'93 Mark VIII performace

[Sharpie]

Ok, my car is fully stock and i want to do somthing about it. Im 17 and i want my car to keep up with my dad (340 hp Infiniti m45) Im looking for chips now but... 1) dont know where to look or what to look for. 2) ive had friends tell me that i need air intake and exhaust before the chip. What should I do? :feedback

 

[JoshMcMadMac]

What should I do?

Stop listening to your friends and start listening to us! j/k Seriously, you are not going to gain the 55hp you want from an intake, exhaust, and chip. You will pick up noticable performance, but nothing to that extreme. And chips are historically a waste of money. You say that you want 340hp, but is that all you want? And how much cash are you willing to throw at it to make it fast? Do you want it fast all the time, or is it ok if you have to hit N2O to get the power where you want it? We can put you onto the right track for getting the speed and power you want, but we are going to ask questions to make sure you really know what you want.

Welcome aboard, and it's nice to see another young American with some appreciation for the american luxury-sport.

 

[Sifrino3]

Ok, my car is fully stock and i want to do somthing about it. Im 17 and i want my car to keep up with my dad (340 hp Infiniti m45) Im looking for chips now but... 1) dont know where to look or what to look for. 2) ive had friends tell me that i need air intake and exhaust before the chip. What should I do? :feedback

www.lincolnmotorsport.com

 

[seanklsc]

Ok, my car is fully stock and i want to do somthing about it. Im 17 and i want my car to keep up with my dad (340 hp Infiniti m45) Im looking for chips now but... 1) dont know where to look or what to look for. 2) ive had friends tell me that i need air intake and exhaust before the chip. What should I do? :feedback

Whats your budget?

 

[ModPWR]

And chips are historically a waste of money.

Do you care to share with us/me what is this based on ? I don't post very often, but since we have this 17 year old guy trying to learn something, why throw such BS at him on day one ???

 

[JoshMcMadMac]

Do you care to share with us/me what is this based on ? I don't post very often, but since we have this 17 year old guy trying to learn something, why throw such BS at him on day one ???

Are you suggesting that the fact that he is 17 is a deterent to his ability to learn about cars? Because what I am gathering is that you feel that I am giving him too much information for his "poor, adolescent" mind to handle. I certainly hope that you are not insinuating such, as this board is made up of many young men that would scoff at such a suggestion. Just because he is young does not mean that he is stupid. He can still reap the rewards of answers to his questions with out having to sound out the words in a f

-n

t

k fashion. Descrimination is not just racial, and it is people that proclaim that the young cannot understand true-blood american mechanics that create generation gaps and turn this generation into the "ricers" they loath so much.

 

[seanklsc]

Are you suggesting that the fact that he is 17 is a deterent to his ability to learn about cars? Because what I am gathering is that you feel that I am giving him too much information for his "poor, adolescent" mind to handle. I certainly hope that you are not insinuating such, as this board is made up of many young men that would scoff at such a suggestion. Just because he is young does not mean that he is stupid. He can still reap the rewards of answers to his questions with out having to sound out the words in a f

-n

t

k fashion. Descrimination is not just racial, and it is people that proclaim that the young cannot understand true-blood american mechanics that create generation gaps and turn this generation into the "ricers" they loath so much.

Please be serious. I'm still waiting for info on how chips are historically a waste of money...

 

[JoshMcMadMac]

Please be serious. I'm still waiting for info on how chips are historically a waste of money...

Well that certainly was serious.

As for the chips, I will gladly elaborate. Jet Chips and the like do very little for these heavy cars. Mustangs benefit somewhat from the chips, but still not as much as claimed. The are "historically a waste of money" as I have heard many, many times over from members of several different forums that a chip does not provide much additional power. At least not to the extent to justify the cost that could easily be put into a more substantial upgrade. That is why your typical off-the-shelf commerical chip will not provide a gain that will justify the cost. Certain chips do better than others, and additional gains are also seen with other upgrades, but I certainly would not recommend it as the initial upgrade for someone looking for an additional 55hp.

 

[ModPWR]

Well that certainly was serious.

As for the chips, I will gladly elaborate. Jet Chips and the like do very little for these heavy cars. Mustangs benefit somewhat from the chips, but still not as much as claimed. The are "historically a waste of money" as I have heard many, many times over from members of several different forums that a chip does not provide much additional power. At least not to the extent to justify the cost that could easily be put into a more substantial upgrade. That is why your typical off-the-shelf commerical chip will not provide a gain that will justify the cost. Certain chips do better than others, and additional gains are also seen with other upgrades, but I certainly would not recommend it as the initial upgrade for someone looking for an additional 55hp.

