Wrong brand plugs kill coils???

J

Jim Henderson

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My car has been in the shop almost 3 weeks now. It is a 2004 LSV8 I bought used at about 14,000 miles. It now has about 45000 miles on it.

It had some work done on it last summer when it came up with the classic coil stumble. The dealer replaced a few coils and it seemed OK. But over the months it had a very subtle stumble at light engine loads.

I took it in this month to take care of several problems with the car including the slight stumble.

The dealer wasn't getting any codes on the coils but did detect that a few were failing and replaced them. It seemed like the problem moved around from coil to coil.

Finally with regional sevice reps working on it they determined that the NGK spark plugs in the car were causing the coils to fail. The factory is denying warranty coverage on this problem due to non factory plugs.

So, some questions...

#1, who in the heck would change plugs on a car with less than half the miles the OEMs are rated for? If the plugs were replaced, it had to be before I bought it at 14,000 miles so even crazier that the plugs were replaced. More importantly why?

#2, how in the heck does a plug that is supposed to be a factory replacement cause coils to fail? Seems like the coils are awful finicky if this is truly the cause.

#3 Are factory plugs a requirement for warranty coverage? Or does NGK have a warranty if their plug damages your engine?


So, Has any one had this experience with these cars? Is it possible these cars can come from the factory with NGK?

What is the deal we can get for replacement coils?

And a warning, it appears Ford may disallow warranty coverage if you do not have factory plugs. This is a real surprise and PITA.


I am liking the LS a lot less every time I have to take it in. So far it has required the most days in the shop and the most early problems of any car I have owned in over 30 years. I am not realy happy about the reliability and if I get stuck with the repair bill I will become one of those whiners who spreads the word.

Any ideas or advie on what to do about the problem?

Wish I still had my chebby,

Jim Henderson
 
Wow that is surprising. I thought NGK was the factory plug on the LS???

If not, perhaps your DEALER put the NGK's in when they replaced the coils last time?
 
Lastly, I believe the dealer must PROVE that the aftermarket part caused the coils to fail in order to deny your coverage. I would challenge them to prove it....
 
Got a call back by the dealer. The service manager did some more research and found out that Ford did subcontract out a few plugs and they were NGKs. He was not certain that they were widespread or just a few engines. Said not commonly known, sure.

Anyway I trust the dealer since he has been trying to debug this problem for almost 3 weeks now and only got stuck when the factory rep threw out the issue about NGK plugs. Well now that he knows about the use of NGKs in LS V8,s he said the factory is going to honor the warranty. I think the factory was trying to dodge an expensive warranty claim for in my mind a stupid problem.

Don't know if my mention that I am part of this group and that I would do some research had anything to do with the change but now it looks like NGK is factory approved and my problems are covered by warranty.

Still makes me wonder why so many of our coils and mine in particular are failing at such a high rate. Sounds like a design flaw to me. I used to be a sales manager in high tech and what the factory rep did was set the wrong expectation, ie NGK plugs cause coil failure, when this backfired, it told me why did Ford choose a plug that causes failure as an OEM part? And or, he was blowing smoke.

Also from my experience with getting stuck in traffic on a hot day with the engine idling with ac on for a long time, I would say our coils can't stand the heat. That is when my stumbles started.

Well as grumpy as I am about the car, I can't complain about the dealer. So far on my 4 warranty visits to the dealer, they have taken care of everything at no charge to me. They are Super Lincoln in Covina Ca.

Just my experience so far,

Jim Henderson
 
Good info to know. I'm on my original coils in my 02 as far as I know with 64k, bought the car with 32k. Just waiting for the failure. I do have a cold rough idle after starting, cars shakes a little, but it smooths when you touch the gas or rev and completely goes away when the car warms up.

Dealers seem to aways try to throw the blame, glad they were wrong and hope it works out for you. I can't see how a plug would kill the coil, you would think the opposite.
 
Three weeks seems like an incredibly long time for them to have your car. I, personally, would not be too happy with that. Good luck to you, keep us posted as to what transpires.

John
 
there is nooooooo way a brand of plug can cause a coil failure....

remember that most brands (if not all) meet or exceed OE specs....

sounds like a dealer trying to find a reason it's not warranty work.
 
Actually it sounded like the factory rep trying to find a reason not to do warranty coverage.

The car has been in for almost 3 weeks to cover a list of problems before my warranty runs out.

Items being worked on...

Mis firiing coils, Bad wheel bearing(this is way too soon), Chrome wrinkling on the grill(shoddy materials if you ask me), Sun roof rattles, Check Autotrac light keeps coming on from time to time, usually hot weather or rain.

