Sudden loss of all gears, no fluid leaks...

Jandamarra

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Hi guys, new here, from Australia. I have an 01 LS V8, and the tranny had been working fine no slipping. I had been driving a bit this arvo around town and also to note it's been raining on and off all day, so lots of water about. I pulled into a supermarket and parked the car, nothing unusual so far, but an hour or so later I got back in and started her up to my surprise I was not going anywhere.....

I have ruled out the linkages since if there was issues there I may loose drive but would still have reverse or vice versa, also it will roll in gear or neutral but when put in park the pawl brake will apply correctly and prevent rolling. So appears that's not the issue.

I have the trans with d5,d4 and the sst sport shift manual mode. My hours of research keep finding people with PCM issues, BUT they seen to be able to drive in manual mode, but no engagement in auto, so electrical... They even say if you rev it up in d5 then go to manual mode it won't work, you have to move past d5 without revving and then accelerate in manual mode. But I can't get any drive at all, no matter how I do it, even turned idle down as far as possible but still won't go in manual mode.

Now, the car IS overdue for a fluid and filter change, BUT it had drive when I parked, iIcould have kept driving hypothetically, it didn't break down whilst driving, I parked it and now it won't drive. what mechanical thing could fail between then and now? As it was switched off? Did something break as I was driving that allowed it to maintain fluid pressure until switch off but now it cannot build pressure enough to drive? Could there be something blocking or clogging my filter? No fluid has leaked out... Could it be something else electrical? Due to the rain?
So? Yeah any ideas? Hit me with em, thanks fellas.
 
Hi guys, new here, from Australia. I have an 01 LS V8, and the tranny had been working fine no slipping. I had been driving a bit this arvo around town and also to note it's been raining on and off all day, so lots of water about. I pulled into a supermarket and parked the car, nothing unusual so far, but an hour or so later I got back in and started her up to my surprise I was not going anywhere.....

I have ruled out the linkages since if there was issues there I may loose drive but would still have reverse or vice versa, also it will roll in gear or neutral but when put in park the pawl brake will apply correctly and prevent rolling. So appears that's not the issue.

I have the trans with d5,d4 and the sst sport shift manual mode. My hours of research keep finding people with PCM issues, BUT they seen to be able to drive in manual mode, but no engagement in auto, so electrical... They even say if you rev it up in d5 then go to manual mode it won't work, you have to move past d5 without revving and then accelerate in manual mode. But I can't get any drive at all, no matter how I do it, even turned idle down as far as possible but still won't go in manual mode.

Now, the car IS overdue for a fluid and filter change, BUT it had drive when I parked, iIcould have kept driving hypothetically, it didn't break down whilst driving, I parked it and now it won't drive. what mechanical thing could fail between then and now? As it was switched off? Did something break as I was driving that allowed it to maintain fluid pressure until switch off but now it cannot build pressure enough to drive? Could there be something blocking or clogging my filter? No fluid has leaked out... Could it be something else electrical? Due to the rain?
So? Yeah any ideas? Hit me with em, thanks fellas.
So when you have the car in gear and in Park it still rolls like it's in Neutral?
 
Sorry if I wasn't clearer. It will roll in neutral or reverse or d5, d4, but in park it won't. All automatic transmissions apply what's called a "pawl brake" when you select park.

I only made note of this to confirm the linkages are moving the rooster inside the trans correcly, as to rule that out as the problem.

Next point of action is to find a t50 torx bit and top up the fluid, or drop the pan and inspect the filter.

My head doesn't even fit under this car... Fucking pinch point and a half that is. No tools, long walk to hardware store etc.
 
Sorry if I wasn't clearer. It will roll in neutral or reverse or d5, d4, but in park it won't. All automatic transmissions apply what's called a "pawl brake" when you select park.

I only made note of this to confirm the linkages are moving the rooster inside the trans correcly, as to rule that out as the problem.

Next point of action is to find a t50 torx bit and top up the fluid, or drop the pan and inspect the filter.

My head doesn't even fit under this car... Fucking pinch point and a half that is. No tools, long walk to hardware store etc.
I suggest you Let car idle for about 10 minutes, depending on your ambient temperature
Need transmission fluid temp to be between 80°F - 120°F
Loosen - center Fluid Level Plug from the Drain Plug on the Transmission Pan - T-30 Torx Bit and LOOK AT THE FLUID BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING!!!! If the fluid is DARK BROWN OR BURNT BLACK consider your transmission in need of some serious service and no a transmission fluid exchange won't help you...you either have something wrong electrically, mechanically, or your PCM isn't functioning properly...Do you have any codes that your PCM is reading?
 
SOLVED.

Despite the lack of fluid leakage, low fluid is definately my issue, as it was gradually behaving less normal last few days until this.

