Angry computers? Random codes. No start.

Ryanthelsman

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Me again, so a few weeks ago after i had finally started putting miles on my car (almost 100) the car shut off on its own and wouldn’t start. It sat for a while as i was stumped. We scanned it and got these new codes p0010, p0020, p0135, p0155, p0403 , p1233, p1700, p2106 , p2135… complete system meltdown. We cleared the codes and it started just fine and ran better than iv ever seen it run. Anyways it was fine for another week but shut down again on the street! None of the codes above were present on the second shut off other than the p0010 and p0020 codes. (Camshaft sensor codes) and in the same day we cleared them again so i could Drive it up the street to my house it turn off in my driveway as i pulled in with no new codes.


I found that one of the “manufacturer” codes (either the p1700 or p1233) can be caused by a faulty ignition coil and cause havoc in the computer system. I changed the “misfire” labeled coil and we cleared the codes hopefully for the final time and it wouldnt clear… no lights went away temporarily and its still soft locked.

I have the battery disconnected for the night to try and start it tomorrow.

Could this be due to the computer learning to not give up the codes so fast? Haha.

But most importantly could the canshaft sensor codes be causing all the errors and shut offs?


04 ls, v8, 89k miles
 

Birdie

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Oh gosh man, Im so sorry :( no advice or insight for ya but mines doing dumb shit too right now. Throttle went slack and quit responding while I was driving it, then it wouldnt restart at all just starts up for a second and immediately dies. No lights. No codes. Nothing. 2003 V8, 46k miles.
What the absolute heck though... I sincerely hope it gets sorted out for you and me both. Are you going to send yours to a shop?? I cant even imagine what would be going on with it
 

Ryanthelsman

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UPDATE:
So a week or so has passed and iv tried some fixes and have made zero progress.

1. I replaced the ignition coil i had to reuse as iv heard it could freak the car out and nothing has changed.
2. Changed camshaft sensor “B” as its been a code for a bit and seing if it was preventing the starting and zero change.
3. Reset the fuel pump with the Inertia valve. Did it twice a little time in between and again NOTHING!
4. I also left the battery disconnected for 4 days straight and the car remembered everything and has all the lights. And still. Wont. Start.

Is this a specific computer issue i need to address? Like reseting the PCM or replacing other system parts? Starting to think the cars just freaked out and im not sure how to calm it down.
 

joegr

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You need to get past this idea that the problem is something stored in the PCM that needs to be cleared, it is not. You have real problem(s) that need to be resolved. BTW, P0010 is not a cam sensor code. It's an open circuit code for one of the cam timing actuators. In itself, it's not a factor in the car not starting/running.
The code combination suggests wiring harness fault(s) or a bad PCM, though this assumes that you don't just have multiple unrelated failures that you let build up. Forscan would likely get you more data to go on.

Also not the P0020 is not saying the sensor is bad, it's saying that the cam timing is wrong relative to the crank.
How about doing some compression tests?
 

Ryanthelsman

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Another update:

Compression test was good. All cylinders were solid. We checked every fuse in the car and all were working fine. Trunk, passenger side, and engine bay fuses. Checked the connections and wiring harness for issues and all was good but broke the throttle body connector as the clip broke off in my hands. Gonna get a new end and fix it in a day or two.

Additionally the OBD2 scanner has zero codes and says the car is fine while the dash is lit up with the same lights as before.
 

joegr

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...Additionally the OBD2 scanner has zero codes and says the car is fine while the dash is lit up with the same lights as before.
Most scanners don't pick up most of the codes and data that the LS provides. The lights are on, the codes are there. As mentioned before, you need to use Forscan. It's free.
 

Ryanthelsman

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I downloaded Forscan and did the scan. This is what i got back… (also note this car was in an accident a few years back and the accident part is most likely from then.)
 

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AmsterDutch

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I downloaded Forscan and did the scan. This is what i got back… (also note this car was in an accident a few years back and the accident part is most likely from then.)
Hopefully your battery isn't the problem ...what is your battery registering on the multi-meter and while Forscan is hooked up? What is your generator percentage on the forscan dashboard?
 

Ryanthelsman

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I cant seem to find that information anywhere on the app. We know its not a battery issue (battery itself) because the car will crank and crank and crank just fine. And all the lights work and such. We sprayed starter straight into the throttle body today and tried starting it and nothing. Seems like theres no spark. I will be checking the spark plugs in the next few days. If its not that then it must be a wiring issue hm?
 

milehighmikey

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Easy test -- pull a COP and put a spark plug into it, ground the plug as it would be when installed, plug the COP into the harness and crank it to see if there is spark. If not firing with starting fluid, you definitely do not have spark. This test should prove that, then you can work your way backwards to why there is no power to the COPs. Since the COPs (I believe) are driven by the PCM, there probably is not much in between the COPs and the PCM that could go wrong. Also check your battery voltage while cranking, if you cannot find the value in forescan.
 

AmsterDutch

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I cant seem to find that information anywhere on the app. We know its not a battery issue (battery itself) because the car will crank and crank and crank just fine. And all the lights work and such. We sprayed starter straight into the throttle body today and tried starting it and nothing. Seems like theres no spark. I will be checking the spark plugs in the next few days. If its not that then it must be a wiring issue hm?
Did you check the COP's relay or fuse in the engine compartment fuse box I had a similar issue once and found my relay/fuse was blown easy to swap a different relay/fuse with a different one
 

Ryanthelsman

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Update:

No spark.
We did the coil test, one on each bank and nothing. The battery voltage is fine and still cranks fine.

