2005 Lincoln LS 3.9L Coolant Recover Tank Boil Over

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BigBalla39213

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Hello guys. I have a 2005 Lincoln LS 3.9L
Sometimes when I shut the car off the Coolant Recover Tank Boils Over. Usually I hear the Electronic Water Pump running, but now I dont. Can someone please help.
 
The cooling system is supposed to be sealed and pressurized. This raises the boiling point of the coolant so that it stays liquid and transfers heat better. Lower pressure= lower boiling point (which is why high altitude residents use pressure cookers). When the cooling plastics start to get microcracks, they let out air but not coolant, so they are hard to detect. By letting out air, the pressure drops, and the boiling point lowers.

If by "boils over" you mean the coolant just bubbles out of the coolant tank, then there's your most obvious problem. It supposed to be sealed.
 
It can also be air and steam from the engine coming through the engine air bleed line. It would bubble out of the metal tube at the bottom of the degas bottle. The cause would be the same, micro-cracks in the plastic parts. They also let air gets sucked into the cooling system every time the engine cools down. Trapped air prevent coolant circulation, which also causes overheating.

The aux pump may or may not have failed, but it's not why the engine is overheating. It's only there for the heater to work at idle when it is cold out, and to help cool the engine post shutdown in extreme conditions. I'm pretty surprised that you could hear it running.
 
should be a sticky... or make it test question to open an account... what is the Achilles heal of the LS cooling system
 
joegr said:
It can also be air and steam from the engine coming through the engine air bleed line. It would bubble out of the metal tube at the bottom of the degas bottle. The cause would be the same, micro-cracks in the plastic parts. They also let air gets sucked into the cooling system every time the engine cools down. Trapped air prevent coolant circulation, which also causes overheating.

The aux pump may or may not have failed, but it's not why the engine is overheating. It's only there for the heater to work at idle when it is cold out, and to help cool the engine post shutdown in extreme conditions. I'm pretty surprised that you could hear it running.
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I was meaning that I could hear the water moving around throught the Heater Core.
 
BigBalla39213 said:
I was meaning that I could hear the water moving around throught the Heater Core.
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Are you quite sure that it wasn't/isn't the slight movements of the electric servos on the climate control air doors that you were hearing? It is normal for them to move for about 15 minutes after you turn the key off. It is very unlikely that you could hear any coolant circulation in the cores.
 
BigBalla39213 said:
Another thing...My coolant hoses are sweating real bad.
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Coolant hoses do not sweat. If moisture is forming on them, then they are leaking coolant. It should leave white, yellow, or green stains behind. The only way for coolant hoses to sweat is if the engine is colder than the outside air. Unless you drive the car out of a refrigerated area, that's not going to happen.

Refrigerant hoses and lines (from the AC system) will sweat. This is normal. The higher the humidity, the more they will sweat. (Moisture out of the warm air condenses on the cool lines.)

Refrigerant hoses/lines have refrigerant (R134a in our case) circulating through them.
Coolant hoses/lines have coolant (50/50 mix of water and anti-freeze) in them.
 
02LincLS said:
what is the Achilles heal of the LS cooling system
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What is the Achilles Heel of the LS cooling system? All of it. Almost every single part*. Every 100K miles.

*A better question would have been "what part of the LS cooling system generally has no problems. The answer to that is the radiator. The radiator has about the same failure rate on the LS as any other car does.
 
joegr said:
Coolant hoses do not sweat. If moisture is forming on them, then they are leaking coolant. It should leave white, yellow, or green stains behind. The only way for coolant hoses to sweat is if the engine is colder than the outside air. Unless you drive the car out of a refrigerated area, that's not going to happen.

Refrigerant hoses and lines (from the AC system) will sweat. This is normal. The higher the humidity, the more they will sweat. (Moisture out of the warm air condenses on the cool lines.)

Refrigerant hoses/lines have refrigerant (R134a in our case) circulating through them.
Coolant hoses/lines have coolant (50/50 mix of water and anti-freeze) in them.
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I'm 100% sure my Coolant Hoses are not suppose to sweat. They look like coolant is slowing coming from them and they are soft also.
 