I had been hesitant to rev it up too hard in gear as to avoid causing damage, but after sitting there 6 hours my last cry was to do an old fashioned neutral drop, revved her up to 4 or 5 thou in neuters and dropped it to drive, and boom off she went into gear, I could then stop at the lights or get back on road and despite the low fluid it still shifted through all the gears. Now I'm home I can get it sorted in the morning cheers.
 
SOLVED.

Despite the lack of fluid leakage, low fluid is definately my issue, as it was gradually behaving less normal last few days until this.

I had been hesitant to rev it up too hard in gear as to avoid causing damage, but after sitting there 6 hours my last cry was to do an old fashioned neutral drop, revved her up to 4 or 5 thou in neuters and dropped it to drive, and boom off she went into gear, I could then stop at the lights or get back on road and despite the low fluid it still shifted through all the gears. Now I'm home I can get it sorted in the morning cheers.
Keep us posted if the transmission shifts flawlessly after you fill it to proper level...Good to hear you got it back home at least
 
Keep us posted if the transmission shifts flawlessly after you fill it to proper level...Good to hear you got it back home at least
I will do... I presume it will engage and shift fine, but I am also expecting some wear on the clutches obviously due to the circumstances.

I could have told you hours ago if they still made tranny's with dipsticks but then ofcourse this post would have never existed. Lols.
 
You have a leak. You need to find and fix it. Transmission fluid is not consumed.
 
You have a leak. You need to find and fix it. Transmission fluid is not consumed.
He might should take a good look around the pan gasket. The age of the car being a 2001 it might be time to change that gasket. I know they are reusable but given it's age I would think the gasket is more suspect as it was on my 2001 LS. I know it happened earlier this year and the old gasket was breaking down a good bit. That is why I suggest it.
 
It doesn't have to be low fluid.

No milage was given... but if alot, (or even due to age), The DTR could be quirky.

Google search, (saved me from typing):

Symptoms of a Bad or Failing Transmission Position Sensor (Switch...
  • Car does not start or cannot move. Without a proper Park/Neutral position input from the transmission range sensor, the PCM will not be able to crank the engine over for starting. ...
  • Transmission goes into different gear than selected. ...
  • Vehicle goes into limp mode.
 
This is certainly not true.



That is due every 150K miles.

Im not certain of the linkage design, but if it's a cable it can stretch, one end of the throw is drive and the other end is park with a stretched cable you would loose park or drive depending on the adjustment. But yes your right shouldn't be loss of reverse.

The car has 135,000klms on it which is roughly 85,000miles.

The trans was regularly serviced every 10,000ks (6,000miles) until 100,000ks and maybe since but no proof so worst case is it's gone 20-30,000ks without a fluid and filter change. After yesterday I topped it up with a litre and a half and now it's engaging all gears and shifting through as expected.
 
Im not certain of the linkage design, but if it's a cable it can stretch, one end of the throw is drive and the other end is park with a stretched cable you would loose park or drive depending on the adjustment. But yes your right shouldn't be loss of reverse.

The car has 135,000klms on it which is roughly 85,000miles.

The trans was regularly serviced every 10,000ks (6,000miles) until 100,000ks and maybe since but no proof so worst case is it's gone 20-30,000ks without a fluid and filter change. After yesterday I topped it up with a litre and a half and now it's engaging all gears and shifting through as expected.
If you can't find the leak I would suggest to find a good local transmission shop so they can find the cause of the leak. You don't want to be driving down the road and be low on fluid again so I would highly advise if you can't find any signs of a leak to take it to a good transmission shop and they will find the leak.
 
Also since it got low I wouldn't think it would be a bad thing to drop the pan and check out the condition the fluid that is there. Them bands on the Gen 1 transmissions are bad about breaking and being low on fluid can't be a good thing on them bands. IMHO You need to baby them transmissions and spoil them with kindness if they still have the original bands.
 
...The trans was regularly serviced every 10,000ks (6,000miles) until 100,000ks and maybe since but no proof so worst case is it's gone 20-30,000ks without a fluid and filter change. After yesterday I topped it up with a litre and a half and now it's engaging all gears and shifting through as expected.

I can't imagine that there was any transmission service every 6K miles. An engine oil change every 6K miles would be correct.
The service schedule calls for a full transmission fluid change every 240,000 km. Otherwise, there is no called for transmission service. At 85K miles, it shouldn't (and probably hasn't) have ever had any transmission fluid change. Normally, it wouldn't need it for some time yet. However, since you have had a problem, the fluid should all be changed after finding and repairing the leak. It should also be checked for damage.

And, for the record, the linkage can fail in ways other than you seem to be thinking of. You are also not allowing for the DTR operation in your diagnosis. Of course, in the end it was the pretty much the only thing that fit those symptoms, low fluid. I don't know why so many people start out with the claim that there is no leak (transmission, coolant, whatever) when the symptoms make it clear that there is. Put it up on the rack, and you'll probably see transmission fluid all over the place under there.
 
