're looking to out-source the work...but you seem smart enough by your posts to tackle all these repairs ...here is some Rockauto Wholesaler closeout prices for Knuckles if the measurement is 14mm on your knuckles..never heard of this brand but the Motorcraft Knuckle is priced right
QUALIS CA443186
Lower; FRONT LEFT KNUCKLE AND BALL JOINT - 14MM BALL STUD [Wholesaler Closeout - Private Label Pkg. - 30 Day Warranty]



prevIMGbig.png

699_QUALIS_CA443186_1__ra_t.jpg

nextIMGbig.png

$48.99
SAVE 46%
(Regular Price: $459.79)

MOTORCRAFT MEF70 {#4W4Z3K186BA} Info
Front Left; w/ 14mm Thread; Includes Ball Joint [Wholesaler Closeout - Private Label Pkg. - 30 Day Warranty]



4W4Z3K186BA-FRO__ra_t.jpg

$247.79
Add to Cart
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04_Sport_LS

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so you're saying it could be the ball joint...... or any other part.
My bad ball joint didn't shimmy or shake. My bad tires, bad tie rods, and bad wheel balance did.

Well that may be your interpretation. The OP mentioned torn boots, but said everything seemed tight . I was merely pointing out a typical symptom... and if you noticed... I said pending the health of the rest of the suspension system... which I should have added the steering system also.

While your experience may be different... the symptom I suggested was true of my passenger side ball joint... and that symptom has been typical for decades. And I didn't say the ball joint would shimmy and shake... but that a bad ball joint would cause a shimmy in the front end... and a shake in the steering wheel... which normally happens at 65-70mph.

But hey... if I'm in your way, and you wanna run... I'll get on the porch. WOOF!
 

AmsterDutch

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Dutch,

Qualis is just a parts distributor, (of imported parts). Seems they were bought out by Centric sometime in 2017.
Good to know 04_Sport! Yeah I kinda was scratching my head on that ...I'm wishing Rockauto had both Motorcraft Right and Left knuckles on there Wholesaler closeout I would've bought them up real quick
 

Tommy B

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I just replaced front sway bar links, $35 for the pair, took about a half hour, and that's taking my time. Simple.

Just recently a Jiffy Lube quoted my GF $400 to replace worn front brake pads on her 2016 Hyundai. Took me longer to jack the car and put the tools away then it did to pull the wheels and 4 caliper bolts and replace the pads myself, for the $30 cost of the pads.

I trust (almost) none of them.
 

skizot722

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Yeah, I have no problem doing the sway bar links and will do so in the next few weeks. But the ball joints / knuckles are a different story.
 

joegr

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Yeah, I have no problem doing the sway bar links and will do so in the next few weeks. But the ball joints / knuckles are a different story.

There really isn't much to replacing a front knuckle. You do need to get new hardware (Nyloc nuts), and you will need to get a new alignment done (though it should be close enough to be able to drive to the alignment shop without trouble). I'd replace the brake pads at the same time, if the current ones are more than half consumed.
 

skizot722

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The shops were telling me 3 hours of labor for the front knuckles. Which means it'd probably be a 5 hour job for me :D. Does anyone have the procedure from the manual for that?
 

AmsterDutch

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The shops were telling me 3 hours of labor for the front knuckles. Which means it'd probably be a 5 hour job for me :D. Does anyone have the procedure from the manual for that?
Depending how rusted or Galvanized both Hub assemblies are onto the Knuckle ....if you decide to do this simple procedure ...I suggest purchasing new Hub assemblies you can get a good aftermarket pair from Ebay/Amazon for $80 dollars or Cheaper ...That is $80 for two/pair you can't go wrong ...if you have the new knuckles it would be a piece of cake to slip the new Hub assemblies into them remember rotors are cheap also and as Joe said pads wouldn't hurt ...while your in there use some white lithium grease for the caliper pins and freshen everything up ...the upper control arms last quite a while usually so you may be good ...being your from the MidWest like me take advantage of the nice weather and save some money
 

joegr

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...the upper control arms last quite a while usually so you may be good ...

Yes, but the dust boots don't. This would also be a great time to put new dust boots on the upper ball joints.
 

clubairth

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I have to agree that unless you can DIY the repairs (and this forum has EVERYTHING you need to do it). I would get rid of the car. It's worth nothing now as a 17 year old car with 91k miles on it.