Telco said:
What is the Achilles Heel of the LS cooling system? All of it. Almost every single part*. Every 100K miles.

*A better question would have been "what part of the LS cooling system generally has no problems. The answer to that is the radiator. The radiator has about the same failure rate on the LS as any other car does.
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They designed the degas tank to be sacrificial and blow apart and save the rest of the plastic lol. Its a complete joke. The icing on the cake is having to check fan fluid. The one thing I wanted to die over the years so I could do electric swap and that damn fan keeps going.
 
02LincLS said:
They designed the degas tank to be sacrificial and blow apart and save the rest of the plastic l...
Click to expand...

Who told you that? There's a pressure relief valve in the degas bottle cap. That's what regulates the max system pressure, and is also the safety pressure relief. It would be very difficult to design the degas bottle to fail at a specific pressure, and this is certainly not what happens with the LS.
 
I was only joking, hence the lol

The cap vents at 16psi, and you can watch the (crappy dorman) degas tank expand in size when you pressure test the system.
 
In fairness, I was testing the Dorman at the 16 psi mark. I never left the gauge on long enough to see what normal operating temp pressure was.
The Motorcraft tank must still deform since it still gets stress cracks over time, just to a lesser degree so it lasts a little longer- so Ford isn't completely off the hook. If I had an easy way to cap the in/out ports, I'd test the Motorcraft part I have sitting in the basement, just to compare how much it deforms.
 
It seems to me that the Dorman is good for about six months. The Motorcraft seems to be good for at least six years. I'd call that more than "lasts a little longer." I do agree that ideally it could and should last the life of the car or at least twenty years, but it is what it is. As it was, not enough people were willing to pay the new cost of the LS for it to make money for Ford. Imagine if the cost had been 20% higher to make the car last longer before these kinds of repairs were needed? I suspect that most of the people that bought the LS new didn't keep them for more than five years anyway.
 
Lasting 10 years would be nice but yeah, they have to save somewhere. I thought they did a good job overall with balancing that stuff out.

My first Dorman lasted longer than my original Motorcraft, but the turkey at the dealership that replaced the UCA's broke the return line barb. May have been ready to go anyway but still. This second Dorman lasted as you said... 6 months. I had to get to work so I installed another Dorman from local store in the freezing winter along with thermostat housing. It really bugs me to have it in there... I'm just waiting for it to pop but this time I'm prepared. Aux pump and DCCV also waiting to go in when it does (cycling 60F to 90F a few times does the trick for short term).
 
02LincLS said:
Lasting 10 years would be nice but yeah, they have to save somewhere. I thought they did a good job overall with balancing that stuff out.

My first Dorman lasted longer than my original Motorcraft, but the turkey at the dealership that replaced the UCA's broke the return line barb. May have been ready to go anyway but still. This second Dorman lasted as you said... 6 months. I had to get to work so I installed another Dorman from local store in the freezing winter along with thermostat housing. It really bugs me to have it in there... I'm just waiting for it to pop but this time I'm prepared. Aux pump and DCCV also waiting to go in when it does (cycling 60F to 90F a few times does the trick for short term).
Click to expand...

Is it difficult to change the degas bottle? Thermostat?
 
lsintoronto said:
Is it difficult to change the degas bottle? Thermostat?
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Degas bottle: In my opinion, no. Some have had trouble with bolts rusted stuck, but I don't have to deal with any road salts here.

Thermostat: Depends somewhat on which generation you have (gen I an gen II thermostats are very different). In either case, the main issue is that the plastic parts around the thermostat may break when you go to change it. In the case of gen II, you may have to remove the intake manifold (it's not that difficult, and if you don't, you'd have to remove the throttle body which is almost as difficult anyway).
 
It's a Gen II (2004) V8. I don't think the thermostat is bad as my symptoms are similar to others here but I was talking to an indy shop about bring the car in and I think they wanted to start with the thermostat which may not fix the issue if it's related to old, brittle plastic parts. And the Ford dealer wanted 1.5 hours for diagnostics.

Anyway, thanks - I'll stop. Don't want to hijack the OP's thread although sounds like we may be experiencing the same issue.
 
Either way, the solution is almost certainly the same...
 
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