1997 Lincoln Mark VIII Won't Start

Lincoln Mark VIII

  1. Denna

    Denna Well-Known LVC Member

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    A 1997 Lincoln Mark VIII base model will not crank after battery was removed for 8 months.

    A new Remy starter was installed and the solenoid wire was replaced.

    Jumping starter with a screwdriver will cause engine to crank and start.

    Solenoid wire is not getting power with ignition in crank position.

    With the key in ignition in On position, the fuel pump hums, but the engine does not crank.

    The anti-theft light goes out when ignition is in crank / on position.

    Solenoid wire from fuse box is not getting power.

    Any ideas ?
     
  2. tgs1964

    tgs1964 LVC Member

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    Bad ignition switch?
     
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    • Denna

      Denna Well-Known LVC Member

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      Thanks for the reply.

      If it were the ignition switch, how could the starter be jumped ?
       
    • Denna

      Denna Well-Known LVC Member

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      1) How do you test for a problem with the ignition switch ?

      2) Could the anti-theft system be affected by the car not having a connected battery for 8 months ? Both driver keys, not valet, will not crank the engine.

      3) If the fuse box is not sending power to the solenoid and all of the fuses have been verified to be good, what component would be blocking the power to pass through the fuse box ?
       
    • driller

      driller Dedicated LVC Member

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      Power from the ignition switch to the starter solenoid is routed as follows:

      • Ignition switch
      • Starter Interrupt Relay
      • Manual Lever Position Sensor
      • Starter Solenoid

      The starter interrupt relay should be protected by a fuse and is controlled via the anti-theft module.

      Of course the MLPS allows the power to the starter solenoid only with the transmission in the Park and Neutral positions.
       
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      • Denna

        Denna Well-Known LVC Member

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        Could you use a test light to check the ignition switch ?

        If you get a light by placing the key in the ignition in the ACC and ON positions, but not in the Crank position, does that mean the problem is with the anti-theft system ?
         
      • driller

        driller Dedicated LVC Member

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        Do your IP warning lamps and message center light up when you turn the key to on?

        What wire are you referring to? You only have power on the solenoid wire when the key is turned to the crank position.
         
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        • Denna

          Denna Well-Known LVC Member

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          The IP and message center light up when the ignition is in the ON position.

          Using a test light, the solenoid is not receiving power when the ignition is in the CRANK position.
           
        • driller

          driller Dedicated LVC Member

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          Then the ignition switch is getting power.

          You need to start tracking for power either at the ignition switch to the starter interrupt relay or the solenoid back to the MLPS. I would have to check the manual, but I'm pretty sure the wire color code is the same throughout.
           
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          • Denna

            Denna Well-Known LVC Member

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            When the ignition is in the Crank position, power is getting to the fuse box #6 fuse and the starter relay.

            What is the color of the wire from the starter relay to the MLPS ?
             
          • ford nut

            ford nut Local nut case

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            Here....

            DSC_0328_zpsvgtfl6jh.jpg

            DSC_0329_zpsuf0z3fo6.jpg

            DSC_0330_zpszwt0cyyx.jpg

            DSC_0331_zpsor3rhfr2.jpg
             
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            • Denna

              Denna Well-Known LVC Member

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              1) When a speaker wire is wrapped around PIN 85 on the starter relay, the test light's ground is clamped on the battery's negative terminal and the test light probe touches the other end of the speaker wire, the engine will crank when the ignition is in the Crank position.

              2) Where is the SCIL module ?

              3) How do you test the SCIL module ?
               
            • ford nut

              ford nut Local nut case

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            • Denna

              Denna Well-Known LVC Member

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              Upon opening the glove box, there was moisture on the SCIL and other parts in there - enough to thoroughly wet your hand.
               
            • ford nut

              ford nut Local nut case

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              That does not sound good, maybe let it sit in some white rice to try and dry the the scil.... I have heard cell phone stories of it working:p
               
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              • Denna

                Denna Well-Known LVC Member

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                The SCIL module was removed, but there doesn't appear to be any visual damage. Using a test probe on the SCIL connectors will activate various electrical parts (i.e. trunk release, message console on/off, steering wheel telescope/tilt, etc.).

