After Pat’s Birthday

Politics & Current Events

  1. 97silverlsc

    97silverlsc Dedicated LVC Member

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    After Pat’s Birthday

    http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/200601019_after_pats_birthday/
    By Kevin Tillman

    Editor’s note: Kevin Tillman joined the Army with his brother Pat in 2002, and they served together in Iraq and Afghanistan. Pat was killed in Afghanistan on April 22, 2004. Kevin, who was discharged in 2005, has written a powerful, must-read document.



    It is Pat’s birthday on November 6, and elections are the day after. It gets me thinking about a conversation I had with Pat before we joined the military. He spoke about the risks with signing the papers. How once we committed, we were at the mercy of the American leadership and the American people. How we could be thrown in a direction not of our volition. How fighting as a soldier would leave us without a voice… until we get out.

    Much has happened since we handed over our voice:

    Somehow we were sent to invade a nation because it was a direct threat to the American people, or to the world, or harbored terrorists, or was involved in the September 11 attacks, or received weapons-grade uranium from Niger, or had mobile weapons labs, or WMD, or had a need to be liberated, or we needed to establish a democracy, or stop an insurgency, or stop a civil war we created that can’t be called a civil war even though it is. Something like that.



    Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is.

    Somehow our elected leaders were subverting international law and humanity by setting up secret prisons around the world, secretly kidnapping people, secretly holding them indefinitely, secretly not charging them with anything, secretly torturing them. Somehow that overt policy of torture became the fault of a few “bad apples” in the military.

    Somehow back at home, support for the soldiers meant having a five-year-old kindergartener scribble a picture with crayons and send it overseas, or slapping stickers on cars, or lobbying Congress for an extra pad in a helmet. It’s interesting that a soldier on his third or fourth tour should care about a drawing from a five-year-old; or a faded sticker on a car as his friends die around him; or an extra pad in a helmet, as if it will protect him when an IED throws his vehicle 50 feet into the air as his body comes apart and his skin melts to the seat.

    Somehow the more soldiers that die, the more legitimate the illegal invasion becomes.

    Somehow American leadership, whose only credit is lying to its people and illegally invading a nation, has been allowed to steal the courage, virtue and honor of its soldiers on the ground.

    Somehow those afraid to fight an illegal invasion decades ago are allowed to send soldiers to die for an illegal invasion they started.

    Somehow faking character, virtue and strength is tolerated.

    Somehow profiting from tragedy and horror is tolerated.

    Somehow the death of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people is tolerated.

    Somehow subversion of the Bill of Rights and The Constitution is tolerated.

    Somehow suspension of Habeas Corpus is supposed to keep this country safe.

    Somehow torture is tolerated.

    Somehow lying is tolerated.

    Somehow reason is being discarded for faith, dogma, and nonsense.

    Somehow American leadership managed to create a more dangerous world.

    Somehow a narrative is more important than reality.

    Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is.

    Somehow the most reasonable, trusted and respected country in the world has become one of the most irrational, belligerent, feared, and distrusted countries in the world.

    Somehow being politically informed, diligent, and skeptical has been replaced by apathy through active ignorance.

    Somehow the same incompetent, narcissistic, virtueless, vacuous, malicious criminals are still in charge of this country.

    Somehow this is tolerated.

    Somehow nobody is accountable for this.

    In a democracy, the policy of the leaders is the policy of the people. So don’t be shocked when our grandkids bury much of this generation as traitors to the nation, to the world and to humanity. Most likely, they will come to know that “somehow” was nurtured by fear, insecurity and indifference, leaving the country vulnerable to unchecked, unchallenged parasites.

    Luckily this country is still a democracy. People still have a voice. People still can take action. It can start after Pat’s birthday.



    Brother and Friend of Pat Tillman,

    Kevin Tillman



    For all you Shrubbites, I think the term you like to use that applies here is "*owned* "
     
  2. MonsterMark

    MonsterMark Dedicated LVC Member

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    First, thank you Kevin for serving.

    I just have to wonder what type of letter you will write when 10's of thousands of innocent Americans , or even your Mom and Dad, are blown up and incinerated because your newly elected Democrat leaders failed to protect us AT ALL COSTS. Should make for some interesting reading. I'll patiently wait for your reply that is inevitable.
     