You will spend a fortune at the dealer or independent and the odds of finding someone who knows anything about a Lincoln LS is almost zero at this time. So the repairs will NOT be done properly. We had problems with this way back when the car was new and it's only worse now.
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skizot722

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I have to agree that unless you can DIY the repairs (and this forum has EVERYTHING you need to do it). I would get rid of the car. It's worth nothing now as a 17 year old car with 91k miles on it.

You will spend a fortune at the dealer or independent and the odds of finding someone who knows anything about a Lincoln LS is almost zero at this time. So the repairs will NOT be done properly. We had problems with this way back when the car was new and it's only worse now.
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But guess what? My monthly car payment is $0. If I buy a new vehicle, I'm looking at $500 a month, minimum, depending on what I get. Three months of car payments is a minimum of $1500. To me, it still makes sense financially to keep the car.
 

04_Sport_LS

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I would get rid of the car. It's worth nothing now as a 17 year old car with 91k miles on it.

skizot,

For the reason stated above... I will give the generous offer of $500 for your LS... just for the fact of taking that burdensome vehicle off your hands.

Just kidding...

In all seriousness, if you maintain the LS... you could get another 17 years and 91k out of it, ( if it survives the rust belt).

By then... at 34 years old... it will definitely be a "classic". ( like how I snuck that in there Dutch? :D)
 

HyeLifeLS

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Why don’t you just buy the parts then have a shop or a local individual mechanic replace em?

You can buy good motorcraft parts from ebay or rockauto, ball joints yes buy a pair that is 80$ or so non motorcraft and have someone swap everything out.

Sway bar end links are super easy to change out, ball joints not so.
 

skizot722

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Why don’t you just buy the parts then have a shop or a local individual mechanic replace em?

You can buy good motorcraft parts from ebay or rockauto, ball joints yes buy a pair that is 80$ or so non motorcraft and have someone swap everything out.

Sway bar end links are super easy to change out, ball joints not so.

Because no shops will take customer parts around here. It's not just that they won't warranty the work, they just flat out won't do it if you bring in your own parts. I guess it makes sense when they're charging 100-500% markup on parts. :confused:
 

HyeLifeLS

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Because no shops will take customer parts around here. It's not just that they won't warranty the work, they just flat out won't do it if you bring in your own parts. I guess it makes sense when they're charging 100-500% markup on parts. :confused:

Find a local individual mechanic who will charge just labor and have him swap parts for you. I am sure one is available.
 

skizot722

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Find a local individual mechanic who will charge just labor and have him swap parts for you. I am sure one is available.

They're harder to find than you'd think. All I can find in my town is stealerships and independent shops.
 

jerrym3

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No, most dealers are not honest. I just had an experience with a local Ford dealer.

I went with my wife to look at a 2019 Ford Escape that my daughter had seen and liked. We negotiated a price, and I gave them a $500 credit to hold the car for her to finalize the deal on the next day. Sales rep gave me a printout showing the bottom line minus the $500 credit.

When she showed up the next day with check in hand, they told her that they had already credited my account, and she'd have to come up with the $500 deposit, which she did. But, after checking with my credit card company everyday for a week, we learned that they hadn't issued a credit.

Then, they refused to return my phone calls. In fact, when I called them and dialed "1" for sales, I was automatically forwarded to the sales rep's voice mailbox. I didn't even need to tell a "live" person who I wanted to speak with!! They had programmed my number automatically to his mailbox so that he didn't have to answer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I was able to leave messages for the sales manager, but he didn't return my calls either.

Finally, after my daughter replied with all the gory details to their "how did we do?" customer service department emails, I got a call from the sales manager, he processed the credit, and I went to the dealer to get the hard copy, which I now have.

Did they really think that I was just going to write this off as a "oh, well, I'll be more careful next time"? Now they lost a shot at selling us a new car that we need to replace our LS, and any service revenue from her car.

This is the 5th Ford I've bought off this dealer going back to 1972. Never had this problem before.

As they say, all's fair in love, war, and selling/servicing cars. Making a profit is one thing; blatantly cheating is another.

My credit card bill came today. It showed one $500 credit, so the first credit, which my dealer told me they put through, was BS. They lied. They never put the first credit through.

How did they think that they were going to get away with outright theft? No wonder this dealership gets a "D" from the Better Business Bureau.
 

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