It has 3 service stickers from auto transmission shops(not mechanics) in the driver's door jam at 80,000 90,000 and 100,000 ....presumedly by the first Australian owner as it was imported from japan in 2009 and would have had some Kay's on it already. It was babied until 2016 and then neglected until I got it.

240,000 ks in the manual seems rediculous and just goes with the claim of a "sealed for life" tranny. Load of bs if you believe it. With any car you would be naive not to do it at leased every couple of years, probably at every second or third engine oil change. If not at the same time, both are degradable oils and they are working under very similar conditions of heat and friction. what would make you think ATF can outlast engine oil 20 fold??? We would put it in our engines and seal them for life if it was the case...

Regarding the DTR, it was correctly displaying the selected gear and not showing E code, so yeah.

I know ATF doesn't just up and vanish or get consumed, but the lack of a leak is reality, the parking spot I broke down in for 6 hours didn't have a mark on it.

It could be possible that when the fluid was changed last time they may have done the old replace exactly the same amount drained, rather that check the level, underfilled and it could have been just above that tipping point at which it engages. The filter could have clogged enough to prevent correct suction and build up of pressure. Long shot but possible.. car behaved the same in the morning, had to neutral drop to get it where I needed, until I topped it up.
 
It has 3 service stickers from auto transmission shops(not mechanics) in the driver's door jam at 80,000 90,000 and 100,000 ....presumedly by the first Australian owner as it was imported from japan in 2009 and would have had some Kay's on it already. It was babied until 2016 and then neglected until I got it.

240,000 ks in the manual seems rediculous and just goes with the claim of a "sealed for life" tranny. Load of bs if you believe it. With any car you would be naive not to do it at leased every couple of years, probably at every second or third engine oil change. If not at the same time, both are degradable oils and they are working under very similar conditions of heat and friction. what would make you think ATF can outlast engine oil 20 fold??? We would put it in our engines and seal them for life if it was the case...

Regarding the DTR, it was correctly displaying the selected gear and not showing E code, so yeah.

I know ATF doesn't just up and vanish or get consumed, but the lack of a leak is reality, the parking spot I broke down in for 6 hours didn't have a mark on it.

It could be possible that when the fluid was changed last time they may have done the old replace exactly the same amount drained, rather that check the level, underfilled and it could have been just above that tipping point at which it engages. The filter could have clogged enough to prevent correct suction and build up of pressure. Long shot but possible.. car behaved the same in the morning, had to neutral drop to get it where I needed, until I topped it up.
If the fluid has been changed that much and it's clogged than you have major issues. Like @joegr put it on the rack and your likely to see the leaked fluid. I almost guarantee you it's leaking someplace.
 
pull the inspection cover on the bellhousing to see if there is fluid in the bellhousing... which would indicate a bad front pump seal.
You read my mind...this is a tough spot to see especially with that rubber seal plugged in there
 
Do the stickers that show fluid changes... specifically mention tranny fluid... or do they say oil and filter? Transmission shops are known to do engine oil changes also. THAT would line up more with the 6000 mile intervals. It might be entirely possible that the tranny fluid hasn't been changed since the LS was new.

If that's the the case... the tranny fluid in your LS could be 18 years old... which could explain the low level and working better when topped off.

A couple decades back... I used to do tranny fluid and filter every 30k miles. Had no problems... and this was back before synthetic oils were used.

I have done my LS tranny fluid and filter every 60k miles... and its still going at almost 225k miles.

6000 mile tranny fluid changes are nothing but a waste of resources.
 
Oil in the crankcase is exposed to blowby from the cylinders. This adds considerable contamination to it. Oil in the transmission is not exposed to this at all. Oil in the engine is also exposed to greater heat than the transmission fluid. A transmission is not an engine.
I personally change mine about every 75K miles, but that may be overkill. The traditional fluid change duration was 30K miles. This was for the non-synthetic fluid, and instead of a complete exchange, it was a change of only 1/3 or so of the total fluid. I have seen and do know of transmissions that have gone well over 150K miles without fluid changes, but I don't recommend that either.

Suit yourself if you want to change the fluid every 6K miles or every 18K miles or whatever. Your servo bores will still wear out just as soon as with the longer intervals. Valve body springs will still dissolve at the same rate, and so on...
 
Do the stickers that show fluid changes... specifically mention tranny fluid... or do they say oil and filter? Transmission shops are known to do engine oil changes also. THAT would line up more with the 6000 mile intervals. It might be entirely possible that the tranny fluid hasn't been changed since the LS was new.

If that's the the case... the tranny fluid in your LS could be 18 years old... which could explain the low level and working better when topped off.

This explains it ^^^^^^
 

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