The missing coils has taken so long because even though they replaced 7 coils so far, they still keep picking up a miss. However the computer does not appear to capture the miss. The miss is fairly subtle and only was noticable under light engine load like going 40-55mph on a flat road steady state. If you accelerated, the miss either went away or got buried in the noise. Bad enough a few times my wife noticed it.

The dealer said it seemed like the problem kept moving around from plug to plug and would move somewhere else when a coil was replaced. They were suspecting a wire shorting somewhere in the engine controls. They finally got the factory reps involved who asked to see the plugs and who immediately said NGK plugs are not factory so no warranty. Wrong. The dealer has it back on warranty coverage since indeed NGKs are a factory plug. Make sme wonder about factory reps.

Even with 7 coils replaced as of yesterday they were still getting the miss. Not sure what they are going to do next other than replace all 8 coils and maybe the plugs.

I find it hard to believe a plug would kill a coil, but I have seen a brand or two that did not give me service so there was some plausability to thinking the NGKs were the problem. But now that we know NGK is OEM and should not be the problem, I have to wonder about the basic design of the ignition system.

I have had the car in for over a week for the tranny fix. Another week last summer for mis firing coils(3 replaced), big stumble and no power, broken seat back, bad gas guage sender. And return trip a week later to replace the gasket destroyed while fixing the sender.

Hasn't cost me a penny so far, but an awful lot of problems for a car with less than 50K miles.

Jim Henderson
 
I have a question for you guys. A member here has some coils up on eBay from his V8. I don't know if mine need replacing, but I want to get them anyways just in anticipation from the problems I've heard with the coils. Are the coils interchangeable for both the V6 and V8?

Thanks in advance
 
thought i'd throw my 2 cents in... my car is an 03 ls v8. i have 80k and changed my factory plugs. one side of the plug says ngk, the other says motorcraft. i thought you'd like to know there are others like yours. i bought my coils from direct ford parts .com $38 something a pc plus @20 for shipping. way cheaper than local dealers or parts counters.
 
damn Jim - that sucks to be caught in this type of troubleshooting - even if it doesn't cost you money, you are not driving an LS....

What is soooo funny - that a miss fire is commonly reported on an incorrect cylinder - it's just a fact of an engine spinning at 6000 rpm. replace 7 - why not all 8.... for the love.......
 
It may be luck of the draw. My 02LS8 has all origonal coild at 45K, but the wife's Vic had a bad coil a couple years ago. Similar driving conditions. Bad coil design if you ask me.
 
Ever since picking my car up from the dealer from having warranty work, it has had an intermittent miss. It will go days without a hiccup then start missing. It usually occurs after I have driven a few miles, parked it for an hour or so and then start driving it again. My last experience with the problem, I had been to lunch. When I left the resturant I went 1 block and got caught by a red light. While sitting at the light it would miss every 2-3 seconds. It was real embarrassing since I had a co-worker in the car. He said he expected more from a Lincoln with only 44K on it. I tend to agree. I will never own another LS. The build quality on mine is vary sub par and not what I expect from a "luxury" car. My 2000 Deville with 95K miles on it was a far superior quality vehicle. I often wish I still had my 2004 Crown Vic LX I traded in on it. It was resold locally and the new owner keeps it clean and shiny, at least he apreciates all the custom work I did on it. :)
 
Smokey said:
Ever since picking my car up from the dealer from having warranty work, it has had an intermittent miss. It will go days without a hiccup then start missing. It usually occurs after I have driven a few miles, parked it for an hour or so and then start driving it again. My last experience with the problem, I had been to lunch. When I left the resturant I went 1 block and got caught by a red light. While sitting at the light it would miss every 2-3 seconds. It was real embarrassing since I had a co-worker in the car. He said he expected more from a Lincoln with only 44K on it. I tend to agree. I will never own another LS. The build quality on mine is vary sub par and not what I expect from a "luxury" car. My 2000 Deville with 95K miles on it was a far superior quality vehicle. I often wish I still had my 2004 Crown Vic LX I traded in on it. It was resold locally and the new owner keeps it clean and shiny, at least he apreciates all the custom work I did on it. :)
Click to expand...
Ask Torrie for new tunes to match the new flash. As long as you returned the car to stock before the flash, the most you might have to do is unlock the tuner module. If you did not, then you will have to ask SCT to reset the module (For a fee).
 
Yes, I did unlock the tuner and then downloaded the new tune the dealer put in. Thank goodness or I would have had a dead LS. The problem is I was running a custon tune I built using Torrie's as a baseline. I have the PRP so I an trying to justify spending more money just to get back to the point I was or just forget about all this tuning stuff and sell the LS. Yeah, I think the latter is the best option. Now to save up some cash to offeset the hickey I am going to take on the typical price nosedive of these cars.
 
I absolutely hate my ls after having the coils replaced so many times at the dealer, now my warranty is up I have to replace them myself.
 
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