  3. Marcus

    Marcus Dedicated LVC Member

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    (HALF-DRUNKEN RANT FOLLOWS)

    There it is again: "AT ALL COSTS". What the hell does that mean to you? Just how far are you willing to go to feel "safe"? How many constitutional amendments should be suspended (I know you won't give up the Second)? How many treaties and international agreements should we break? Should the president be completely immune from all our cumbersome laws so that he can go about his business unhindered? Because the impression I get from all you false "patriots" is that there is absolutely nothing that should hold us back in order to achieve "victory". Fools.

    Do you think for one minute that Osama bin Laden and all his minions have the ability to destroy this nation? The answer to that is HELL NO. The only people who can accomplish that are the American people. How? By handing over more and more of our rights to our government and turning us into a fortress/military-state, all in the name of "safety". What I fear most from the next terrorist attack isn't the loss of life, it's the loss of what remains of our rights and freedoms and the abandonment of our most sacred values, as cowards like you gladly hand them over to the state. If it's true that Osama hates us for our freedoms, then he will have successfully eliminated them, and HE will be the victor.

    I would rather DIE a free man than LIVE as a subject to the state. I REFUSE to live in a constant state of fear, to have it exploited by a bunch of power-grabbing, corrupt, war-profiteering, greedy-beyond-all-recognition, un-American motherfcukers who put more effort into sustaining their own power than into the actual well-being of the American people. Make no mistake: I'm talking about your beloved Republicans and the incompetant, single-minded, pathologically-certain-of-his-own-infallibility, I-won't-change-my-mind-even-if-Barney-is-against-me, buffoon George W. Bush and the men he answers to (it ain't God).

    It's too bad that Communist Russia had to collapse, because I think you'd all be much more comfortable there, where they weren't afraid to keep the nation secure AT ALL COSTS.


    I may regret posting this later, but for now I reserve the right to hold off on any apologies until I feel it is justified.
     
  4. JohnnyBz00LS

    JohnnyBz00LS Dedicated LVC Member

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    :Beer :I
     
  5. fossten

    fossten Dedicated LVC Member

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    It means taking casualties, which is more than the Democrats are willing to do. Rather, they'd gladly give in to Islamofascism. The ironic part is that people like you will be the first executed under Islam.
    Name one that has been suspended.
    Name one that has been broken.
    Name one that he is immune to.
    The only fools here are you liberals, who believe that talking to our enemies and cutting and running from Iraq will somehow make these Islamofascist babykillers suddenly peaceful toward us.
    Wrong. You forget that on 9/11, three thousand people were murdered at one time by this man. Do you realize that France and Spain have already capitulated to Islam? Already our newspapers are afraid to print things offensive to Muslims. You apparently don't realize that there is more than one way to conquer a country. You also won't acknowledge that we are in a war, and apparently you are okay with a few thousand Americans at a time being killed, as long as the Democrats can be in power. What an admission to make! The fact that you would rather wreck the country than admit that your party doesn't deserve to win elections!
    Name any and all American rights that the Republicans have handed over to the government.
    That's a shame. The fact that Americans being brutally murdered doesn't concern you just shows how ignorant and anti-American you are.
    I challenge you to look yourself in the mirror and try and figure out exactly which freedoms YOU PERSONALLY have given up so far. You won't find one.

    Our sacred values include freedom of religion, which the muslims wish to take away by virtue of attacking us and trying to scare us.
    Only if your friends the pacifist Democrats are in charge.
    Out of phase. Nothing but a nonsensical rant that has no basis in fact.

    As compared with the finger in the air, do whatever it takes to keep my poll numbers up, fair weather governance of the coward Bill Clinton, who got us into this mess in the first place by his refusal to confront an enemy bent on our destruction?

    You, sir, need to stop drinking the Kool-Aid, and wake up and smell the coffee. The only people bent on destroying your rights besides the terrorists are the Democrats. They are the ones who have opposed every single initiative designed to keep us safe and free, from SDI to school vouchers, from drilling for our own oil to murdering babies.
    Once again, you've got everything completely backwards and out of phase. The fact is that it was a Republican president who defeated the Soviet Union. Democrat presidents like Carter, who is a disgrace, operated appeasement tactics which only strengthened such dictatorships. The terrorists will react no differently to these tactics which your pacifist friends in the Democrat party wish to employ.

