Underdrive Crank Pulley?

Venture_motorsports_LS

Venture_motorsports_LS

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Dont know if the PCM will put its foot down on this mod too but... Just wanted get an idea if there would be an interest among LS owners for an Underdrive Crank Pulley. Should free up some HP id assume?!?!?!? Assemble a buy in or something. Relatively easy design to replicate into an underdrive of about 18-20%. Email if interested
Anyone found a cheaper intake than LLSOC 400+ rip off?? Maybe ill have to fabricate one of those too. like my catback exhaust
Justin
Venture Motorsports
Exclusive LS Performance
 
Why do you believe this would add HP?


BTW - the LLSOC is only a ripoff if you can do better for less... otherwise it's just wasted internet space.


Venture_motorsports_LS said:
Dont know if the PCM will put its foot down on this mod too but... Just wanted get an idea if there would be an interest among LS owners for an Underdrive Crank Pulley. Should free up some HP id assume?!?!?!? Assemble a buy in or something. Relatively easy design to replicate into an underdrive of about 18-20%. Email if interested
Anyone found a cheaper intake than LLSOC 400+ rip off?? Maybe ill have to fabricate one of those too. like my catback exhaust
Justin
Venture Motorsports
Exclusive LS Performance
Click to expand...
 
Quik LS said:
Why do you believe this would add HP?


BTW - the LLSOC is only a ripoff if you can do better for less... otherwise it's just wasted internet space.
Click to expand...

I'd imagine it's like every other engine...if you reduce the drag on the front of the engine...you increase the efficiency...thereby increasing the output. I don't see how an underdrive pulley WOULDN'T increase output. LS1s traditionally see gains from 10-12 horsepower by adding an underdrive pulley. The only thing to remember...because all of the V8s are autos...charging could be an issue for anyone that has any additional electronics.

As for the intake...I'm STILL trying to find someone to make me one but...I haven't given up. In the meantime, I'm going to get a MAF adapter and put a K&N on the end of the factory setup. I don't know how much of a difference the LLSOC intake would make over the factory piece with a K&N cone on it. The only thing I'll need to fab up will be some sort of a heat shield to install before the K&N. Should be easy enough to do with a small SS sheet.

-Pete
02LSE
 
Venture_motorsports_LS said:
Anyone found a cheaper intake than LLSOC 400+ rip off?? Maybe ill have to fabricate one of those too. like my catback exhaust
Justin
Venture Motorsports
Exclusive LS Performance
Click to expand...

If you can make one cheaper then have at it. Most folks don't want to mess with making one. I'm the one that is part of making that "$400+ rip off" you mention and it's far from a rip off.
 
I wouldn't pay $400+ for the minimal hp gained by adding a cai...but I come from the world of mustangs where parts are cheap lol

An underdrive pulley would be a nice, easy addon and good bang for the buck if its $50 or less

The 3.9 doesn't have the pulley built into the balancer? Most newer fords (mod motors for example) are like this
 
GrayGhost1 said:
If you can make one cheaper then have at it. Most folks don't want to mess with making one. I'm the one that is part of making that "$400+ rip off" you mention and it's far from a rip off.
Click to expand...
LLSOC- Ill be more selective on my words from now on.....Id just like to know how much it REALLY costs them to make. Im all about hooking up my fellow LS owners. Thats why i created Venture Motorsports. Cuz too few products are available, or they cost 400 dollars ! ! I have my owndesign being fabricated as we speak. i just want our LS's to get more respect on the street, without working 2 jobs to gain it.
 
Quik LS said:
Why do you believe this would add HP?


BTW - the LLSOC is only a ripoff if you can do better for less... otherwise it's just wasted internet space.
Click to expand...

less rotating mass = less strain on the motor.
Underdrive pulleys reduce the speed of accessories relative to the crankshaft speed. The claim is that this can significantly reduce parasitic drag on the engine, increase horsepower, torque and gas mileage, and by turning the accessories slower, extend their life.
 
Sifrino3 said:
I wouldn't buy a $400 CAI.

$400
10hp
= 40 $$ per HP. If it makes that. . .
Click to expand...

It's actually 15 hp for the CAI. And again, I'll say this once more. If you can make the thing cheaper or find it cheaper then do it.
 
Venture_motorsports_LS said:
less rotating mass = less strain on the motor.
Underdrive pulleys reduce the speed of accessories relative to the crankshaft speed. The claim is that this can significantly reduce parasitic drag on the engine, increase horsepower, torque and gas mileage, and by turning the accessories slower, extend their life.
Click to expand...


Less totating mass? The point of an under-drive pulley, is to increase mechanical advantage for the engine over the accesories. This is done via a smaller diameter crank pulley, and/or larger pulleys on the accesories. The difference in mass of the pulley would be so small, it would make no decernable difference in power, I'm sure.
And as far as the accesories' slower rotational speed adding service life, I would think that that would be much LESS of a concern than the proportional reduction in output from them. THAT should be a great concern considering that Lincolns tend to be heavily fortified with electronic goodies, and they will now be starved for power.
 
starved for power off idle only...an underdrive crank pulley wont affect the alternators output over say 1500rpm since its regulated over that given point anyway
 
Venture_motorsports_LS said:
LLSOC- Ill be more selective on my words from now on.....Id just like to know how much it REALLY costs them to make. Im all about hooking up my fellow LS owners. Thats why i created Venture Motorsports. Cuz too few products are available, or they cost 400 dollars ! ! I have my owndesign being fabricated as we speak. i just want our LS's to get more respect on the street, without working 2 jobs to gain it.
Click to expand...