With some research i saw it could potentially be a failed CRANKSHAFT position sensor, if the sensors out it wont allow spark as it dosnt know where the pistons are. I’ll will try some diagnostics i found with that next and probably some suggestions.
 

joegr

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Forscan would show you if the crank sensor is indicating while the starter is engaged.
 

Ryanthelsman

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Well..
I did a scan with Forscan again and it still says theres no codes and no real useful information. So we got the car jacked up and tested the sensor manually with a multimeter and had good voltage when the car was cranking. (Over a full volt it would bounce from i believe)

Could this be the pcm failing or failed? Im aware i keep pointing my finger at it but the car running when the codes were cleared, unresponsive obd2 with no codes, random lack of spark, and all tested sensors working as intended, it just seems like the case idk. everything else seems to be good. We also additionally checked wiring for frayed bits and such and all seemed well. (Visually)

Also random side question but do any of the LS’s have an oil pan gasket or just metal on metal. Mine has developed an oil leak and I believe its just the pan. It seems to have taken a hard hit at some point so it could just be bent in a weird way.
 

joegr

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Well..
I did a scan with Forscan again and it still says theres no codes and no real useful information. ...
So does Forscan show the crank moving? That would tell you if the PCM was correctly reading the working sensor.
Also random side question but do any of the LS’s have an oil pan gasket or just metal on metal. Mine has developed an oil leak and I believe its just the pan. It seems to have taken a hard hit at some point so it could just be bent in a weird way.
The lower oil pan has a rubber gasket.
Above that where the bottom of the part of the block attaches to the rest of the block, it has just some sort of gasket maker applied and no actual gasket.
The most common and most problematic oil leak for older 3.9s seems to be the front timing cover gasket. (It'll look like it's coming from the pan.)
 

Ryanthelsman

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I must be missing something. Where in the app do i go to see this information. I can gladly send ss of what im seeing as well. Because i havnt seen anything in the app that would tell me this stuff. Just vehicle manufacturer information, a log space, and errors.

Also thanks for the leak help! That sounds about right i’ll look at it once the cars actually running again.
 

joegr

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It's actually been a few years since I have used Forscan. It's somewhere under live data. You should probably go to the Forscan Forum and ask there.
 

Ryanthelsman

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I looked into it and looks like they dont sell the app with the monitoring tools anymore.
I could get it for my laptop and use that but i would have to spend 60 on a cord and probably get the same unresponsive obd2 issue i have with the bluetooth one i’m currently using.

is it possible that the car sitting for a few year’s without a battery nor starting (+disconnecting the new battery many time’s without driving the car) could screw with the PCM or other related systems? Any easy tests to see of its a computer issue?
 

joegr

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I only ever used the PC version. I never even thought of the phone version.
 

Ryanthelsman

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Well I finally tested the battery voltage as some last ditch efforts, since a low battery could cause pcm malfunctions. And ofc it actually was low. Read only 11.2v. So i charged it for a few days and put it back in the car. Cranked even healthier but still no start. Did a scan again and still no codes. Just the p1000 “failed emissions”

Curse you early 2000 technology
 

clubairth

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I would put a new battery in and then find out why the car is draining it when off?
As you have read these cars and really all modern cars are battery eaters and very sensitive to battery condition. Normal battery load testers do not give you an all clear signal. So again do not rule out the battery until it has been replaced with a new one regardless of how much you have been charging it.
Whenever you see a bunch of codes always supect the battery first. It's very unlikely your car has all those problems at the same time.

P1000 does NOT mean "Failed Emissions"!
It means the driving monitors have been reset because you cleared the codes. So you want to to see P1000 every time you clear codes. This will eventually resolve itself and then you will have P1111 which means the driving monitors have been set and you can now go for emissions testing.

Again we need all the info on your problem and I see where you mention the car has been sitting for several years? This is a HUGE red flag!! Why was it sitting?
There is a good possibility that the fuel pump is now bad because of this. Have you changed the fuel filter? If not plan too.

Your making progress so stay with it! Chase down that electrical problem so you have spark while cranking. I can't tell for sure but with the car sitting I would plan on a complete replacement of all 8 coils and all 8 plugs too. But let's get it started first!
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AmsterDutch

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"I would put a new battery in and then find out why the car is draining it when off?"
Agree...and was the COPs fuse good did you swap it around?
 

Ryanthelsman

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never been so embarrassed saying i fixed somthing…

THE CAR RUNS!! And all it took was a ziptie!

What was it? The wiring harness was unplugged..

I was going through random bits and ends to see if i could find something, and i saw one if the main wiring harness connections in the engine bay had the little red locking switch open. So i put my hand on it and it fell right out… the red locker was broken and wouldn’t close and was jammed open. So after ziptieing the connection together i put the key in and BOOM instantly started without even cranking. Iv drivin the car around a bit and seems to be fixed may have even fixed the random stalling. Must have just been backing out of the port far enough to cut spark when stopping. OBD2 is now communicating again and iv never been happier to see codes.

And to answer you clubairth, it only sat for around 2 years. And all 8 coils were immediately changed and been working great.
 

clubairth

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Hey no problem and I wish my repairs were as good as yours!
Congratulations on a simple but effective repair!
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