    If they had had their way in the 40's, all of Europe would be under the Nazis right now. Thank God we have a President who will not cower to people like you who want to undermine this country for the sake of politics.

    I doubt that you will regret posting this. Since you have now aligned yourself with the most extreme wackos on this site, such as Johnny and Phil, you have exposed yourself (no Clinton pun intended) as a wacko yourself. I wish I could be there for the tinfoil crowning ceremony, but I have better things to do. And now that I know what you are and what you believe, I have no further desire to attempt to debate you in a good faith manner, considering you have no desire to actually learn anything new. Bryan was right about you: Your mind is made up, and you are on the side of the enemy, and as such you will be treated like one.

    See you in the Second Civil War.
     
  6. MonsterMark

    MonsterMark Dedicated LVC Member

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    Yep, just like I've said, it's coming. All the signs are here. We are going to need to win the battle over here before we are gonna win any battles over there.

    Would I fight my own countrymen? Hell ya. To get rid of the cancer, sometimes you have to cut it out yourself. Just listen to guys like TommyB to see how dangerously close we are to falling off the edge.

    The time is near. Conservatives and other American loving people will be forced to fight back.

    Trust me, you will. After I wake up and calm down, you'll feel the wrath. It is people like you that need to wake the hell up. What's wrong with you?

    BTW, there are many kinds of cancer....

    Haven't discovered a name for this one yet.

    gay6_jpg.jpg
     
  7. fossten

    fossten Dedicated LVC Member

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    Eww...that chick isn't even hot...

    We need a "barf" smilie, don't you think?
     
  8. Calabrio

    Calabrio Dedicated LVC Member

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    Kevin Tillman served the military and is related to someone who died in Afghanistan.

    I'd write a response, but then I just remembered the political left's application of the docrtine of the Infallible. And, by design, I'm not allowed to comment.
     
  9. Marcus

    Marcus Dedicated LVC Member

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    So what I said pissed a few of you off huh? Good. I'll address some of your replies soon, but right now I'm to tired to get into it, as these things tend to exhaust me.

    I will say this though: I want to preserve the things that have made this country great. Our laws, our basic principles and values. Mostly our Constitution. Granted I went about my argument in a rather bellicose way. That's because I'm pissed too. I'm damned sick and tired of being being on the defensive. Of having words put in my mouth. Of being accused of all of the things you've accused me of. It's all BS.

    Two of you talk about taking up arms against your own countrymen and embarking in a civil war.

    And I'M the radical? What's wrong with YOU?
     
  10. fossten

    fossten Dedicated LVC Member

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    You know nothing about the Constitution. I'll bet you don't even know how many amendments there are in the Bill of Rights without looking it up.

    And if you had half a brain, you'd have the sense to check previous threads where we've discussed a possible civil war in our future, thanks to the extreme hatred of the left.

    But go ahead, show your ass. Nobody cares what you think anyway, moonbat.
     
  11. fossten

    fossten Dedicated LVC Member

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    What's wrong with ME? What's wrong with YOUR PEOPLE?

    Send The Chauffeur To The Barricades At Once!
    http://bluecrabboulevard.com/2006/10/20/send-the-chauffeur-to-the-barricades-at-once/

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lyn-lear/why-is-the-white-house-so_b_32121.html

    O.M.G. This is a joke, right? Lyn Davis Lear, wife of television producer Norman Lear has some analysis of the nation and what should be done if the Democrats don't take control of the whole world and buy everyone a pony n November.

    When I asked Gore Vidal at dinner why the White House seemed so serene and at ease about the vote, he replied that, this time around, the Bush-Cheney henchmen could simply call on martial law. He glumly noted that we are so far down the road toward totalitarianism that, even if Democrats do win back the Congress, it would take at least two generations before the last six years of damage to the nation could be reversed. Gore frankly despaired that any amount of time could ever return the country to where and what it previously was. This prediction left me reaching for some Fernet Branca.

    Yeah, I know what you mean, Lyn. I read that hyperventilating hyperbole and reached for a beer. And pretzels. Although it may take several generations for me to get over laughing this hard at the complete and utter insanity that passes for deep political thought on the left.