Well, I'm gonna respond once more.

First, you might reread my post 10 times and try to find again where I'm being racist. Hehe, this just made my morning. I guess you misunderstood the fact that it's your false information that I don't want the young guy to start his mark viii journey with.

Second, apparently you don't know squat about 4V and chips. Quoting that Jet chips don't do a whole lot just proves my point. I don't even know if Jets is still in business. Any modification you perform on a Mark will benefit you a lot more if it's properly noted in the ECU. Throwing parts at the car and not the computer you've done so is retarded. Even completey stock mark VIIIs benefit from a standard program, for example an SCT program. Gains of 10-15 RWHP are very common, but chips are not only that. Our automatic transmissions need their shiftings and lock-up schedules adjusted in order to provide better shifting pattern, and usually better MPG. Limiters need to be removed, or at least raised, timing needs to be adjusted. The number of parameters that you can change in today's chips is overwhelming, most people don't even realize this. As far as cost vs. result, a mere $285 for a two program chip is defnitely worth it.

 

[Katshot]

Ok, I think you guys are both in the right town but not in the ballpark yet. Let me try to explain.
Installing a "chip" or modified ECM, PCM, ECU whatever "can" make a big difference. It can also make very little difference. In some cases, I've even seen them cause a marked DECREASE in performance. The reason for this is that there are SO MANY companies out there marketing them, and ultimate performance gains of these items depends heavily on the car they are being installed on (and of course WHO does the install). And this is only pertaining to off the shelf items being installed on TOTALLY STOCK cars. "Custom" programmed items, and ANY installs onto non-stock cars are TOTALLY an individual basis kind of deal.
That said, back to the "chip" issue. I'll limit this comment to "stock" cars. Many cars can benefit from an engine management reprogram but that will depend on the "original" program. How GOOD the original was. Years ago, Hypertech had a dyno graph for their chips on GM G-body cars (mid 80's 442, Monte Carlo SS, Grand National, Grand Prix etc.). It showed a huge difference in gains between the cars. As I recall, the 442 got a HUGE gain, whereas the Grand National got very little. This is much the same as what you will see on other cars as well. On my car ('95 Fleetwood) the factory PCM flash is actually quite good and it's fairly hard to get much better performance from aftermarket items that only influence PCM programming on a "stock" drivetrain. Other cars benefit greatly because their factory programming is not as liberal or performance biased.
Bottom line: There is no correct answer that fits all cars. Some cars will benefit from relatively minor mods while others will not. The answer is to get to know your drivetrain's weak points and improve on them first. Do it smart, and you can reap great benefits for relatively small amounts of money. Do it wrecklessly, and all you'll be doing is wasting money and maybe damaging your ride.

 

[MarkOfDeath]

Didn't we have this argument before and the outcome was dont waste your money on the chip but yet spend a little more to get some real power, by getting a dyno tune. anyways I went agaist the crowd and got an H pipe for my car, yes people will say a :q:q:q:qed up but I have been in marks with x pipes and h pipe for me is way better at low end torqe.

But start off with exhaust H or X pipe and a shift kit, then save up for a drive shaft after that put some 410s in and after that get a dyno tune. then if ya still have cash 3200 stall converter. after that your dad will be on a m45 fourm asking how to beat his kids hotrod lincoln, good luck

Represent for the young guys

 

[JoshMcMadMac]

First, you might reread my post 10 times and try to find again where I'm being racist.

Racism is ethnically based. I made no reference to that. But you seem to be misconstruing the entirety of my posts, so that does not suprize me. You have made any response futile, as you do not seem to have the ability to process what is actually being stated on my end and would rather blur it into some form that you feel can give you an edge to win an arguement.

Once again, however, I will clarify. Chips are historically a waste of money, as many people have stated on many forums. I am not saying that they do not make a difference, only reflecting upon what members have expressed in the past.

Katshot, thank you for the clarification and elaboration. Hopefully that will straighten things out a bite. That is very helpful and informative.

 

[ModPWR]

You have made any response futile, as you do not seem to have the ability to process what is actually being stated on my end and would rather blur it into some form that you feel can give you an edge to win an arguement.