                The above diagram shows a white/pink wire going from the DTR Sensor to the SCIL, but none of the wires look white and pink.

                Where is the DTR Sensor ?

                What do you recommend testing at this point ?

                Could the SCIL module have lost the codes for the keys ?
                 
              • Bangster

                Bangster Dedicated LVC Member

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                This is what happens when it doesn't think your key is allowed, or it can't see the key. I covered mine in foil to get it to fail (I use this trick for programming in keys cut for other vehicles or uncut keys, as well as programming in the pills for remote starts).

                [video=youtube_share;yt81d3RDieI]http://youtu.be/yt81d3RDieI[/video]

                normal sequence:
                [video=youtube_share;rYTqHe3eO3M]http://youtu.be/rYTqHe3eO3M[/video]
                 
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                • Lownslowlsc

                  Lownslowlsc Dedicated LVC Member

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                  If it's wet in that area I'd check your air duct underneath the passenger side cowl panel. It can leak around the seam and also cause your blower motor to spaz out. While under there be sure to check if the foam strip are still in place on the cowl panel itself. Fairly common problem.
                   
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                  • Bangster

                    Bangster Dedicated LVC Member

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                    DTR is on the transmission.

                    pin 4 of connector 287 is the one that goes to the starter relay (provides a ground):
                    16521449132_e1cfd4b084_o.png

                    This shows it going to the DTR:
                    16336603807_ca92614d4a_o.png

                    This is where it goes to the DTR:
                    16334819758_f59d32baff_o.png

                    This shows that it goes from ignition switch to starter relay (12v) and how ground goes from SCIL to DTR, and if in park or neutral, to the starter relay.
                    16520814241_28f70fd102_o.png

                    Pinouts for the rest of the SCIL connectors just for fun:

                    286:
                    16334778078_785534b0e0_o.png

                    288:
                    16335017550_1e019dd958_o.png

                    289:
                    16335017520_cc6f73a137_o.png
                     
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                    • driller

                      driller Dedicated LVC Member

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                      OMG, I should've braved the cold and went out to the garage and looked at the Gen2 manual... I totally forgot about the SCIL. :eek:

                      I wonder if this means it's a PATs issue or an SCIL issue?
                       
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                      • chris2523

                        chris2523 93 Mark VIII

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                        i thought PATS was in the SCIL?
                         
                      • Bangster

                        Bangster Dedicated LVC Member

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                        Yes, PATS is in the SCIL.

                        Since they already confirmed that the starter relay is getting 12v (I GUESS on pin 85, the red and orange wire), Checking for ground on pin 86 red/light blue wire. If no ground when trying to start, I would try in neutral and wiggle the shifter around to be sure it isn't the DTR. If there is a ground on pin 86, 12v in pin 85, then the output to the 87 yellow/light blue wire should have 12v when trying to start. It goes from there to a connector and directly to the starter. Did these starters have the ring end and threaded post/nut or the spade tip? Those are notorious failure points on the Crown Vics.
                         
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                        • ford nut

                          ford nut Local nut case

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                          Thinking along the same lines....check its in park wiggle shifter to make sure. try to eliminate the DTR.
                          If it still wont start I'm thinking the SCIL is shot from getting soaked.
                           
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                          • driller

                            driller Dedicated LVC Member

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                            Going back to the OP... with the battery removed for 8 months I would suspect either the wet SCIL or a bad connection on the DTR (from corrosion).

                            I guess at this point, I would try to establish a ground path for the starter relay on both sides of the DTR.

                            If grounding between the relay and the DTR works (circuit 32 - R/LB), it could be the DTR or SCIL.

                            If grounding between the SCIL and DTR works (circuit 33 - W/PK), the SCIL would have to be bad.
                             
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                            • Denna

                              Denna Well-Known LVC Member

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                              Since grounding pin 85 on the fuse box would allow the car to crank, could the moisture have caused the problem by causing corrosion on the ground coming off the SCIL ?

                              Where is the ground located on the frame ?
                               

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