    We all know the neocons won't cede power easily. They have to be aware that if the tide of Congress turns, Bush's last two years will be mired in gridlock and perhaps even be punctuated by several embarrassing congressional investigations. Of course, Cheney did say last week that everything in Iraq is hunky dory, which leads one to believe that after James Baker's devastating report and the escalating mass destruction of the war, Dickey-boy has simply lost it. But whether it is hubris, loony tunes, or both, the White House's freakish calm about the elections makes me as nervous as the hell we seem to be headed for. Therefore we should all be on alert. If for whatever reason we don't win back Congress in November the only real answer will be to take to the streets.

    That's right Lyn, incite rioting and whatnot. Send in all the hired help and those you can convince. You really won't need the chauffeur if the streets are blocked anyway.

    Because you sure as heck won't see Mrs. Norman Lear at a shabby barricade. Might break a nail. Besides, much too far away from the Fernet Branca.



    What do you have to say about that, TommyB? What about these replies?

    By: bogi666 on October 20, 2006 at 07:07am
    Flag: [abusive]

    I'd be calm, too. They have the press, and they have the money, and, as always, they're in the position to make whatever news they want to make, to control the headlines. And yes, they have Diebold, and they have members of their own party overseeing the elections in the majority of states and the majority of districts. Couple that with the fact that, thanks to both the extreme concentration of Democratic voters in urban areas and Delay-type gerrymandering, Dems need to win by a landslide just to break even in both houses. So why worry?
    They're not going anywhere, I'm afraid.
    Get ready to take to the streets.

    By: youcantgetfooledagain on October 20, 2006 at 06:51am
    Flag: [abusive]

    GORE VIDAL IS MOSTLY RIGHT. THANK GOD THE SIXTIES CAME ALONG TO SPEED US OUT OF MCCARTHY.WHAT WILL COME ALONG TO SPEED THE RECOVERY FROM BUSH I DO NOT KNOW.IT WOULD BE NICE TO THINK AN INFORMED ELECTORATE BUT I BELEIVE THAT IS A PIPE DREAM.ROVE IS CONFIDENT POSSIBLY BECAUSE OF DIEBOLD ET AL BUT THIS IS NOT A COUPLE VOTES TO SWING AN ELECTION.IN THE EVENT OF MASSIVE VOTER FRAUD EVEN THE MORONIC REPORTERS WHO GENERALLY MISS EVERYTHING WILL PICK THIS UP.I THINK THAT ROVE IS OVERLY CONFIDENT FOR TWO REASONS1TO NOT SHOW CONFIDENCE WOULD DEPRESS THE VOTERS THEY DO HAVE FROM SHOWING UP2HE MAY SINCERELY BELEIVE THAT THE :q:q:q:q HE HAS DONE FOR THE LAST SIX YEARS WILL TRIUMPH IN THE END.THE POLITICS OF DIVISION.I BELEIVE IF HE BELEIVES THE SECOND ONE HE IS IN EXTREME DENIAL.NOV 7 WILL TELL.AS TO YOUR LAST POINT OF TAKING TO THE STREETS I AM A CHILD OF THE SIXTIES SO YOU KNOW I AM WITH YOU.

    By: OutragedMom on October 20, 2006 at 07:16am
    Flag: [abusive]

    My gut instinct tells me it's not one or the other of the factors mentioned in this post. It is truly a combintion of all of these elements. If exit polls are again drastically different from the election outcomes, I'll be the first one you'll see 'taking it to the streets'. Especially the street where the CEO of Diebold lives. For there won't be any reasonable doubt left that 'fixing elections' has become a standard operating proceedure of the Republican party. And that will leave us with only one alternative: REVOLUTION.

    By: alabala1 on October 20, 2006 at 07:55am
    Flag: [abusive]

    They won't give up power. Perhaps they are willing to let the Democrats have the ball at this dire point because two years is not enough time to pull off the miracles that are needed. Especially if the Dems are also preoccupied with investigations, hearings, etc. Come 2008 they will argue that the Repubs can do what the Dems couldn't, and with a little help from Diebold...there you go, the dynesty is restored.

    We will have to take to the streets.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I, as I'm sure many of our readers do, feel helpless while we watch what's about to happen unfold. They are going to cheat.