You were already asked once to be serious. Thanx.

Once again, however, I will clarify. Chips are historically a waste of money .... only reflecting upon what members have expressed in the past.

And that is the quintessence of your post. But things do change. Thus, what I read in your posts is that you throw misinformation into the world, not having real proof of things you state, also known as BS.

Katshot, I do agree with you that the chip debate doesn't apply to all the cars, but it's been both dyno and track proven than Lincoln Mark VIIIs benefit greatly from custom programming.After all that is the car OP was asking about. I have never stated that this should be the guy's first mod, but merely asked for more info on how the chips are waste of money. What was going on in the tuning industry back in 90's doesn't apply to what's is really happening right now. These cars, especially the EEC V cars are like toys in hands of a good tuner. Of course, of shelf programs that were so popular in the past are not suitable for every driver. But it's the ability of the software to fully customize many parameters very important for both everyday driveablity as well as increased track performance is what sets it apart from "Jets" chips or whataver other "used to be" brand you want to bring up.

Oh, and Young Blood Rulez !!!

 

[Katshot]

You were already asked once to be serious. Thanx.



And that is the quintessence of your post. But things do change. Thus, what I read in your posts is that you throw misinformation into the world, not having real proof of things you state, also known as BS.

Katshot, I do agree with you that the chip debate doesn't apply to all the cars, but it's been both dyno and track proven than Lincoln Mark VIIIs benefit greatly from custom programming.After all that is the car OP was asking about. I have never stated that this should be the guy's first mod, but merely asked for more info on how the chips are waste of money. What was going on in the tuning industry back in 90's doesn't apply to what's is really happening right now. These cars, especially the EEC V cars are like toys in hands of a good tuner. Of course, of shelf programs that were so popular in the past are not suitable for every driver. But it's the ability of the software to fully customize many parameters very important for both everyday driveablity as well as increased track performance is what sets it apart from "Jets" chips or whataver other "used to be" brand you want to bring up.

Oh, and Young Blood Rulez !!!

I would say that the original statement about chips being a waste of money was a bit of a generalization for sure. But on the other hand, your statement about what was going on the 90's doesn't apply now is also a rather broad generalization.
The facts are that engine management modifications through the use of pre-programmed "chips" or drop-in modules (ECM, ECU, etc.) is a subject that involves many variables but if you want a generalization.......
Generally speaking, messing with the ECM, ECU, etc. will NOT offer much performance improvements on a "stock" engine. The greatest potential for improvement in this field will be realized on modified engines/drivetrains.

 

[Sharpie]

Ok, so your sayin scrap the chip and go get exhaust, with some engine mods? What engine mods would help? What about a different air intake? Id really just like the basic parts to get the power. My dad is looking for stuff for his car cuz he doesnt have to pay for gas.. So i doubt i can get the power his car will have.

 

[JoshMcMadMac]

Ok, so your sayin scrap the chip and go get exhaust, with some engine mods? What engine mods would help? What about a different air intake? Id really just like the basic parts to get the power. My dad is looking for stuff for his car cuz he doesnt have to pay for gas.. So i doubt i can get the power his car will have.

Don't scrap the chip altogether. It is just not what I would recommend for the first step. A good exhaust is almost always an excellent place to start. It is relatively straight forward, and definately something that has been done a time or two, which takes a lot of the guess-work out of it.

Your quest for power is only limited by your pocket book. You could certainly boost the engine into your power range and above, but that is several thousands of dollars. We can help you better if you can get a good idea of what exactly you want to achieve, and how much you have to spend to achieve it.

 

[Katshot]

I agree, no need to scrap the chips etc., just do it in the right order. The simplest stuff to do is definately improve the engine's breathing. Just remember that an engine is really just a big air pump so if you open up the intake, you must also open up the exhaust, and vice-versa. One without the other will net minimal gains. After that, it's fuel, timing, gears, posi (to get the power to the ground), and tires (also to get the power to the ground). Matter of fact, tires are the single easiest way to improve your car's performance. Give that some thought before going nuts.

 

[Sharpie]

Alright, I got a low budget. My dad said hed get a few things, and i just get money as it comes in from doin yard work etc. So Ill probably start with an air intake and exhaust after reading the above. What should I go with when looking for exhaust, i was a low rumble and quiet at low rpm/idle, but a powerful sound when i hit the gas. Then what kind of intake?