I've been to the Magnaflow "factory". Trust me, it doesn't cost them anywhere near the $600+ they charge for their LS system. Something costs whatever a purchaser will pay. My house isn't anywhere near "worth" the ~$625K I could sell it for. It's called supply and demand. As in anything, if you can find the same quality product for less, just do it.
 
Sifrino3 said:
Wheres the dyno sheet. . .
Click to expand...

Attached are two dynos performed on the same day. We dyno'd a stock 2003 Lincoln LS that had no cat-back exhaust or CAI. The stock numbers from Lincoln for the 2003 LS is 280 HP with 286 ft-lbs of torque at the flywheel. With that being said the 2003 LS pulled at the wheels 217 HP and my modified 2001 LS pulled 218 HP. According to the 2000-2002 Lincoln LS specs the stock HP is 252 and the torque is 261. So, while you're looking at the charts my LS outperformed the 2003 stock LS. Calculating back the HP gain my LS gained roughly 30+HP. Now Magnaflow boasts that their exhaust systems gain roughly 12-14 HP (you can verify that on Magnaflows website at www.magnaflow.com). So, the CAI will yield at least a 15HP increase. Any other questions?

Dyno_-_Amy_Adams.jpg


Dyno_-_Ken_Garrison_Part_2.jpg
 
Sifrino3 said:
That don't tell me shizzy! I want stock LS performing with just a CAI. . .
Click to expand...

Dude, that actually tells you more than you need to know but any case here's the a dyno of a stock LS with only the CAI.

Dyno_-_Wayne_Fox.jpg
 
Thats with CAI and xhaust. How much does each pull? You can't tell me because it can not go/cut it down the middle. 15 for each, when maybe the xhaust pulled 20 hps and the intake pulled 10. . . You don't know, thank though. . .
 
Sifrino3 said:
Thats with CAI and xhaust. How much does each pull? You can't tell me because it can not go/cut it down the middle. 15 for each, when maybe the xhaust pulled 20 hps and the intake pulled 10. . . You don't know, thank though. . .
Click to expand...

He's absolutely correct. AND there's another wrinkle in your dyno theory. You're using two different cars for you comparison! If you think that's ok, you know little about collecting data of this kind.
 
Katshot said:
He's absolutely correct. AND there's another wrinkle in your dyno theory. You're using two different cars for you comparison! If you think that's ok, you know little about collecting data of this kind.
Click to expand...

I disagree with your last statement. The numbers don't lie. It is what it is. Of course if you want to send me $70 for another dyno pull with my car with the stock intake on I will be more than happy to go back and dyno my car again.
 
Sifrino3 said:
Thats with CAI and xhaust. How much does each pull? You can't tell me because it can not go/cut it down the middle. 15 for each, when maybe the xhaust pulled 20 hps and the intake pulled 10. . . You don't know, thank though. . .
Click to expand...

Sif,

Read the bold print that is printed smack dab in the middle of the last dyno sheet. It says stock exhaust. I guess I don't understand your thought proocess here. :Bang
 
GrayGhost1 said:
I disagree with your last statement. The numbers don't lie. It is what it is. Of course if you want to send me $70 for another dyno pull with my car with the stock intake on I will be more than happy to go back and dyno my car again.
Click to expand...

Do you have any concept of "comparitive data"? You could take two virtually identical cars and get widely varying dyno data. The very idea of using data from two totally different cars for the purpose of comparing net gains/losses from modifications done is ridiculous. And as was pointed out, doing a pull after more than one mod was done and thinking you can determine in any way what the gain/loss was from either mod is also ridiculous. All you did was waste your time and money on the dyno if you were intent on getting data from each mod. You got a "net" result which means very little with respect to the individual mod.
 
Katshot said:
Do you have any concept of "comparitive data"? You could take two virtually identical cars and get widely varying dyno data. The very idea of using data from two totally different cars for the purpose of comparing net gains/losses from modifications done is ridiculous. And as was pointed out, doing a pull after more than one mod was done and thinking you can determine in any way what the gain/loss was from either mod is also ridiculous. All you did was waste your time and money on the dyno if you were intent on getting data from each mod. You got a "net" result which means very little with respect to the individual mod.
Click to expand...

In any case the net increase with a CAI and Cat-Back exhaust is 30+ HP. Any other comments based on that are as you say....'ridiculous'.
 
GrayGhost1 said:
In any case the net increase with a CAI and Cat-Back exhaust is 30+ HP. Any other comments based on that are as you say....'ridiculous'.
Click to expand...

And just HOW do you come to that conclusion? Without knowing what your specific car's output was PRIOR to doing the mods, your dyno data means nothing beyond it showing what the car's output was on that particular day with the stated mods. There are FAR too many variables that your "experiment" does not take into consideration, to be able to draw any other conclusions.
 
Understand where you're coming from. However, are you a dyno specialist? Just wondering because it seems you have ALL the answers.
 
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