    Why can't "V" be a real person. The politcal overtones and paralles between that movie and what is happening to us are so similiar. But unlike the movie, we have no hero to save us and, therefore, we will have no happy ending.
    By: DrSteve on October 20, 2006 at 10:04am
    Flag: [abusive]
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Yes, I'm ready to hit the streets - and I'm generally a dweeb, so this would be a hallmark moment for me.

    As the Jefferson Starship said, "Sign me up as a diplomat; my only office is the park!"

    Never have so many butts needed so much kicking.
    By: truenginehearing on October 20, 2006 at 10:08am
    Flag: [abusive]
     
  12. TheDude

    TheDude Dedicated LVC Member

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    "Civil War" this "Civil War" that, both you and Fossten shouldn't call or imply anyone else is insane with rants like that.

    And the "cancer" you speak off would be 'Gay Pride', nice to know you think homosexuals are a disease Herr MonsterMark.
     
  13. fossten

    fossten Dedicated LVC Member

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    Before you post, you really should read the post right above yours so you don't look like a complete imbecile.
     
  14. MonsterMark

    MonsterMark Dedicated LVC Member

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    Yep. We are heading towards a civil war in this here very Country. Don't like it? Too bad. Quit supporting lefty lunacy.

    'Gay Pride'??? You mean the sick twisted people up on that 'float'? Ya, I'll stick by my comment. See, homosexual activity is a don't ask, don't tell thing for me. If they keep it in private and behind closed doors, hey, go for it. Pump away. But when they stick their sick, twisted behavior in front of my face, it crosses the line. Is homosexuality 'normal'? Nope, something has gone wrong in our genes. Maybe it is not cancer that caused it, maybe it was Halliburton chemicals from the late 40's. Maybe we do need that embryonic stem cell research after all.

    And these 'floaters' are the people that have taken over the Democratic Party. Go host a party for them. I'm sure it will be a gay 'ol time. And put your gayly elected San Francisco wacko Nancy P in control of the House while you're at it too.

    I have actually no problem with the Dems winning in November. If they win in November, you can bet your bottom dollar they (Dems) will lose in '08. A lot of people haven't seen who the represents the new Democrat Party. When they finally do see it in all it's glory, they'll give the Republicans another 12 years. So I'll surrender the next 2 for the next 12 no problem. Bush will handle things over the next 2 years just fine. He's got the balls to stand up to them (libs) and will.
     
  15. fossten

    fossten Dedicated LVC Member

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    I have to disagree with you here. I think the Dems can wreak terrible havoc on this country in two years. They can make it impossible for Bush to appoint judges that will overturn Roe v. Wade. They can impeach Bush and Cheney, which would make Pelosi President de facto. They can enact legislation that gets people like Hannity and Rush off the air. They can and will defund the Iraq war, forcing Bush to bring our troops home, and abandoning the Iraqis to the mercilessness of the Iran dictator.

    Defeat is NEVER a good strategy when you're trying to win.
     
  16. TheDude

    TheDude Dedicated LVC Member

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    And only a complete imbecile would take the rants of an anonymous "Outraged Mom" and a few others as a serious threat to a Civil War.
     
  17. MonsterMark

    MonsterMark Dedicated LVC Member

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    Normally I would agree but the way the media has propped up the Democratic Party, something drastic has to happen.

    Look at where we are at.

    Low inflation
    Low Unemployment
    Lower Energy
    High Profits
    High Stock Market
    No terrorist attacks
    New drug plan
    New school plan
    Split Supreme Court
    On and on

    This election should be a blowout for the Republicans except for the fact that the media has been bombing away for 5 years now. Incessantly. People have no idea what they are getting themselves into. The Democratic Party was hijacked and nobody cares because they blindly vote Dem no matter what. The people leading that party are the far fringers. They should scare all Americans but the smoke screen put up by the liberal MSM has all but clouded the uniformed's vision.