 

[Joeychgo]

Don't scrap the chip altogether. It is just not what I would recommend for the first step. A good exhaust is almost always an excellent place to start.

I agree.............

There are some mods a chip is necessary for to get the full benefit, but its not the first place to start. Good exhaust, new air intake - there is a good start.

 

[CaptainZilog]

Rear gears and trans converter. Your car is a behemoth and so is his (around 3,800 lbs curb weight, the both of you), you've got a 4 gear OD trans and he's got 5 gears with a slightly numerically lower final drive ratio than you (3.133 to your 3.270). HOWEVER, his first gear will utterly *rape* you (3.540:1 to your paltry 2.84:1). You need to get 4.10's to see the kind of torque multiplication you need to match up (3.73's won't cut it, I just did the math).

I wish I could see the torque bands of both engines, because while his peak torque may be high, but he could have a weak band. His bore is larger, but he's got a pretty short stroke. This makes me think his torque band will be weak in the low RPMs, which is why his car has such a murderous first gear. But he's also got 6/10ths of a point of compression on you...

The thing with the 32V 4.6 is that nothing is cheap and it's pretty worked over from the factory. I think the only way you're gonna match his power output is by upping the compression ratio by milling the deck or heads, nitrous or forced induction. Things like intake, exhaust, throttle bodies, are only small increases. He has 333 lb-ft of torque, developed by 4,000rpm. It takes your engine until 4,500rpm to develop 285... 50 ft-lbs are hard to just "get" from bolt ons. If you want to WIN, you have to gear your car higher (numerically), get a higher stall converter behind that engine to launch better, put all the bolt ons you can find on there and get some good traction.

Or just buy two turbos and dyno tune them

 

[Joeychgo]

You know, it just crossed my mind......... You could always go out to your dad's car and yank one of the spark plugs.......... that'll slow him down

 

[pro-five-oh]

I have never stated that this should be the guy's first mod...

Well I will say that. You guys are getting bent outta shape for nothing. Chips are not a waste of money for any car engineered/designed after the Reagan Administration...because...

1) Any car with a distributorless ignition will see more power from a chip that couldn't be gained anywhere else.

2) Any car with an electronically controlled transmission will shift faster and react to throttle input more aggressively with a chip.

I am a little surprised that we didn't list the chain of poor-man's modifications on a Mark VIII: Remove air silencer/air resonator, drill out leading edge of airbox, put fresh plugs in, new fuel filter, chip, and exhaust. (in that order)

Tighten up, people!!! There'll be a quiz afterwards. :F :F

 

[Danny351C]

Ok, so your sayin scrap the chip and go get exhaust, with some engine mods? What engine mods would help? What about a different air intake? Id really just like the basic parts to get the power. My dad is looking for stuff for his car cuz he doesnt have to pay for gas.. So i doubt i can get the power his car will have.

Dude you want instant massive acceleration results without the BS. Put some 4:10 Track loc gears in it and you'll blow the doors off your dads. These cars are very heavy and the high revving 32v Mark can really benefit from the 410s to get it moving very very quickly off the line.
For next to nothing, I cut of the stock heavy restrictive mufflers and bolted on 2 elbows behind the rear tires 6.99 cents each at napa. (I kept the stock cat manifolds) But, It breathes SO much better, has WAY more throttle response. It has an amazing musical sounding low to high exhaust note.

Dont wast your money on these so called CAI systems that have a tube connected to a conical filter that just sits there soaking in hot engine air.

The Mark 8 has a great intake system. I would keep the factory air box and improve it. Add a low restriction air filter (K&N). Check if there is any restrictions. Clean your sensors, air box and intake tube. I would use heat insulator tape to wrap the intake tube. Tape up the in and out of the air box as well. The key thing is to route as much cool (outside) air into that box. This will lower your incoming air temp giving you more boot!
You can get creative with a hole saw and PVC tubing and route to the grill for pretty cheap.

As far as chips and dyno tunes, they cost money and can be very beneficial. I haven got there yet. But its the icing on the cake and can really help dial in the mods.

 

[BILLBOATS]

Please be serious. I'm still waiting for info on how chips are historically a waste of money...

They are a low cost way for boosting horse power but a waste of money expecting then to make 75-100 horse. That is how they can be a waste.

 

[Moes8]

wow, this thread is approaching 15 years old! the Op would be about 31 or 32 years old now.