    So just like in '92/'93, the American people need to see who these people really are. What their policies really are. What they really think. The Left always lies to get into office. We need to pull the masks off once they are in and then put them out of office for good. Just think what might have happened had Clinton and Clinton had a chance to run amoke with their legislation for an additional 6 years? People finally woke up in '94 and buried them. I believe a repeat will occur in '08 if the Dems win this time around in '07. People will see the stupid legislation they will put forth. Bush will slap it down. Nothing will happen in '07 and '08 except we will get weaker in our foreign policy. Businesses will get prepared for the upcoming tax increases and the economy will go in the tank. I even bet that Bush won't get the blame for it. The Dems will and they will quickly get voted out of power once again and hopefully this time for good. Another 2 years of the new media buildup and we will finally be able to turn off the liberal MSM smoke machine.
     
  18. MonsterMark

    MonsterMark Dedicated LVC Member

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    Who is more like ly to go marching around protesting... The left or the right?

    Thought so.

    Believe me, lot's of lefties have nothing better to do than march around like a flock of sheeple. We'll see the protests on the local news just like what happened with the Cindy Sheehan crowd.
     
  19. TheDude

    TheDude Dedicated LVC Member

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    Maybe a few conservatives will band together, arm themselves and go out and shoot a few people, most likely gays and E. Indians that they perceive as "Islmo-Fascist Terrorist", but that will be about it.

    I agree, it should be kept behind doors and be private, but if it wasn't for the conservatives waging their ever holier than though finger and taking away rights from the gay community, the gay community would have no reason to parade around and flaunt their life style. Cause and effect, you want the gays to integrate themselves and not "show off", then it is simple, do not give them a reason to do it, treat them like and allow them the rights of every other citizen. Incase you didn't know, homosexuals have been around for a VERY long time, it isn't just some new mutation that sprang up in the last century or so. Also, gay people do not produce other gay offspring.

    LOL, yes, the Democratic Party has become "Gay Floaters" through and through; I think you have finally lost it MonsterMark.

    Then support the Dems in 2008 if you truly think it will further your own cause, jump on that float.
     
  20. fossten

    fossten Dedicated LVC Member

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    You're assuming too much. If the sheeple, as you put it, are too dumb to see the truth b/c of the MSM, what makes you think they'll suddenly see the truth after two years of the Dems in power? Look at your figures - the economy is booming. You watch: The day AFTER the election, if the Dems win, the MSM will immediately start trumpeting the optimism as good for the economy, because, hey, just look at these stellar numbers!!! And if the Fairness Doctrine gets passed, you can forget about the New Media.

    Don't think for a second that the Democrats or the media will allow one single solitary negative piece of news to get out about the Dems, nor will they miss a chance to trumpet anything positive they can remotely tie to the Dem party.

    Your own logic has a flaw - you assume that the sheeple will awaken, but you forget they will have no stimulus. The MSM and Dems will suppress anything that could hinder their chances to hold on to power. Also remember that we are only now reaping the bitter fruits of Clinton's presidency. It takes years for the full effects of a bad foreign policy to manifest itself. You won't be able to tell until 2012 what bad leaders the Dems are.

    Look at what Michael J. Fox is doing - he's exploiting his illness while cutting a campaign commercial for wacko Claire McCaskill. He's misleading people about stem cell research, and don't think that the sheeple, as you put it, will be able to tell the difference. They will be too mesmerized by the emotional updraft created by half truths and piteous video of Fox trembling because he deliberately didn't take his meds right before the commercial so he could look really sick.

    Look at the judge issue. Do you think that a liberal judge will rule in favor of the Republican candidate who is being sued for voter fraud? All the libs have to do is get a bunch of judges lined up to do their bidding, and all elections will be contested and won by the Dems who will scream voter fraud any time they lose. You really want more of that?

    My point is that if you and the cut and run conservatives stay home this time, there is a good chance that the Dems will consolidate their position of power and we'll never get it back.
     
  21. 97silverlsc

    97silverlsc Dedicated LVC Member

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    Can't say that about shrubby, he sucked from day 1 and has only gotten worse.

    I would disagree with it taking years for bad foreign policy to manifest itself, shrubs have been a disaster from the beginning and we're paying a heavy price for it now.

    I'm an independent, but that doesn't sound bad to me at all after having seen the repugs in action! :) :D :)
     
  22. fossten

    fossten Dedicated LVC Member

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    Blah blah blah...Ho hum. This from the guy who still believes Rove is going to be indicted. :rolleyes:
     
  23. MonsterMark

    MonsterMark Dedicated LVC Member

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    The single funniest thing I have ever read on the web.:Bang
     

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